PDA

View Full Version : Cavalier Color Question...



jeni
23rd May 2006, 02:55 PM
I have a question about Cavalier colors and I am hoping that someone can help me out. A friend of mine asked me this the other day and I wasn't sure how to answer it... h*lp
She knows someone who has a blenheim male dog. He came from a litter of 4 in which 2 were blenheim, and 2 were tri. But both of his parents were blenheim.
Now if this blenhiem boy was bred with another blenhiem girl, could it be possible that he could have tri puppies like his parents did? I have looked at the color charts and it doesn't show that two blenheims could have tri puppies. Any input on this is greatly appreciated :thnx:

Rippleoak
23rd May 2006, 02:59 PM
She knows someone who has a blenheim male dog. He came from a litter of 4 in which 2 were blenheim, and 2 were tri. But both of his parents were blenheim.

I have looked at the color charts and it doesn't show that two blenheims could have tri puppies. Any input on this is greatly appreciated :thnx:

You are right. It is not possible to have a Tri puppy out of two blenheim parents.

jeni
23rd May 2006, 03:03 PM
That is what I thought... but then I thought it might be some gene that they could carry. Sounds like she might have snuck off with another boy dog when no one was looking... icon_blshing

Karlin
23rd May 2006, 07:21 PM
One possibility is that the bitch was not closely watched. A bitch can be impregnated by more than one male and carry puppies from more than one father as a result.

WoodHaven
23rd May 2006, 08:00 PM
A blenheim is a double recessive (red and parti). You can't hide the black. You can breed two tris (if one or both isn't dominant) and get all blenheims. I've seen pedigrees (that are wrong) that have two blenheims producing a ruby. Sandy

Gillian
23rd May 2006, 10:35 PM
Can someone tell me what colours you can have if you breed a Black and Tan with a Ruby. Is it only Black and Tan and Ruby or are there other possibilities. Our breeder has bred a Black and Tan with a Ruby,puppies are due beginning June. Just wondering about the colour.
Thanks.
Gillian

WoodHaven
23rd May 2006, 10:40 PM
Depends if the wholecolors carry for parti (is the black and tan dominant??) Clear as mud--- The easiest sure thing - you can take it to the bank is blen x blen = blen. Sandy

P.S. There is a color chart around here somewhere-- with cute lil cavaliers

jeni
11th July 2006, 10:40 PM
You guys are going to shoot me for asking this again :sl*p: please forgive me because I am learning still... but from asking on here... is probably not possible to have a tri in a litter from two blen parents... I have also looked at several color charts and it confirms that 2 blen have blen puppies.
I have a book: "Cavalier King Charles Spaniels", a Complete Pet Owner's Manual. By: D. Caroline Colie, Ph.D
It states in predicting coat color that a red parti X red parti = red parti and bl/tan parti. I have never personally seen this happen but I am wondering if anyone has or if it is possible??? :flwr: Please excuse for asking but I am really curious about this...
Thank you in advance- :huh:

WoodHaven
11th July 2006, 10:51 PM
That is a mistake in the book. I made the same mistake 5 years ago of quoting that book. I really like that book. Sandy

jeni
11th July 2006, 10:55 PM
I figured there would be an explanation... I love that book also. There are some of the most beautiful pictures of Cavaliers in that book. :D

Karlin
11th July 2006, 11:21 PM
I always recommend it but do note to people the colour charts are wrong. There are correct colour charts linked to it the Library section.

Roxanne
11th July 2006, 11:57 PM
Since we are talking about color possibilities ...has anyone heard of breeding a blenheim to a Ruby ? If so wouldnt you get "Ruby's" with alot of white ?? or would they be blenheims ??

Maxxs_Mummy
12th July 2006, 12:00 AM
I've got a good book with a colour chart in it upstairs but hubby is snoring and I don't want to disturb him as he was up at 4am.

I'll have a look and post all the colour matches tomorrow :D

WoodHaven
12th July 2006, 12:15 AM
Since we are talking about color possibilities ...has anyone heard of breeding a blenheim to a Ruby ? If so wouldnt you get "Ruby's" with alot of white ?? or would they be blenheims ??

You can breed wholecolors to partis and get good results.
There are genes that dictate whether the dog is a heavily marked blenheim or a ruby with a bit of white. Somebody on this board has black and tan that has a parti sire . icon_whistling Sandy

Karlin
12th July 2006, 12:24 AM
Hi Roxanne; you need to swap your sig pic over to the avatar slot over here. :)

The colour chart is here:

http://www.fckc.com/sante-genetique.html

It is pretty easy to follow though is in French; 'parfois' means sometimes and 'les 4 coleurs sont possible' is all four colours are possible.

I understand that breeding partis to wholecolours does produce dogs more likely to be mismarked (eg higher incidence of white on rubies and B&Ts) but on the other hand introduces more genetic diversity.

WoodHaven
12th July 2006, 12:57 AM
Most people would agree that AKC CH Turretbank Samson is a lovely ruby-- His sire is Keyingham Christian M - ( Blenheim ) Sandy

molly
12th July 2006, 03:13 PM
[quote="WoodHaven
Somebody on this board has black and tan that has a parti sire . icon_whistling Sandy[/quote]

Bet that's me that Sandy meant. My Casey has a B/T dam and a tri sire (champion). I suspect that the breeder had an oooops litter. Anyway, my B/T has a white streaked chest instead of brown. He has the most gorgeous full coat and he is only 11 mos. old. On his papers, the breeder had him marked as tri. Is that correct because of the white? His price was alittle less because of the mismarkings. He was the most mischevious pup and my DH fell in love with him. So he came home with us that day!

WoodHaven
12th July 2006, 03:22 PM
Bet that's me that Sandy meant. My Casey has a B/T dam and a tri sire (champion). I suspect that the breeder had an oooops litter. Anyway, my B/T has a white streaked chest instead of brown. He has the most gorgeous full coat and he is only 11 mos. old. On his papers, the breeder had him marked as tri. Is that correct because of the white? His price was alittle less because of the mismarkings. He was the most mischevious pup and my DH fell in love with him. So he came home with us that day!

OK-- two(at least- smile) of our list members have a black and tan with a parti sire.
My ruby boy has a blen sire and he is beautiful-- and he has a strawberry colored chin (no white). His ruby coloring is gorgeous. Sometimes when breeders breed whole to parti, they are trying to bring in traits- and they are planning a couple of generations to get what they want. Sandy

Maxxs_Mummy
13th July 2006, 08:32 PM
I have scanned in the pages from my book that contain the colour prediction info. If you can't read it then PM me your email address and I'll email it to you.


http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b5/maxxs_mummy/Colourchart.jpg

I haven't resized as I want you all to be able to read it !!!!


Karlin, if it's too big then feel free to remove the image and just put the link up!!!!! :flwr:

Also, this is from a very old book that I have so may be out of date :lol:

Cavalier King Charles Spaniels by D Caroline Coile Ph.D. Barrons ISBN 0-7641-0227-3

Cinder
13th July 2006, 08:47 PM
Molly,

Cinder is registered as a Black/Tan despite the white on his chest. He has a brother "Rocky Road" who is just about identical (just a lil smaller fella) who also has a white streak on the tummy but still registered as a Black/Tan. I have no idea how these things work....but interesting that our guys are considered different colorations considering they look so much the same :)

Cinder's dam was a Blenheim and his sire was Black/Tan tho.

-Bonnie

molly
14th July 2006, 12:21 AM
Bonnie, thanks for the info on your dogs. I am going to call the breeder to see if she made a mistake. The AKC papers ask for color and the choice that was marked was definately B/T/W (or Tri). Interesting that yours are still B/T. Your cinder's coloring is the same as my Casey too.

Roxanne
14th July 2006, 01:48 AM
Molly, I would think Casey should def be a B&T ...... it 's just like a ruby with a bit of white ....still a Ruby ;)

Roxanne
14th July 2006, 01:50 AM
OK So this is very interesing ....... I thought that it may be shunned upon to breed a blenheim and Ruby ..... but I guess maybe not ?? Looks like there is some pretty good success tories out there . I guess it would depend on which Blen and which Ruby to know whether the breeder would get alot of mismarks ??