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sramirez
27th March 2006, 04:26 PM
I know I've read numerous posts on feeding raw chicken necks, but have never given them to any of my dogs. Yesterday I saw them packaged in one of our local supermarkets (that I don't usually shop) and I was tempted to buy a pkg.

How often do you feed them? Any prep involved before feeding them directly out of the package?

Thanx.

Linda
27th March 2006, 05:58 PM
Did they have the skins on them, I buy necks directly from the chicken factory and the skins are removed.

I would not give them the skins too fatty.

How old is your dog, and how big were the necks.

Dudley usually gets a neck which is about 3 to 4 inches long every
morning providing he has eated his meal the night before.

He has a tendency to hold out for the necks, he loves them.

sramirez
27th March 2006, 06:10 PM
Linda:

My two cav girls are both 8 years. Our Lhaso is 6. Sasha (my blenheim) does have a hard time chewing and chokes alot due to laryngeal collapse she had at age 5. She's had one side of her throat permanently sutured back :cry: So I would be suspicious of little bones maybe for her...

Myother two would love 'um I'm sure.

Sheri

Karlin
27th March 2006, 06:34 PM
You can just give them as they are. Ours are stripped of skin when I buy them in bulk, but I wouldn't think the skin would be a problem. I know raw advocates believe the skin is actually good for them; neck skin shouldn't be too fatty. It depends on what you are comfortable feeding and if the skin would add a lot of extra calories to an already fairly complete diet.

Linda
27th March 2006, 07:02 PM
You can just give them as they are. Ours are stripped of skin when I buy them in bulk, but I wouldn't think the skin would be a problem. I know raw advocates believe the skin is actually good for them; neck skin shouldn't be too fatty. It depends on what you are comfortable feeding and if the skin would add a lot of extra calories to an already fairly complete diet.

Our necks are skinless like I mentioned, but I would not give them
for the reason that Dudley does not need any more rump around his
roast.
As he also gets his other food on top of necks.
Just watch them, Dudley devours them but has never had any problem with them.

Karlin
27th March 2006, 07:25 PM
for the reason that Dudley does not need any more rump around his
roast.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

BTW I've seen some of the big rawfood authors describe the skin as 'natural floss' but I don't really see that!!

sramirez
27th March 2006, 09:56 PM
Omigosh Linda that was like toooooo funny :lol:

Actually, Sophie doesn't need any more fluff on her than she has either - she came to our house quite overweight (28 lbs.) so we just call her our little "munchkin" after the Wizard of Oz :lol:

We both have ruby hair and fat middles - everyone thinks we're twins!!

Sheri

Linda
27th March 2006, 11:46 PM
Omigosh Linda that was like toooooo funny :lol:

Actually, Sophie doesn't need any more fluff on her than she has either - she came to our house quite overweight (28 lbs.) so we just call her our little "munchkin" after the Wizard of Oz :lol:

We both have ruby hair and fat middles - everyone thinks we're twins!!

Sheri

Don't worry your not alone when it comes to the middles :lol: :lol: :lol:
Well I am hoping to have an all Ruby haired, should know in a few days.

We'll that's a compliment cause just look at how cute our babies are.
So you must be hot red head. ;) ;)

judy
28th March 2006, 04:25 AM
When i was a kid and i had my first dog (in the 50s and 60s), i remember people saying you must never give a dog chicken bones because they tend to splinter and the splinters will get stuck in their throats. What happened to that advice? Apparently, things have gone the other way now. Back in the day, you could give them other kinds of bones, but there was a big fear campaign against giving them chicken bones. What about other chicken bones, legs and thighs? Are they good for dogs too? Do dogs consume the whole neck bone?

jennapea
28th March 2006, 05:56 AM
Ewwwwwww! I don't think I've ever seen chicken necks in my supermarkets around here. I also don't picture myself handling them and giving them to the dogs. Doesn't that make a bloody mess?? Just asking. :shock:

yvonne
28th March 2006, 12:25 PM
Where do you get chicken necks in dublin? I've never seen any. What age should they get them. Would Holly to be young to try?? (4 months)
Thanks - Yvonne

Karlin
28th March 2006, 01:51 PM
Yvonne I get them on Moore street -- two of the butchers at least carry them -- that really large butchers near the shopping street end has them and the one directly across. I get a couple of kilos and divide them into small bags (enough for three days of meals) and freeze. Four months is fine for them. You can feed a single neck as a substitute for one meal for a pup. Just keep an eye while she eats, that she crunches down the neck.

They are a little bit messy but not as messy as a marrow bone. Mine now eat them from their bowls anyway -- not on the floor -- so they don;t make much mess.

Linda
28th March 2006, 02:18 PM
Yvonne I get them on Moore street -- two of the butchers at least carry them -- that really large butchers near the shopping street end has them and the one directly across. I get a couple of kilos and divide them into small bags (enough for three days of meals) and freeze. Four months is fine for them. You can feed a single neck as a substitute for one meal for a pup. Just keep an eye while she eats, that she crunches down the neck.

They are a little bit messy but not as messy as a marrow bone. Mine now eat them from their bowls anyway -- not on the floor -- so they don;t make much mess.

Karlin

How did you manage to get them to eat them from their bowls ????
Dudley always takes them to his pillow.

Karlin
28th March 2006, 02:46 PM
Well when there are two the competition gets them to eat their food right there -- no fussing about! I don;t know, they've always just eaten them from their bowls though Leo is a slower eater and sometimes sets one on the floor before eating it -- he likes to look at it carefully first. :roll:

Nicki
5th April 2006, 08:02 PM
I haven't seen raw chicken necks in our butchers, but will ask next time I'm in.

They do have the whole carcasses {after the chicken has been jointed, breast removed etc} - I think people buy them for stock for soup. Are these any good?

Karlin
5th April 2006, 11:14 PM
Are there leg bones left or is it the body? The body and backs would be excellent! I know some feed legs with no issues, and thighs. I have always been a bit more wary of those, perhaps for no reason. I have fed thighs and legs and they've eaten those down. The backs are really good, and take them a satisfying while to eat.

Try a Chinese market; they often have necks for making soup stock. But if you are in a rural area that might not be possible! I buy necks a couple of kilos at a time from a big butchers that sells them to the eastern European and Chinese communities, for soup stock.

Nicki
6th April 2006, 12:13 PM
I think it's just the body...

"Try a Chinese market" - sadly we're about 400 miles North of anywhere here, I don't think I've even seen a Chinese person within about 100 mile raidus, and that includes the local Chinese takeaway LOL

I'll give the bodies a try though - thanks for that.

Nicki
6th April 2006, 12:14 PM
PS have you heard of/seen this book?

Raw meat diets for cats and dogs?

An Assessment of the Research and Arguments Related to the Advisability of Feeding Raw Meat-Based Diets to Cats and Dogs by James O’Heare, Ph.D.

On June 1st. 2005 DogPsych Publishing released a new book on the raw meat diet for pet cats and dogs. Previous books on the topic were written mainly by proponents of the diet and to date no book dedicated solely to this topic has been written from an objective, scientific and critical reasoning perspective. The book describes a thorough review of the literature on the topic, evaluating the advisability of such a diet. It also explores the arguments put forth by proponents in a critical manner to evaluate its validity and acceptability. This is the first book written on the topic that objectively evaluates this relatively new trend in companion animal feeding and will contribute to our understanding of how safe and effective it is relative to other diets.

I can only find it here:

http://www.crosskeysbooks.com/product_info.php?ref=278&products_id=548&affiliate_banner_id=1

I wondered whether it was worth getting as I'm trying to do my research proplerly!!

Karlin
6th April 2006, 02:00 PM
That's interesting. What is stated is true -- there are very few studies on raw diets and if you dare mention any of them to raw advocates certain types will shoot you down. It reminds me of the attitude we had to adults on ANY topic when I was a teenager. I haven't heard of this book. I'd like a neutral analysis -- not a vet set against bones entirely, nor a member of the raw religion crowd where they are ALWAYS right and have totally unscientific 'proof' to disprove whatever anyone says against raw.

There is evidence that dogs shed salmonella in their feces when fed on raw chicken in particular. So therefore that should be a consideration if there's anyone immuno-compromised in the home, or young children. What amazes me is that if you even suggest this, some raw advocates will go crazy, even though they are often the same people who would not go near a cat litter box if pregnant.

There is some known but small risk in raw beef as well. That risk is enough to keep me generally from feeding raw beef though I would give bones. I just lightly sear mince and then cool it, put it in a container, and use it as a base for their meals.

I wish there were more extensive studies on feeding raw.

Overall I feel there are very good aspects to a raw diet given with certain precautions. In particular I like giving them the bones for their teeth especially in this breed since gum disease is known to be tied to heart disease.

If you get the book I'd be interested to know what you think. I might order it myself.

Karlin
6th April 2006, 02:15 PM
OK here's some background on this guy:

http://animalconsultants.org/consultants/o_heare_james.htm
http://www.jamesoheare.com/

It sounds a bit... stretched to say the least. Note he has done a bunch of coursework at BA and Masters level but this is phrased to imply there's a degree taken whereas if you dig deeper theres only about 36 hours of work done in any of these degree courses. When I taught university level composition, my students got about 36 hours of classwork for ONE course. Also what in the world is a Post-doctoral certificate? You either have the doctorate or you don't. I assume a post-doc cert given when someone attends a class designed to maintain a cerrtain level of qualifications once one has a professional qualification, but these tend to only indicate that you've sat and listened to some lectures at a conference or in a class. My dada (a medical professor at the U of California and Standford til his retirement) has hundreds of hours of post-degree certificates as these are required in most states to maintain your medical license. These are not overly taxing.

If all he has a certificate, he is not entitled to be saying he has a PhD.

That's not to say he hasn't done his research work in his articles and isn't well qualified as a behaviouralist and so forth -- but I am always very wary of someone using degrees they don't appear to have or implying they have what they don't have. Maybe he just hasn't updated the site to reflect an actual PhD...

If someone is well qualified and has done lots of interesting work as this person appears to have done, I can never understand why they don't simply stand on the strength of what they do have.

Nicki
6th April 2006, 06:42 PM
Thanks so much for researching him Karlin - as you say, it is rather a stretch to saying he has a PhD. Bit concerning really...


Not sure whether to pay out for the book :?

I must admit it's the raw religion crowd who have put me off to some degree!! but I really do want to do something with the doglets' diet, esp. as TedBear is not a great eater.

Linda
7th April 2006, 11:48 PM
Thanks so much for researching him Karlin - as you say, it is rather a stretch to saying he has a PhD. Bit concerning really...


Not sure whether to pay out for the book :?

I must admit it's the raw religion crowd who have put me off to some degree!! but I really do want to do something with the doglets' diet, esp. as TedBear is not a great eater.

Nikki

Send Tedbear over here to me, and I will gladly give him all the
chicken necks his little heart desires. ;) ;) ;) ;) ;)

I will look for my book.

Karlin
8th April 2006, 12:10 AM
I think bringing in some raw is a great idea.

That guy seems to do a pretty good overview of existing arguments in some of his publications/articles, but as there are so few studies on feeding raw, I am wondering what it is he is using to weigh up evidence?

I suppose regarding raw chicken, I'd be keeping an eye on what happens regarding bird flu too.

Nicki
8th April 2006, 11:54 AM
I suppose regarding raw chicken, I'd be keeping an eye on what happens regarding bird flu too.

icon_yikes I always did have a great sense of timing icon_yikes


Lulu, you're not getting him away from me that easily :lol:

Nicki
8th April 2006, 12:05 PM
I did manage to get some backs yesterday - they weren't the same as the ones I'd seen before, these have more meat on them

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v510/RupertsMum/Natural%20feeding/IMG_0009.jpg

Hope no-one will be offended by the photo!

I thought they were quite reasonable, two backs with four wings included for 70 pence. I split the backs roughly in half, but they will have the wings as a separate meal.

Linda
8th April 2006, 01:12 PM
I suppose regarding raw chicken, I'd be keeping an eye on what happens regarding bird flu too.

icon_yikes I always did have a great sense of timing icon_yikes




Lulu, you're not getting him away from me that easily :lol:
That is why you should send him over here, cause I have had my necks
in the freezer for a little while. icon_yikes icon_yikes icon_yikes
No chance of him getting bird flu. icon_banana icon_banana icon_banana

Let me know when he is coming. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Come on Nikki, be a sport.
Get in the icon_drivingcar icon_drivingcar and get him to that airport.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Karlin
8th April 2006, 06:21 PM
Wow those are MEATY backs! That is basically the whole chicken body half except the breast/legs/wings isn't it? My guys would go nuts for those. I'd give half of one of those pieces (just as you are doing) for a meal -- that would be a nice meaty meal. :) Mine will take two or three wings for a meal. I tried them on whole wings following all this discussion -- they actually both ate them fairly slowly so I feel more confidence trying wings again.

Nicki
8th April 2006, 10:45 PM
ROFLOL @ Lulu - he couldn't "bear" to be parted from me :lol:

Karlin, I try not to look too closely, I'm a vegetarian, so it's all rather difficult LOL

I'm glad your two are back on the whole wings - I think if I split Rupert's up, he would then swallow them whole.

Karlin
9th April 2006, 12:00 AM
BTW very nice food styling in that pic, Nicki -- I like the pieces surrounded by dogs of different breeds. :lol:

Nicki
9th April 2006, 12:32 PM
LOL Karlin, it was a present from a friend, one of those glass ones...

There is a Cavalier at the top, you can just see the head peaking up next to the GSD - very bad arranging, should have left him visible :lol: