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Karlin
13th May 2006, 07:03 PM
Nicki remember you were asking about that book that offered an analysis of various diets? I just realised Monica Segal who is extremely well qualified in nutrition and animal science, and well respected has written such a book:

http://www.monicasegal.com/catalog/product.php?cPath=25&products_id=66

And it offers various diet menus etc. I bet this might be just what you are looking for. And she has cavaliers -- you may remember she joined the Chiari list for a while and gave some advice on feeding SM dogs.

I am going to order this myself. I have several of the raw meaty bones diet books, but I have moved away from RMBs as a main diet to more of a dietary supplement and am very interested in a considered look at nutritional needs and cooked diets and supplementing commercial diets. :)

Nicki
14th May 2006, 06:14 PM
THanks Karlin..yes in the meantime I have bought this too!! I found it on

http://www.naturalpetcare.co.uk/index.htm

who were very quick and efficient with the delivery.

The book is excellent, I'm still reading it but very impressed. She also has an Yahoo list

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/K9Kitchen/


I too have been put off feeding the bones whole, I contacted my homoeopathic supplier and this was her reply:

'Give a dog a bone' diet. The trouble is that while the theory is fine, the 'natural ' diet we give based on his book is no longer the natural diet for the domesticated dog and there is so much bacteria in the raw foods these days the dogs are at risk. I would never use the diet for my dogs. I do know many many people that have changed to it and sworn by it. Coats the best they have ever seen, the skin clears the dog is full of energy, then after a few weeks, months or even a few years the old problems return showing the dog has a week immune system and is simply now sensitive to the ingredients in the once new diet. I also know of several dogs who have died from perforated gut due to eating raw chicken wings and other bones. Other dogs have been on the diet all their lives and done well on it into old age. Weigh up the pros and cons and make your decision. As a pet nutrition counsellor I would never recommend it knowing dogs can die on it. It is a personal choice. Like everything it works for some and not for others.


I don't want this to start a heated discussion, I just wanted to explain why I've decided not to feed whole bones - there are risks with kibble too and you have to wiegh everything up and make your own decision.

Karlin
15th May 2006, 07:27 PM
I really appreciate your post and her view. Can I include it in my raw feeding section in the Library? I think it gives some important caveats that people do need to consider. I think many of us dismiss what our vets think as they so often oppose a raw bone diet. But a homeopathisd practitioner who has a strong interest in diet offers a good alternative and informed viewpoint.

I think as far as bones go, I will prefer larger marrow bones or chicken necks which are small and very crunchable and will also have another think of even that approach given your homeopath's response to you. I've been wary of wings since Jaspar threw up an undigested wing hours later with a sharp cracked bone in the middle of it -- they definitely don;t just digest if they get stuck and in restrospect I feel he probably risked a blockage or perforation from that wing, which hadn't budged from his stomach. I feel lucky he eventually threw it up but he was very uncomfortable for about 3-4 hours. I was on the verge of calling an emergency vet at 4 am when up it came and he was fine then. :yikes Now I wish I'd taken a picture of that bone as proof that bones do not necessarily get pulverised.

You should post your homeopath's opinion to Cav Connection's diet section as it is a useful additional point of consideration which people can either accept, take on board, or reject.

Karlin
15th May 2006, 07:31 PM
I must say I also think statements that just a couple of raw meaty bones weekly would prevent tartar and gum disease are very misleading.

Leo regularly has such a diet and has bad tartar build up. There's good evidence that this may be a genetic predisposition and the issue may be more genes than diet. Certainly while Leo has problems, Jaspar doesn't. They are closely related dogs fed the same diet. Looks like Leo got a bad roll of the dice, teethwise. :|

Nicki
16th May 2006, 11:18 PM
I'll double check with her Karlin but I don't think it will be a problem, she will just be keen for the info to be out there.

I know what you mean about teeth - have you tried using Fragaria, the homoeopathic remedy? It definitely softens the tartar and makes it much easier to remove - I also think it helps stop the buildup.

Will look out the dosage info for you.

I get my remedies from www.gentletouchremedies.co. uk

Chris is no longer consulting...she's too busy sadly..but does supply remedies at very good prices.

I am extremely grateful to her as I don't think we'd still have Rupert without her help and support.

Chris also makes up remedies from many conventional drugs...these can be given instead of conventional drugs...eg Fillipa was on a remedy made from Propolin which resolved her incontinence issues. OR they can be given with the conventional drugs to greatly reduce side effects.

TedBear has remedies made from the Gabapentin and Prednisolone - when he started on just the drugs, he was very quiet and his appetite notiecably increased. Within 24 hrs of starting the remedies, he was feeling much better and more active, sadly his appetite has also diminshed {he's not a great eater, so this was actually a bonus! - and yes he is 100% Cavalier LOL}