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Moviedust
27th April 2006, 01:45 AM
What are the ethics of a breeder pricing puppies sold on a limited registration differently? I recently communicated with a cavalier breeder who prices females three hundred dollars higher than males. When asked why, she replied that it was due to supply and demand: she always has more males than females.

I've been under the impression that ethical breeders would sell puppies of the same quality with limited registrations the same price, regardless of sex. Quality might reflect a difference in price, but sex?

What is the general concensus among breeders on this issue?

Karlin
27th April 2006, 02:00 AM
Curious. I have often seen price differences in sexes though -- this would be common enough in the UK and Ireland with some breeders. I don't know why there's the difference though. Usually it is males priced higher. Maybe that is more the questionable breeders; I don't understand the reasoning behind it.

I suppose if she is using market pressure to encourage people to opt for what she has in supply -- eg males -- that's one way of nudging people to take the boys. icon_nwunsure

I always think it is odd that so many prefer females. Both sexes to me seem fairly similar. I love having boys, they are so loving and adorable. I'd consider another boy as a third dog, except people generally say to make the third a girl to reduce possible chances of friction. I like girls too; I just love my boys though! :lol:

Moviedust
27th April 2006, 02:16 AM
I find it curious, too. Especially since these are prices for pups that arent even born, or even conceived! So there's really no way that she could know if she would have more boys than girls.

I have heard of some less-than-ethical breeders pricing females higher, but generally they dont follow up on whether or not she's spayed. I've also heard of breeders selling the same dog at a different price depending on the type of contract the buyers wants; you pay more for breeding rights.

That's why this breeder's pricing seems so confusing. I consider pricing as one cue to look for in an ethical breeder, but this breeder's logic doesnt connect with me.

WoodHaven
27th April 2006, 02:27 AM
I find it curious, too. Especially since these are prices for pups that arent even born, or even conceived! So there's really no way that she could know if she would have more boys than girls.

I have heard of some less-than-ethical breeders pricing females higher, but generally they dont follow up on whether or not she's spayed.

There are some breeders who try to charge more to be able to register the dog in the AKC. That is unethical to charge more for AKC papers than without. It isn't that expensive either. I have seen some people try to charge significantly more for papers. It is 25USD for the litter plus 4 dollars per pup for online registration of a litter (for anyone who wants to know). Sandy

Karlin
27th April 2006, 02:33 AM
Sandy, makes you wonder if you are getting real papers, doesn't it? Like they have only one bitch perhaps whose pups could qualify for proper registration so they pick a random puppy and give it the papers if you will pay more. Presumably so you too can start to breed and produce AKC registered puppies... :x

Do they have DNA requirements for registration at all in the US? I thought this was being introduced. The IKC has it as a goal here, but can't imagine that will happen anytime soon. All puppies must now be microchipped with breeder info however if registered. This means US buyers of Irish dogs supposedly with IKC registration could scan the pup to see if it is actually chipped (though the scanner would need to be ISO standard; most US sdcanners can't read European chips). The majority of Irish puppy mill dogs have fake papers, the ISPCA here told me.

WoodHaven
27th April 2006, 02:41 AM
Sandy, makes you wonder if you are getting real papers, doesn't it? Like they have only one bitch perhaps whose pups could qualify for proper registration so they pick a random puppy and give it the papers if you will pay more. Presumably so you too can start to breed and produce AKC registered puppies... :x

Do they have DNA requirements for registration at all in the US? I thought this was being introduced. The IKC has it as a goal here, but can't imagine that will happen anytime soon. All puppies must now be microchipped with breeder info however if registered. This means US buyers of Irish dogs supposedly with IKC registration could scan the pup to see if it is actually chipped (though the scanner would need to be ISO standard; most US sdcanners can't read European chips). The majority of Irish puppy mill dogs have fake papers, the ISPCA here told me.

ALL CKCSC,USA registered breeding sires and dams have to be DNA'd(they won't register a litter without the DNA paperwork). So far in the AKC- If you have three or more litters/year or 7 litters in a lifetime must have DNA on record. Papers are only as good as the breeders word and honor. I have heard of one breeder (different breed) who had two males and she wasn't sure of the sire of her litter-- so she was going to guess. This is beyond unethical. If in doubt you can have the litter DNA'd to find the correct sire. (you can have more than one sire per litter) Sandy

Claire
27th April 2006, 09:53 AM
The only difference between the males and females is 50.00 from our breeder.

Gillian
27th April 2006, 12:44 PM
In Malta the females are more expensive than the males too. :?

Harry & Heidi's mom
27th April 2006, 01:26 PM
i always thought that breeders charged more for females as you "could" breed from them :?

Claire
27th April 2006, 01:31 PM
On our purchase receipt, it states not for export and not for breeding..

Harry & Heidi's mom
27th April 2006, 01:46 PM
i understand breeders placing restrictions on papers BUT that won't stop people from breeding pups and selling them on as unregistered pedigree pups, you see them alot on the free ad papers... :(

Karlin
27th April 2006, 03:00 PM
Every time I see this thread I keep thinking some spammer has posted a pornographic link... :shock: :lol:

sarahg
27th April 2006, 03:44 PM
:rotfl:

Moviedust
27th April 2006, 05:16 PM
icon_blshing
Oh my... that never even occurred to me when I made the subject line!

Fi
3rd May 2006, 12:42 PM
When i bought Max i had to pay an extra €100 for him then her females, the resoning she told me was ..... "that people who buy males can use them a shires and make money from them without the hassle of breading."

Claire
3rd May 2006, 03:01 PM
Hi Fi - haven't seen you here in ages.... how's your pooches?

WoodHaven
3rd May 2006, 03:35 PM
All my pets are sold as companions, so I can't see charging extra for females (or males). Sandy

Fi
3rd May 2006, 06:06 PM
Hi Claire, thanks for asking.. i've had Max neutered and he as i was told here suffered nothing at all, i was surprised as to how they did the operation!!!

Lady has had her fair share of problems, they didnt vaccinate her against kennel cough as they said she didnt need it as i would never be putting her in a kennel...... however weeks later she developed a cough they told me was a touch of kennel cough, she was medicated and when 3 rounds of antibiotics didnt work, they refered her to UCD......

they only told me she had an infection and she had to have a lung wash... however when i was sent the papers to sign for the insurance the vet had written phneumonia, i was so upset that no one had told me how serious this illness was......

but she is doing well and scedualed for her second lung wash next week...

sorry Karlin know this should be in another thread....

Cloe went into heat early, caused a few problems for us but all ok now.

great catching up on all the news.

Karlin
3rd May 2006, 06:32 PM
Hi Fi, this is fine here, threads often go off in other directions! :lol:

One small issue; I need you to resize your avatar pic as I no longer can automatically resize as before. There are directions on how to do this and reasons why here:

http://www.cavaliertalk.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=1671

Thanks!

Karlin