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View Full Version : Worried about Isabelle........



jennapea
20th March 2006, 02:19 PM
She has been fully potty trained for several months. Last week she started peeing in the house. I thought it may have something to do with her going into heat. Well now she is peeing CONSTANTLY. Seems to even be straining just to pee. The odor is a very strong tuna type of smell. We are getting her into the vet today. Worried it could be a bladder or kidney problem. Anyone experienced this before? I'm very worried about her. She's been eating and drinking like normal. Nothing else suggests she's sick or not feeling well. :cry:

Harry & Heidi's mom
20th March 2006, 02:20 PM
oh poor baby, sounds like a urine infection
sending big hugs to her

Karlin
20th March 2006, 02:50 PM
Sounds like either a urine or kidney infection. She'll feel better once she's seen the vet!

jennapea
20th March 2006, 02:55 PM
You both really reassured me this could be something easily fixed. I feel horrible now at the number of times we yelled "No No" at her and placed her outside. We'll see what happens at the vet. It never occurred to me the last few days she might have an infection. We only noticed yesterday when we met the breeders and she must have tinkled at least 15 times in 2 hours. The breeder mentioned maybe there was a kidney problem. It should have occurred to me there could be a problem when she was only peeing inside and not pooping inside and how often she was doing it. My stomach really hurts. :cry:

rory
20th March 2006, 03:05 PM
Most likely a bladder infection. Rod bacteria from the smell of it. ;)

She'll feel better with some antibiotics. Poor girl! :(

jennapea
20th March 2006, 03:23 PM
Here is my update. Shawn called the vet. They wanted a urine sample. Shawn said "how in the heck to I get a urine sample when she so small and short I can't get something under her". Receptionist spoke with the vet. Apparently the sample wouldn't do much good since she's in heat and there would be droppings of blood in her urine from that. SO, they just told him to come in and they'd give him antibiotics. I will keep you posted in the next couple days....... Thanks all! I LOVE THIS BOARD!!!!!! :D

Karlin
20th March 2006, 03:36 PM
Just a general comment: My vets give out a small syringe and then you have the dog pee on a hard surface like a floor or concrete. Then it is easy to suck up a sample of the urine and it stays in the syringe due to the vacuum crated. You pop it in a bag they provide and drop it in to them. I suppose it can get contaminated but probably not by anything that affects a culture for an infection. With a female you can often sneak a soup ladle under them or a small plate or cup.

Glad she'll get the antibiotics; sounds like you have your diagnosis from the board!
:)

jennapea
20th March 2006, 04:28 PM
Do any of you experts out there know if there is something we could have done to avoid this? I don't want her to have to go through this again. :( I just can't figure out how she would have wound up with an infection.

rory
20th March 2006, 04:57 PM
I don't think there's anything you did or could have done. I feel like it's not uncommon in a dog following estrus??? Seems like all that discharge from her heat cycle and licking and do you have diaper/panties on her? That might cause it because you're holding all that material up close to her and creating a nice warm environment for bacteria growth right next to their urethra. I dunno. Never had a dog in estrus (heat). ;)

It has a lot to do w/ anatomy of the female, just like us. Shorter tract - easier for stuff to go the wrong way and end up in the bladder and cause infection. It's good yoou caught it quick. It's important to recognize the signs of a UTI so you can treat it quick and get the dog out of discomfort and avoid ascending kidney infections.

Linda
20th March 2006, 09:58 PM
Kat

Please, please keep us posted about her.
Plus she has to deal with the 2 new ones on board at the same time.

jennapea
20th March 2006, 10:24 PM
Kat

Please, please keep us posted about her.
Plus she has to deal with the 2 new ones on board at the same time.

Yes, I would have thought that was the problem, other than it started a few days before they got there. I also thought the constant peeing could have been from her being in heat, but vet said no. He said about the same thing Rory did about infections, bacteria, etc. We will have her spayed 2 months after this heat and hopefully never have to deal with this again. Poor baby. :cry: I should have known when she'd squat for a minute straight, but only a little bit came out. :oops:

Davy
20th March 2006, 10:26 PM
Just a general comment: My vets give out a small syringe and then you have the dog pee on a hard surface like a floor or concrete. Then it is easy to suck up a sample of the urine and it stays in the syringe due to the vacuum crated. You pop it in a bag they provide and drop it in to them. I suppose it can get contaminated but probably not by anything that affects a culture for an infection. With a female you can often sneak a soup ladle under them or a small plate or cup.

Having had to get the dreaded urine sample off a small female dog who was never going to let me stick anything under her while she went.

I found the easies way was to take a tray, cover it in cling film and then start the waiting game of when the dog wants to go.

As soon as they start put the dog on the tray, and then it’s much easier to collect.

You can get what is called a child syringe from a drugs store that can be used to suck up the urine then put the urine in an old but clean tablet bottle to take to the vets.

Cathy T
21st March 2006, 02:54 AM
Poor baby! Shelby had a UTI a couple of months ago. It was hard to detect because she is a "marker". My clue was how often she ran outside like she had to go now. A couple of days on antibiotics and she was fine (of course we did the whole course of antibiotics)

jennapea
21st March 2006, 02:16 PM
Well Isabelle got her third pill out of 20 today and she is doing MUCH better. She actually rang the windchimes to go outside this morning which she hasn't done in a week. AND when she was outside before she'd stop to pee every couple minutes and nothing would come out. She's not doing that as often now, so it seems it's starting to clear up. We will give the whole course of 10 days of pills, but after 3 there is already a huge improvement.
Thanks all for you caring thoughts and suggestions!! :)

Nicki
21st March 2006, 03:00 PM
Thank goodness - that's great news.

Hugs for Isabelle - glad she's feeling better :D

rory
21st March 2006, 03:02 PM
Phew!! what a relief! I'm sure you must feel so much better to see her feeling better! Definitely give her the FULL COURSE. No stopping short or she might get nasty resistent bacteria!

Karlin
21st March 2006, 03:59 PM
Giving the full course of antibiotics is important for another reason, too -- that people often stop taking or giving pills when they think they (or whoever is taking the course) looks cured of whatever ailed them. The problem is that unless the full course is followed, there's a good chance a few bacteria will survive and produce a new strain of offspring that are increasingly more resistent to the antibiotic. These will be sneezed or coughed or in some other way, introduced back into the environment. This phenomenon makes antiobiotics increasingly less effective and some now totally useless -- and is actually a cause of a serious medical crisis for humans -- because lethal illnesses like tuberculosis and malaria which could once be cured or prevented by a simple course of tablets are now increasingly and in some cases totally resistent to any antibiotic!! icon_yikes

Whether for us, our families or our pets it is really important to complete the full course of any antibiotic to make sure others continue to gain the benefit of these drugs.

jennapea
21st March 2006, 04:15 PM
I am the biggest offender of this. I NEVER finish my full course when I'm sick. I will make sure we don't forget Isabelle's though. I don't want her having to go through this again if there is anyway to avoid it. Thanks all!

Karlin
21st March 2006, 04:17 PM
There now, you have a good reason to take all your pills too, Kat!! :)

Linda
21st March 2006, 04:23 PM
Kat
I am guilty of this too, but even more so my kids.
If I am not literally standing watching them swallow the pill, they won't take it once they start feeling better.
I am going to have them read Karlin's post.
My son suffers from really bad allergies, he takes the medication for
a week once feeling better stops, and within a week he is back to square one. :cry:

Karlin
21st March 2006, 05:22 PM
Two items. This is from the UK's Dept of Health fact sheet on antibiotic resistence. It advises:


Q
If I am prescribed antibiotics, should I stop taking them as soon as I begin to feel better?

A
No. Take them as prescribed and finish the course, unless your doctor or pharmacist advises otherwise. Antibiotic resistance is more likely to develop if antibiotics are taken intermittently, for example, just when you remember, or in too low a dose.



Here's the link to the whole article, which also addresses overprescribing of antibiotics, the other cause of the resistence problem:

http://www.dh.gov.uk/PolicyAndGuidance/HealthAndSocialCareTopics/AntibioticResistance/AntibioticResistanceFAQ/fs/en?CONTENT_ID=4039260&chk=hhYgty


And here's a recent article on the seriousness of this problem for public health:


EU addresses deadly threat of rising resistance to antibiotics

By James Kanter International Herald Tribune

FRIDAY, MARCH 17, 2006



PARIS In a major challenge to doctors and drug manufacturers, European Union officials will tackle a looming public health crisis on Friday as options for treating for common ailments like pneumonia and bronchitis disappear after decades of overprescribing of antibiotic drugs.

"We know that there is growing concern among the public about rising rates of antibiotic resistance," said Janez Potocnik, the EU science and research commissioner, who will present the plan.

The initiative represents a challenge to doctors and pharmacists, who often dispense antibiotics to people with viral illnesses rather than bacterial infections, giving bacteria plentiful opportunities to build up defenses.

The initiative also could represent a challenge to the makers of generic antibiotics, which have come to dominate the market and could have their sales eroded if the EU campaign takes hold.

EU officials will use €11.5 million, or $13.9 million, to jump-start a network, dubbed Grace. It will link medical and science faculties in nine countries, which will focus on training for health care workers, monitoring resistance and developing tests to establish patients' suitability for drugs to treat pneumonia and bronchitis.

A key element of the project, EU officials said, will be to encourage a new crop of companies to develop fast and affordable kits for doctors so they can identify patients who would benefit from drugs, and withhold drugs from those who are unsuited to treatment.

If successful, the EU aims to promote testing and perform trials on drugs for a wider range of emerging infectious diseases, which could include diseases like avian influenza, or bird flu.

Leaders of the Grace project said an outbreak of pandemic bird flu would be likely to trigger even heavier consumption of antibiotics.
Those antibiotics would probably do little to help patients with the virus but would create even more resistant strains of bacteria, in turn making it more difficult to cure patients who have developed bacterial complications as a result of bird flu.

"A pandemic would be terrible," said Sophia Tickell, a researcher for React, a network of academics and researchers based in Sweden. "Think how much worse it would be if effective new antibiotics were not available for hospitalized patients."

But there are few signs that new medicines are coming. Adding to the urgency of the EU campaign is the near- empty pipeline of new, resistance-free antibiotic medicines.

Since the 1970s, drug companies seeking to improve their bottom lines have redirected research and development away from antibiotics, which are used for short-term illnesses like bronchitis and pneumonia, and into far more lucrative drugs to treat chronic disorders like depression and diabetes.

Other factors also reduce the incentives for new antibiotic breakthroughs: Even if there were new drugs, analysts say, doctors would still prescribe generic copies of older antibiotics first, because they are cheap and plentiful.

The economics of antibiotics are "making it difficult for new antibiotics to warrant the premium price they need to generate a return on investment," Stewart Adkins of Lehman Brothers in London said.

So rather than depending on industry to develop new, resistance-free medicines to keep Europeans healthy, the EU authorities now are seeking to reduce overall use of antibiotics to stop the current elevated levels of resistance from rising .

"We need diagnostics, we need rapid molecular tests that give us results in one or two hours," said Herman Goossens, the leader of the EU project and a professor at the University of Antwerp in Belgium.
Goossens said it would be important for governments in Europe to reimburse for tests to ensure that diagnostics companies find a market for their products.

Drug companies spend billions on trials and promotions of new drugs but spend relatively little on developing such tests, knowing that they could reduce overall drug consumption.

Goossens also favors public campaigns to raise awareness of the problem. In Belgium, prescriptions of some antibiotics have fallen up to 8 percent since 2000, when the Belgian authorities started a televised awareness campaign, according to Goossens.

React said that in some European countries 50 percent of the tests carried out on bacteria from patients indicated that the antibiotic methicillin had no effect on Staphylococci, the most common infection in hospitals, showing how even people suffering from nonbacterial illnesses can be in grave danger when antibiotic resistance takes hold.

Clinicians have blamed the spread of hospital "superbugs" for the deaths of as many as 3,000 people each year in Belgium and as many as 15,000 people each year in Britain.

rory
21st March 2006, 10:46 PM
That's what I meant. But I wrote "resident" instead of resistent. :oops:

Karlin
21st March 2006, 11:03 PM
:lol: :lol: Well it made sense boths ways!

jennapea
22nd March 2006, 03:06 PM
:lol: :lol: Well it made sense boths ways!

I knew was you were saying Rory! :D

judy
23rd March 2006, 06:46 AM
You both really reassured me this could be something easily fixed. I feel horrible now at the number of times we yelled "No No" at her and placed her outside. We'll see what happens at the vet. It never occurred to me the last few days she might have an infection. We only noticed yesterday when we met the breeders and she must have tinkled at least 15 times in 2 hours. The breeder mentioned maybe there was a kidney problem. It should have occurred to me there could be a problem when she was only peeing inside and not pooping inside and how often she was doing it. My stomach really hurts. :cry:

Kat--when i read your first post, i was thinking deja vu, this sounds like what happened with my cat, many years ago. She was maybe 2 years old, and always had been catbox trained, she's an indoor cate. We moved to a new place and there were cats in our backyard. We let one inside. Soon after that, Fluffy started peeing in unfortunate places, i had to throw the bean bag chair away for example. The odor was so strong.

I was really upset. I believed that after we let the other cat in, Fluffy now felt that she must mark her territory. :oops: This went on for some months. icon_blshing she peed on everything. i was really angry at her. Finally, i called a cat psychologist. I was going to have her treated by a behaviorist. I talked to two of them on the phone. One of them said they'd be happy to work with her, but first i was required to take her to a vet, just to make sure there was not a medical cause.

At the vet, i put Fluffy up on the table and the vet put some kind of catheter or probe into her bladder and made her pee, and out of her, on the silver table, came a puddle of blood.

icon_oops

Boy was i stupid. I felt like poo. what an idiot i was . Duh Duh Duh. Fluffy had a bladder infection. My furniture smelled like urine, i had yelled at Fluffy, felt victimized, meanwhile, Fluffy was suffering and i couldn't think beyond my theory.

Giving Fluffy antibiotics was a nightmare. Apparently the medicine, liquid, tasted very bad, and Fluffy would scream like a banshee and claw and fight like her life was at stake to avoid taking the meds. In the beginning she took them, but once she caught on that we were torturing her, she did her best to refuse. The whole thing was a very bad ordeal made much worse by my ignorance.

for UTI prevention and treatment i recommend D-mannose. It's a sugar. You can mix it in water and use a syringe to squirt it into their mouth, and it tastes good. There are different brands of it. You can give it during and after menstruation, or any other event that raises the risk of infection. It's effective for prevention.

judy
23rd March 2006, 06:51 AM
....The problem is that unless the full course is followed, there's a good chance a few bacteria will survive and produce a new strain of offspring that are increasingly more resistent to the antibiotic......

yes--when you think about it, in the first day or two of the medication, it's going to be the constitutionally weaker less healthy bacteria that are killed first. The stronger ones will last longer. the longer you take the meds, the more you can finally overcome the stronger ones. But if you stop after 3 or 4 days of a 10 day course, what you end up doing is getting rid of the weak members of the colony, and leaving the stronger ones to inbreed so that you create a super species, a robust medication-resistant bunch of germs. Not a good idea.