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View Full Version : 4 tris in Pennsylvania SPCA!



arasara
9th July 2006, 05:33 AM
Hi guys,

This is just heart breaking. :(

Many of you know that I'm looking to find another cav around my area to adopt, but while I was looking, I stumbled across this:

Randolph:

http://search.petfinder.com/petnote/displaypet.cgi?petid=6599813

"#37"

This is my favorite - I wonder if they ship to canada!? I LOVE the grey ears ;)

http://search.petfinder.com/petnote/displaypet.cgi?petid=6616856

"#160"

http://search.petfinder.com/petnote/displaypet.cgi?petid=6616912

"#161"

http://search.petfinder.com/petnote/displaypet.cgi?petid=6616915

I can't help but wondering if this is part of the big puppy mill bust? I really hope all of these dogs find wonderful new loving homes. If my bf would let me I'de take all 4 of them. ;)

JeanKC
9th July 2006, 06:46 AM
Why would there be a 'special adoption fee' for a purebred dog, as opposed to the 'regular' adoption fee...which I expect would be less?

KC

Maxxs_Mummy
9th July 2006, 11:28 AM
I think that's a bit naughty too Jean - especially as these dogs are bound to encounter far more health problems than a crossbreed.

Arasara, I agree with you, those grey ears are something else. My Maxxy is going grey on his back legs and he looks so distinguished :l*v: Every time I see him I fall in love all over again :l*v:

Mary
9th July 2006, 01:26 PM
Sure hope they all find the wonderful home they deserve!

arasara
9th July 2006, 02:33 PM
yeah it does seem dirty that they have a special adoption fee for these guys. If it is part of the puppy mill bust, what I read about that is that every one of those dogs had some kind of health condition. I can't fathom having a dog and never naming it. "#37" - what's with that?

Karlin
10th July 2006, 01:04 AM
Those four are very sweet! :)

I think it is fair enough to charge an additional fee. Here's why:

First off, there's no increased protection in crossbreeds beyond the first generation of the cross (presuming the parents are of good health too) ; Rory's mom has done work in this area at vet school and seen the studies that prove this (she discussed it somewhere on the board before -- it's really interesting). While a cross won't be prone to breed-specific health issues they are just as prone to everything generally, and in some cases may get the bad genes from the breeds of which they are part. In my own experience with rescues the mixes have just as many health issues, including serious ones, as the p/bs. I don't know anyone in rescue who has seen any significant difference. As a matter of fact all the seriously ill dogs I can think of have been mixes taken from pounds. Probably because people might be less likely to ever have vaccinated/wormed them and done basic health care than if they paid for their puppy initially, so the mixes go into the pound and get exposed to parvo, kennel cough, etc with no protection. :(

The reason I think it is fair to charge more for purebreds is that this discourages people viewing them as cheap bargains and treating them like bargains. If one had bought one of these dogs they would have cost close to $2000; for a desireable purebred I would totally agree with putting a greater adoption fee with the dog both because the owner is still getting a very good price; if these dogs were part of any raid (especially the PA one), this price will not even begin to recover what had to be spent so far on kennelling etc, all costs entirely carried by the SPCA (remember, they can't just be boarded for free and all have to be vet checked and treated).

Also there's no reason a shelter shouldn't use market demand to help them raise badly needed funds. This is a specially desireable breed and the fact that everyone wins -- people get a lovely dog at a fraction they would pay in the open market, and the shelter is able to raise some funding, works well for all. :)

Karlin
10th July 2006, 11:03 AM
Just as a sidenote:

I was getting lots of enquiries and applications on my rescue site from people wanting puppies (though it clearly says I never have puppies, in large letters) and lots of general enquiries from people wanting a cavalier.

None of the requests coming in indicated anyone had actually read the background info on the site. Now, if I wanted a cavalier, I'd have read every single sentence and tried to find out as much as possible in advance of applying and out of general interest in the breed! :lol: It worried me that people seemed to view rescue as a source of cheap cavaliers, so they wouldn't have to pay a breeder.

Most of my referrals come from a small listing I have on the breed rescue page of Irishanimals.com, a rescue and resources website. I asked my friend who runs the site to change my text on my notice to say there's an adoption fee for every cavalier, usually of around €100, to cover my basic vet costs.

I have had almost NO enquiries since then (two people have returned the homing form).

This is satisfying to me -- as it removes the time wasters who would change their minds when the 'free' cavalier sufddenly is going to cost them money. Note that I clearly state the fee goes only to cover my own vet costs -- usually a neuter and vax and basic health check. But people apparently do not even want to cover those BASICS that are not for me, but for the dog's good health!! :shock:

By contrast, everyone I have ever homed a dog to was more than happy to cover such costs and/or make a general contribution to rescue.

That's why I think it is important to place a value on the dog that does reflect that you are getting a purebred dog of a specific breed, as these are generally harder to find. I like to be sure the people taking a dog really want that dog, and linking some financial value to it is the best way to do this, though sometimes it might seem arbitrary or crass, or to be saying a p/b is 'better' than a mix. A p/b isn;t 'better' but it is harder to find and for some people, more desireable.

Cathy Moon
11th July 2006, 03:40 AM
I can't help but wondering if this is part of the big puppy mill bust?

There was a huge area of terrible flooding in Pennsylvania less than 2 weeks ago - 42 counties. The cavs could be from some of those counties, it was a huge swath of PA just west of Philadelphia.

JaneB
11th July 2006, 04:51 PM
I'm wondering if they are left over from that puppy mill raid. . . I sent an application in for a couple of the Cavs but never heard back from anyone. Perhaps they have chosen not to place in out of state homes.

JaneB

Karlin
11th July 2006, 06:23 PM
I think they were homing locally as they had people lining up at the shelter. They'd be unlikely to send a dog any distance. You could call the shelter and see? Ypu'd likely have to go and wait in line as well. I've posted a couple of articles on the rehoming of those dogs in the General section of this site.

molly
16th July 2006, 01:54 AM
I read somewhere that they have spent hundreds of thousands on these dogs from the Penns. raid. I don't think that the $300 is unreasonable. Think of what a healthy pup would cost and think how many other dogs they will need to help in the future. I hope all the dogs find loving homes!

arasara
16th July 2006, 02:31 AM
I was not saying that $300 is unreasonable to ask for a rescue dog, especially a Cavalier. I just was thinking about health problems that they might have and how much extra that will be on top of an "extra" fee for purebred dogs. It just doesn't settle too well with me, but I can understand your points.

I understand what you're saying Karlin, I just don't think it makes a dog a "better" dog because it's p/b. I can see why there would be more of a demand for them though. And there sure aren't a lot of Cavaliers for rescue in contrast to lots of the other breeds.

That's very unfortunate that when you put that there was an adoption fee on the cavaliers that nobody wants them anymore Karlin. It makes me sad. :( I want to rescue a Cav eventually, but it's in no way for a cheap bargain. I have a puppy mill dog back in the states (she's now on the In Memoriam page on top of Xena) and it absolutely broke my heart when she came to us. I want to rescue a dog for myself as I think it would be a good experience and teach me lots of new life lessons, and also because I have a big heart and I would love to give a never-been-spoiled dog some spoilage. hehe (:

I also sent in an inquiry to the dogs in PA, but nobody has gotten back to me either. And I also sent a question to LuckyStar asking if they would consider homing an animal to Canada, but I read that they get way more inquiries then dogs available, so I am not counting on that. Also in their rescue apps it only has a place for a US state and ZIP. I am from the states though so I am hoping when I return to Washington I can work something out.

Cathy,
I keep seeing new PA Cavs appear on the site every day. I WANT ONE! But I read on their site it's first come first serve. :(

Karlin
16th July 2006, 11:43 AM
It's actually better to work with a rescue group to rescue, rather than take this on yourself. Not least because you may find yourself in over your head, either legally or with a very ill animal, but also because sometimes what might seem like a rescue attempt is actually supporting the horrible system that continues to keep these dogs in bad situations overall. Be aware that puppy mills and petstores are quite aware people come in with the intent to rescuing dogs... and raise prices accordingly. This is well known on the puppy mill auction circuit, as rescuers can confirm. It would be far more helpful to the breed and to rescue, to work through an experienced rescue group to adopt.

No one is saying purebred dogs are 'better' than any other dog and I don't think the price difference reflects this. The price reflects the issues I have noted. The fact remains that breeding purebreds still, even at the horrific puppy farm level, takes more effort than mixed breeds. That is why it is easy to find mixed breeds in a shelter, and hard to find p/bs outside of some overbred breeds like labs, gsds, cockers etc.

Why not get involved with a local general rescue as that is a very good way to help all dogs, p/b and mixed breed? Or get involved with helping out Lucky Star by transporting or fostering -- they are sorely in need to transport people for example. Getting involved is a good way to make a bigger difference than adopting one dog, though it is wonderful to help the one if this is done in an appropriate way.

I do have people interested in cavaliers from my rescue, all the time, and not enough cavaliers for the homes I have waiting! :) However, I have happily been able to get rid of the people who ONLY want a free cavalier.

:) :thmbsup:

arasara
16th July 2006, 05:58 PM
Isabel came from a shut-down puppy mill. She was 8 weeks when we got her and infested with worms. I was 14 years old and my mom and dad went to town together and she puked in the middle of the floor and I actually saw some worms moving. I drove illegally down the road to the horse vet (lol) with Isabel in tow and she got some hefty worm pills. Thank God he helped me out. She also even though she was so young had some MAJOR social issues. it took her over a year to even come up and sit on anybody in my family's lap.. Even now she doesn't like strangers. She won't bite or growl but she will either get stiff or wiggle to get down. She also ate her own poo when we got her and that was a constant battle with us. Thank God we were able to distract her and she grew out of it. She is still crazy though. She runs on 3 legs, attacks the door every time we open it, and some other weird things. SHe's messed up, but we love her. :P

I have thought about volunteering for the animal shelter and helping to walk the dogs and stuff but to be honest I can't take the pound. It makes me cry every time I go in there because I know a lot of them have ill fate. I suppose I could volunteer to wash them or take them on walks and brush them and stuff. (: that would be fun.

I still want to someday rescue a Cavalier though. Funnily enough I see lots of Jack Russell's on the pages and occasionally I feel a tug to adopt one of them too. We have one back home and she's an absolute riot. SHe never slows down, ever, but she's smart and happy and loving just like every other dog. Negligence in people angers me though. JRTs are not an "anybody" dog. My granny actually bought our JRT because she wanted a dog to chase the animals out of the garden, but 24 hours after she bought it she took her and "gifted" her to my brother because she was too much of a pill for her, lol. She's good though. (: Thanks for all of your suggestions Karlin. I think I'm giong to wait and see how demanding my school schedule is and if I have an extra day then I'll see about volunteering at one of our local places around here.

Take care (: