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finn
19th June 2006, 08:46 PM
These heartbreaking pics are of Ger's niece's cav pup Daisy who was attacked by an older dog. Her jaw was broken after the adult dog attacked her and luckily the vet managed to operate and wire it back together. She's on the mend now but feeling very sorry for herself and couldn't even make it to the pheonix park outing even though her sister Princess, also pictured here, made it along. I suppose, I just wanted everyone to see the poor little girl because it reminds you how fragile they are as puppies and how seemingly well balanced adult dogs can get very narky when puppies get playful.

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e238/finnie78/P1010197.jpg

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e238/finnie78/P1010188.jpg

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e238/finnie78/P1010194.jpg

molly
19th June 2006, 09:58 PM
Ohhhh poor Daisy! Sure hope she will be OK. Both your dogs are so cute.

What happened to your Daisy is why I am afraid to go our local dog park with all the big dogs there!

Karlin
19th June 2006, 10:39 PM
Poor little thing. Hope she is well on the mend now.

It's a good warning to keep in mind, as some adults can be really unpredictable with puppies and also, some big dogs can accidentally harm a smaller dog or especially a puppy in play. Big breed puppies are particularly unpredictable in that way. They usually don't mean to, but they can badly hurt a small dog or puppy. I'm always a bit careful around large dogs myself especially if I don't know the dog.

Mary
20th June 2006, 01:48 AM
Poor Daisy. Hope she is not in too much pain.

This reminds me of a year ago Easter when I was living out west and the neighbor's pit bull jumped a 6 foot fence and another 4 foot fence and then attacked my little ruby girl Annie. It was so horrible. Finally the neighbor was able to corral his dog. I shook and Annie shook for a long time after that. No serious injuries but she did have bites/bruises all over her body and had to have IV antibiotics. Took awhile before she seemed her old self and there are still moments where I can see the fear is still there.

Cathy T
20th June 2006, 02:16 AM
Poor baby. She looks so out of it. So glad she is okay though.

And thanks for the reminder.

Mary, I remember when that happened. How scary!

Cathy T
20th June 2006, 02:19 AM
Just to clarify....it was a Cavalier who attacked her? What was their relationship. I'm just curious and am interested in more info. This is really scary.

Jen
20th June 2006, 04:54 AM
Poor Daisy. Hope she is not in too much pain.

This reminds me of a year ago Easter when I was living out west and the neighbor's pit bull jumped a 6 foot fence and another 4 foot fence and then attacked my little ruby girl Annie. It was so horrible. Finally the neighbor was able to corral his dog. I shook and Annie shook for a long time after that. No serious injuries but she did have bites/bruises all over her body and had to have IV antibiotics. Took awhile before she seemed her old self and there are still moments where I can see the fear is still there.

I remember this! I was horrified when I read that, how scary! I'm always leary of larger dogs, I'm afraid the prey instinct will kick in when they see small dogs running, etc.

judy
20th June 2006, 05:30 AM
poor little daisy!

thank you for posting this wake up call.

Zack is really friendly at the dog park, he goes up to every dog there, wagging his tail, and checking them out, he is quick to lay down on his back in submission if he picks up a certain vibe, but he would most like to sniff their butts and to play. there's never been a problem, sometimes bigger dogs get too rough, but then it quickly dies down.

but a couple of weeks ago, there was a man there with two big yellow labs, and another dog, the man was very responsible, he was going around cleaning up poop that other owners had left behind. We were chatting about vets and things, and he told me that he just finished paying a $300 vet bill because at the dog park, his dog's teeth accidentally caught another dog's neck causing a small wound, which he paid for the treatment for.

Then, he and his wife and their dogs were leaving. He put them on leashes and was moving toward the gate. We were still chatting. These were the only dogs in the part at that moment, and Zack was playing with one of the big labs. the big dog had a ball in his mouth. I turned my attention away to speak to the man, and suddenly there was the sound of loud angry growling and snarling and barking, and that big dog was on top of Zack, they were about 10 yards away from me, then i heard Zack shrieking, and i think the man may have pulled his dog off, anyway, Zack got away and came running to where i was, at a picnic table and he was shrieking and screaming the whole way, and he continued shrieking for a pretty long time. The man came over, very concerned--he had just told me about paying that other dog's vet bill--and he was feeling Zack's body, looking for injuries.

There weren't any injuries, thank goodness, but Zack was so upset, scared, hurt, he is the gentlest little dog, he would never growl at anyone, and he is not forceful or violent when he plays, except he does this annoying thing of jumping up on other dogs, i'll bet that's what he was doing when he got attacked, anyway, he did seem emotionally traumatized. he didn't stop screaming for quite a while.

After that, he seemed ok emotionally, like his usual self, and we have been back to that and another dog park several times since then, and he's just as sociable, but having read your post, i am thinking i better keep him on the leash when we're around big dogs and keep him back from them, at least depending on the dog.

One of the dog parks has a smaller enclosure within it for smaller dogs, and we can just spend our time in there. the big dogs have big strong jaws and they can be unpredictable. The owner of the dog who attacked Zack said he thought probably his dog, a somewhat elderly lab, got fed up with Zack's playfulness and lost it. But smaller dogs can also cause injuries.

It's kind of sad because zack enjoys socializing with the dogs so much. but your post brings home the lesson that things can happen so fast, with no chance to do anything.

thank goodness daisy's injury was treatable, but the whole this was so traumatc. How old is she?

Claire
20th June 2006, 10:59 AM
Oh the poor little girl, give her hugs from me and my boys, I am so glad she is okay and it was nothing worst...... what did the owner say, did she apologise or help you by offering to pay for the vet bills..... :flwr:

finn
20th June 2006, 12:07 PM
Hi,
Just to clarify, Daisy was not attacked by a cav. It was a springer spaniel who belonged to the little girl's (daisy's owner) father. Of course he was feeling extremely guilty about the whole thing because she was so distressed. The springer was just one of a few dogs he keeps for hunting and had never attacked before. They were all playing together in the garden for a while, enjoying a really sunny day. I reckon daisy bit his ear or something and annoyed him. I know when my own cav star visited the puppies, I heard her growl for probably the first time in her life. Puppies can just be very annoying to dogs who aren't used to them. Needless to say, the springer who attacked daisy has been given to another home without small dogs or children because he can't be trusted now.
Ger was at their house on Sunday and says Daisy seemed kinda traumatised by the whole experience. She licked every inch of his face and was whining in his ear as if to tell him what had happened to her. Plus she follows the mum of the house around 24/7 afraid to let her out of her sight.

joanna
20th June 2006, 02:22 PM
This is terrible, I hope it doesn't make her too nervous in the future. I met a 5 month old Min Schnauzer at the weekend who had been attacked when very young by a yorkshire terrier whicle her owner was walking her. It just goes to show that you have to be wary of some small dogs also because they can be just a viscous as a large dog.

Karlin
20th June 2006, 03:16 PM
Adult dogs will often growl at puppies and ussually this is nothing to worry about -- it is just their way of saying, "That's enough, thanks, now go behave." For puppies being around an adult can be very useful for socialising and having them learn a little discipline. But interactions always need to be carefully watched until you know the relationships between the dogs, especially so if the adult is a larger breed. That said it is really unusual for an adult to do anything that would really harm a puppy -- they may growl or even snap in annoyance but never actually touch or harm the puppy. The mother does the same with her puppies. They could not have foreseen such an outcome and this must be so difficult for them.

The father in this family sounds very responsible -- it must have been hard to give up one of his dogs and he took a very tough decision in rehoming. But that is probably the wisest choice under the circumstances.

Finn it would be good for them to give Daisy the opportunity of gently socialising with trustworthy older dogs, either other dogs in the house, Star or other gentle cavaliers. What they don't want is the fear to permanently etch itself into this puppy's mind so that she is always afraid of adults.


It just goes to show that you have to be wary of some small dogs also because they can be just a viscous as a large dog.

Very true, they can often be MORE vicious! It's just that given their size, they tend to do less damage.

Jen
20th June 2006, 03:17 PM
Hi,
Just to clarify, Daisy was not attacked by a cav. It was a springer spaniel who belonged to the little girl's (daisy's owner) father. Of course he was feeling extremely guilty about the whole thing because she was so distressed. The springer was just one of a few dogs he keeps for hunting and had never attacked before. They were all playing together in the garden for a while, enjoying a really sunny day. I reckon daisy bit his ear or something and annoyed him. I know when my own cav star visited the puppies, I heard her growl for probably the first time in her life. Puppies can just be very annoying to dogs who aren't used to them. Needless to say, the springer who attacked daisy has been given to another home without small dogs or children because he can't be trusted now.
Ger was at their house on Sunday and says Daisy seemed kinda traumatised by the whole experience. She licked every inch of his face and was whining in his ear as if to tell him what had happened to her. Plus she follows the mum of the house around 24/7 afraid to let her out of her sight.

Interesting that it was a Springer. There is a fairly common "condition" in Springers called Springer Rage--due to over-breeding.

TKC
20th June 2006, 05:19 PM
I know that I sound like a broken record but I have to say this again... body language.

The ability to read a dogs body language is KEY. While owners are not watching there is a whole load of communication going on between dogs in close proximity. If we have them on leads we prevent them from moving away from each other and we can easily cause a conflict.

What owners tend to do wrong is correct their dog for growling at another dog. Growling is a normal behaviour it is asking another dog to back off.

If growling is continuously corrected the dog will stop using it. The next time a dog is in contact with another dog and they would like that other dog to back off, they are now muted so the growl will be skipped and they will go straight to the next level which is usually bearing teeth and quickly biting.

Many people believe that a dog lying on it's back and exposing its belly means it is submissive. This is NOT always the case. If a dog is lying on it's back, exposing it's belly with it's tail curled in it is still protecting itself and it is best to take the dog out of that situation.

Watch EARS, EYES, MOUTH, TAIL POSITION AND CARRAIGE. If you don't understand a dogs body language simply don't take the chance. Remove it from the situation.

Book recommendation:http://www.dogwise.com/itemdetails.cfm?ID=DTB856 Canine Body Language, A Photographic Guide by Brenda Aloff.

judy
20th June 2006, 10:38 PM
Thank you Tara! Very helpful.

Maxxs_Mummy
20th June 2006, 10:55 PM
It just goes to show that you have to be wary of some small dogs also because they can be just a viscous as a large dog.

Very true, they can often be MORE vicious! It's just that given their size, they tend to do less damage.

I don't know about less damage Karlin. I absolutely loathe Jack Russels & with good reason. I used to have a beautiful GSD who was attacked, whist we were out walking, by a JRT. My dog was on a leash the other thing wasn't - the owner was as mad as the dog too - until my hubby went and presented him with the Vet's bill and told him that if he didn't control his dog properly then he'd shoot it himself (he wouldn't !).

Maxx has also been attacked by a JRT for no reason. It ran onto our driveway and went for him. Luckily hubby was there and grabbed the JRT and pulled it off.

We've got about 5 nasty ones round here, I just can't understand the owners not getting proper training for them :roll:

I really hope Daisy recovers soon and we all send her big hugs with sloppy licky kisses from the boys xxxxx

Cathy T
21st June 2006, 01:06 AM
I'm just not a fun of JRTs! We've had several at the park that are just out of control. I think they are wonderful dogs IF they have owners that are totally in control of them. Our first nasty encounter was with a JRT by an owner that was just totally clueless. On the other hand...we had 2 that used to come to the park and the owner was just superb with them. I mean this man would say jump and they would ask for permission and ask how high!!

Tara - excellent information. That's one of the reasons I don't want Jake to not bark. I want him to feel he can but stop when it's not necessary. I've always heard that a growl was a good thing...it's a warning. Prevent the growl...and you never get the warning.

edel
21st June 2006, 11:51 AM
i am also very weary of jack russell. They may be small but they are very strong. The other day i was walking lady neary my friends house when a jrt comes running towards us. I knew by his expression that he was aggressive so i picked her up and kept her as high as possible. he proceeded to jump on me and try to bite her tail. All the while the owner looked on from the garden. :swear:

i was like hello, call your dog off, i really thought that he would bite me to get to her. He eventually called the dog and thought that it was very funny that i had to pick her up.

Most of the time though when i see a dog off lead i generally do pick her up but im afraid that this makes her afraid as she can sense the panic in my body when i see a dog running towards us. and i really dont want to make her a nervous dog

Maxxs_Mummy
21st June 2006, 12:01 PM
I don't stop mine barking either Cathy, I just had to train Charlie what it was and wasn't OK to bark at as he barked at everything! When we got him, he'd spent long hours on his own and we really had to train him from scratch. It's been a long struggle but well worth it :D

The only time we stop Maxx from barking is when he's attacking the tv :roll: . If we didn't do it, we'd have no tv left and then what would hubby do???? :badgrin:

amanda L
21st June 2006, 12:19 PM
Poor little Daisy, I really hope she will recover well, tg the vet was able to fix her jaw back. I am very wary of big dogs off the lead. My cav had a bad experience on a local beach a while back, he was jumped on by a biggish springer, and pulled around by the ear. The springers owner ran up and started kicking his dog in the stomach, the dog dropped Elliot (like a rabbit), and fell onto the ground. Elliot was not hurt, however, I was sickened at the reaction of the springers owner. Some other guy ran up and told the owner to stop kicking his dog; the owners response was :swear: He then walked on and never even put the dog on a lead, he did'nt seem to have one for him. I now put Elliot back on the lead asap if a see a bigger dog (I don't know) running around off leash.