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hyork
10th July 2006, 04:56 PM
Hi all, it has been a while, but no news is good news, Marley is doing great and we managed to get some of our money back from "the middle man breeder" she is a happy healthy girl aside from the few ailments she arrived with..she goes back to the vet today. She is doing well with potty training. We leave her in her crate while we are at work and she manages to hold the poo for us until we get home, but she always pees in her kennel..we suspect that she is still too young to hold it for an entire day. The night is a different story though-she barks when she needs to go out but its 3-4 times, some times more a night!!! And she goes everytime we take her out! She eats at 5 and she's a nibbler so we take up the food and water no later than 7...we take her out several times before we put her to bed around 9...and at 10:30 is is crying to go out!! what can we do? At one point we got so tired we just put her in bed with us...and she did well for a while, we thought we solved the problem because she only wanted to go once in the middle of the night, but one time she did have an accident. We love her in our bed but sometimes shes stinky and she love to chew on our comforter and sheets and just be annoying lol imagine that. I feel like I have to sleep with one eye open when she's in bed with us, so no dog in the bed-sorry Mar girl. So needless to say she's back in her kennel-and back to getting up 4 times a night-what do we do.
Also if anyone has had luck with some good toys, please tell me what they are, Marley is more interested in our flip flops and belts and wicker table than any of her toys! We got her a rope but she started to eat the strings and had obvious trouble digesting it-not fun!! I want something, atleast one thing I can trust to leave in the kennel with her so she doesn't get bored....thanks for any advice

WoodHaven
10th July 2006, 05:17 PM
Why is she "stinky"? I sleep with 6-8 on any given night and they all have to smell good. Does she have a UTI? That could make her go often and wet her kennel. Sandy

hyork
10th July 2006, 05:38 PM
she just smells like dog..lol, nothing too bad-I don't think she has a UTI she goes often and doesn't seem to have any trouble and she is drinking a regular amount of water...I guess I could take a sample along with me tonight since we are going tonight.

Moviedust
10th July 2006, 05:52 PM
As far as toys, go, have you tried a kong? You can stuff it with tasty treats, freeze, it or give it to the dog empty. Frozen rags (twisted into a log) also helps with teething pups.

How old is Marley? How long is Marley left alone during the day? If she's urinating in her kennel, she could simply be left in her kennel too long. If you cant go home during the day, it's a good idea to have a friend or dog sitter stop by and let the dog out and exercise a bit. Sitting in a kennel for 8 or more hours a day is hard on any dog, and a puppy simply doesnt have the bladder size to hold urine that long.

Plus, if she's not going potty in her kennel, she wont get so smelly so fast!

hyork
10th July 2006, 05:55 PM
yah we are gone for 9 hours plus, I Try to get home but sometimes I just can't-you are right she needs to go out in the middle of the day...
And I will get the Kong-lol

hyork
10th July 2006, 05:58 PM
Shes about 5 months, sorry.

Karlin
10th July 2006, 06:36 PM
With all due respect, I think you really, really need to either get someone to come in midday or find a doggie daycare type of place to keep her. Nine hours (plus!) is way too long for even a full grown adult to last, especially five days a week. It's placing the dog in a very painful condition, especially at such a young age. Imagine trying to hold it yourself for so many hours, or asking a toddler to hold itself, amd you can see what I mean. Marley is still a baby and this must be distressing for her to have no option but to wee (in general a dog can only hold itself at max, an hour for every month of age). Dogs in general find it very distressing to have to dirty their living space in this way and it makes it very hard to ever housetrain the dog as well if it learns that dirtying its living space is not just an option but a requirement -- that is what she is currently learning.

A dog can become seriously ill as well from trying to hold in urine in particular for so many hours, day after day. It needs to be able to empty its bladder at least once during that stretch.

Can you try a room for her, like a kitchen -- or even an x-pen? This is lining her up for housetraining issues, to have her peeing in her crate (end exposing herself to urine burns) as well as behaviour issues. It is very boring and unstimulating for a dog to be left in a crate for such a stretch, too. It's not generally recommended to keep a dog crated longer than a 4-5 hour stretch, maximum.

Is there any way you can address this to get someone in for a walk? Often a retired person or teen can come in and there are many commercial dog walking services, too. Or can you and your partner alternate getting home?

You might try to train the dog to use a litter box, or papers, inside, and give her a room to stay in, as a compromise. There are directions for doing this in Shirlee Kalstone's book on housetraining a dog.

Karlin
10th July 2006, 06:57 PM
Here's advice from the American Dog Trainers Network on crating:


Crating Duration Guidelines

9-10 Weeks

Approx. 30-60 minutes

11-14 Weeks

Approx. 1-3 hours

15-16 Weeks

Approx. 3-4 hours

17 + Weeks

Approx. 4+ (6 hours maximum)


*NOTE: Except for overnight, neither puppies nor dogs should be crated for more than 5 hours at a time. (6 hours maximum!)

More info on crating:

http://www.inch.com/~dogs/cratetraining.html
http://www.nhspca.org/community-services/crateTraining.html
http://www.terrier.com/wwwboard/faq/crating2.htm

sarahg
10th July 2006, 07:26 PM
Hi

Please please get someone to come in during the day, aside from the wetting she must be very lonley in her kennel for that long. Maybe that is why she is crying in the night as she as been on her own all day she may just want company. Good luck

Sarah Xxx

Maxxs_Mummy
10th July 2006, 10:24 PM
I agree with Karlin. She shouldn't be kenneled or crated for that amount of time. Cavaliers are social dogs and need people around them. I felt guilty at having to leave mine on their own for 3 or 4 hours whilst I was at work & there's two of them and they have the whole downstairs of the house to do as they please in.

Please, please, please find a doggy daycare centre to leave her at, or a dogsitter or dogwalker to pop in and break up her day, let her out for a wee and walk her & please reconsider leaving her in a kennel for more than a few hours. It must feel like she's in a doggy prison in solitary confinement :(

I also think the chewing of your comforter and sheets is a comfort thing - these dogs are like babies and babies suck and chew things.

One accident on the bed at 5mths shouldn't be a huge problem to ban her for either. I once spent every day of the week at the launderette with my duvet where Charlie was having accidents.

I'm sorry to sound hard but if you are both out for 9 hours plus, 5 days a week and leave her caged all that time then why get a dog? They are not toys, they have feelings too :(

Maybe I am too soft and caring with my two but I had them because I wanted them and wanted to spend time with them. In fact, I very often say no to invitations because I don't want to leave them & they can't attend. I think they'd rather that to being left in a cage for 9 hours plus a day, Day in, day out & then being banished from the bed for having an accident and being stinky though.

As I said, maybe I sound hard but did you really think it through before you went and got Marley?

Alison_Leighfield
11th July 2006, 01:04 PM
If both of you are out for 9hrs plus, 5 days a week, then why have you got a dog?

You really need to be home with a puppy or at least able to get home throughout the day for toileting, training and socializing. These are important months for this to be happening right now, especially the socializing with other dogs, do you take your dog to any activities in the evenings/weekends etc for stimulation and fun?

I can't believe that this little one is just left on it's own like this.

Alison, Wilts, U.K.

Claire
11th July 2006, 01:44 PM
Sorry hyork - but I really agree with the others - 9 hours stuck in a crate -poor little Marley.

We had two weeks off when we first got ours, and then we are still going home of a lunchtime, I felt guilty leaving them for the first time, but a least they had a kitchen, hallway and landing with paper, water and lots of toys down.

I really think you should have thoroughly read up on having a dog and the time and care that they require......

hyork
11th July 2006, 01:46 PM
You all are misconstruing what I said and I quote "I Try to get home but sometimes I just can't" I get home in the middle of the day the majority of the time-there is an occasional day out of the week-that it doesn't happen… We love our dog and she is very well taken care of and I am sorry that I am upsetting so many of you. We spend all weekend with her and every minute that we are home, she goes everywhere with us. And on days my sister or my mom can take her during the day they do, so please don’t think we are neglecting our dog.

Maxxs_Mummy
11th July 2006, 03:24 PM
Please can you tell me how we are misconstruing this?


yah we are gone for 9 hours plus, I Try to get home but sometimes I just can't-you are right she needs to go out in the middle of the day...


You might try to get home but what about the days you can't? Is somebody there with her most of the time? Doesn't sound like it if she's crated most of the time.


We leave her in her crate while we are at work and she manages to hold the poo for us until we get home, but she always pees in her kennel..we suspect that she is still too young to hold it for an entire day.

Of course she is - she's a 5mth old puppy! Most Cavaliers don't have full control of their bladder and bowel until at least 18mths. Tbh you shouldn't be expecting her to hold it in either :|


The night is a different story though-she barks when she needs to go out but its 3-4 times, some times more a night!!! And she goes everytime we take her out! She eats at 5 and she's a nibbler so we take up the food and water no later than 7...we take her out several times before we put her to bed around 9...and at 10:30 is is crying to go out!!

9pm is extremely early for a puppy to be put to bed. My two are 7 and 2 and have their bedtime wee at around 10pm. Hubby is up early with them too - between 4.30am and 6.30am and lets them out for another wee. They still sometimes get me up in the night too - could you go all night without having to visit the bathroom? I think she's doing exceptionally well & shows that she wants to go out. To expect them to hold their wees and poos at this age for any length of time is asking for a miracle and is also setting them up for health problems.

Btw, most puppies and kittens wake up and want to play around 9pm!!!!!



what can we do?

Spend more time with her during the day or get her into doggy daycare and also let her out later at night.


At one point we got so tired we just put her in bed with us...and she did well for a while, we thought we solved the problem because she only wanted to go once in the middle of the night, but one time she did have an accident.

As I said before, she is a 5mth old puppy - I'd be more surprised if she didn't ever have an accident. She obviously needs to be close to her humans, more so as she's only a baby.


We love her in our bed but sometimes shes stinky and she love to chew on our comforter and sheets and just be annoying lol imagine that. I feel like I have to sleep with one eye open when she's in bed with us, so no dog in the bed-sorry Mar girl.

No need to imagine, we've all been there. If she's stinky and smells doggy then bath her. Cavaliers don't like to smell bad, they are fastidious dogs. She's obviously chewing on the comforter as a comfort thing - my eldest one will still suck on my kids' pillows :lol:


So needless to say she's back in her kennel-and back to getting up 4 times a night-what do we do.

Get her an X-Pen or similar or leave her in the kitchen. As I said before, she needs more freedom than being stuck in a kennel or crate all the time.



Also if anyone has had luck with some good toys, please tell me what they are, Marley is more interested in our flip flops and belts and wicker table than any of her toys! We got her a rope but she started to eat the strings and had obvious trouble digesting it-not fun!! I want something, atleast one thing I can trust to leave in the kennel with her so she doesn't get bored....thanks for any advice

She had trouble digesting it as ropes can get stuck in their throats and choke them. They should always be watched whilst playing with rope toys.

I think it's normal for them to want to chew on shoes and things - they smell of you. Maxx went through a few pairs of shoes and sandals before my lot learned to put them away, it's normal puppy behaviour. If you don't want her to chew your coffee table and things then spray some Listerine on it - won't hurt her but she won't like the taste.

I also stand by what I have said earlier.


Cavaliers are social dogs and need people around them.

It must feel like she's in a doggy prison in solitary confinement :(


One accident on the bed at 5mths shouldn't be a huge problem to ban her for either. I once spent every day of the week at the launderette with my duvet where Charlie was having accidents.

They are not toys, they have feelings too :(

Maybe I am too soft and caring with my two but I had them because I wanted them and wanted to spend time with them. In fact, I very often say no to invitations because I don't want to leave them & they can't attend. I think they'd rather that to being left in a cage for 9 hours plus a day, Day in, day out & then being banished from the bed for having an accident and being stinky though.

As I said, maybe I sound hard but did you really think it through before you went and got Marley?

amanda L
11th July 2006, 04:56 PM
I agree with everthing the others have said, I just cannot believe you are leaving a 5 month old pup alone for nine hours a day in a kennel and the poor dog cannot empty her bowel. For any dog, any age, 9 hours is just far too long. Puppies also are going to pee a lot during the night. She may be "stinky" as you put it as she might be suffering from a UTI. Smelly urine is one of the principal signs of a UTI, frequency may or may not be present. You should check this out with your vet.

Moviedust
11th July 2006, 06:29 PM
hyork,

I can see how it might be upsetting to read criticisms for how you handle your dog's day to day schedule. No one likes to think that they are harming their dogs in some way. I'm sure you absolutely love your Marley, and Marley most certainly loves you!

Some of the issues you mentioned, though, can be related to the lifestyle Marley leads. The house training, the night time issues, and the chewing behaviors can all be linked back to the fact she spends most of her time alone. Cavaliers, especially, are people-oriented, and want to be with you, even if you cant be with them.

At 5 months, it isnt unusual to expect the puppy to sleep through the night, as long as it has been house trained and socialized all of its life. Part of Marley's needs at night could simply be related to the fact that she knows you will spend time with her when you take her out to potty. She knows that pottying will get a positive reaction, and she wants a positive reaction from you. So she's potties when you take her out because it's what will please you. She's developed this behavior, and it will be difficult to change when she doesnt have much time with you during the day.

It's great that you spend time with her in the evenings and weekends. That's what a responsible dog owners does! You love it, she loves it. All is good. It's just that during the week Marley needs more than what she's currently getting if you want her to overcome some of these negative behaviors and avoid developing more (worse) behaviors in the future.

Not everyone gets a dog knowing what's best for the dog in every area. Just like being a parent, a lot of learning takes places through experience. This board is a great place to get advice on how to do your best by your dog, so that your dog and your family can have the best possible relationship. Wouldn't you love to have Marley sleep with you without having accidents? Wouldnt you love to have her smell fresh and nice? Wouldnt you love a full night's sleep without taking her out? Of course you would! We all do!

The advice from the board can give you an edge to getting what you want from your relationship with Marley. It may mean making some adjustments to what you are doing now, but that's okay. The changes lead to good things! Your quality of life will improve, as will Marley's.

Doggie daycares are a great place to start. Even if you're able to go home during the day at noon, a doggie daycare would be even better. Marley would not only be more stimulated, she would learn more about socializing with other dogs and people. She'll expend more energy as well, so she'll WANT to sleep more at night!

If a doggie daycare isnt available, try looking for a business that does dog walking or the like. Sometimes, a local friend (young or mature!) would be willing to help out at a reasonable price. You can ask your vet for recommendations on both doggie daycares as well as people who might walk a dog for someone.

Another great way to get more time in with Marley is obedience classes. They often are held in the evenings or on weekends when people arent working. While you spend that time with Marley now, I imagine that time is not soley dedicated to Marley. An obedience class will define the time specifically for her, and you will be amazed at how much she'll learn. She's so young right now, that she'll be a little Einstein!! The training will make the time with her so much easier since you'll be able to better communicate exactly what you want from her. She loves to give you what you want, she just needs to learn what you mean.

I hope that you are willing to give some consideration to the advice presented here and from others. I also hope that you stay with the board, keep asking questions, keep letting us know how Marley is doing, and -- without doubt-- post pictures!! Our intentions are always good; we love our cavaliers and we want the best for them and their owners. Happy owners have happy dogs, afterall!

Claire
12th July 2006, 11:15 AM
Sorry if it sounds like we are being horrible but we do really love our dogs - and if a sign should be outside our houses it is Beware of the Owners and not the dogs.....

merlinsmum
14th July 2006, 09:58 PM
I'm sorry if you don't like what people have said but I totally agree here. 9 hours in a crate is a bit toooo much. When Merlin was a baby he was left on his own for 3 hours until Grandma came to give him lunch and then she stayed and played for 2 hours and then Dad was home 3-4 hours later - I could hardly concentrate at work as I felt so guilty. He had the whole kitchen, a box full of different kinds of toys that sqeaked, were cuddly. We made sure we made up for those hours he was on his own. All night we'd be on the floor being his playmates, taking him to the shop, taking him to friend - and again we declined invitations so we could spend quality time with him.

sayng that by the time he was 5 months we all agreed it made better sense for me to drop him at grandma's everyday - she has a 12 year old lab -and they get on like house on fire - in fact they now look for each other! And it keeps gran ad of 75 on his feet as the 12 year old is slowing down.

If grandma goes on holiday he spends 2 days at the other grandmas and I do short days the rest of the week. He alsways has a good walk and play before I do have to leave him but he has the whole house to do what he pleases him. I never get any accidents as he is well wee'd and poo'd before. dad will come home at lunch time to let him out also.

They can only be expected to hold on for so long, just like you - if you are caught in a traffic jam for 2 hours no doubt you would be dyding for a wee.

I think the advice given in the previsous threads should be taken, cavs are such loving dogs an d they aren't stupid, they know that mummy and daddy have to go out and leave them sometimes but not shut in a cage.

As you can see from my story, they do learn but it takes time and you can't expect miracles and YOU have to change your life to accom odate the needs of your dog just as you would if you had a baby - its just the same only they don't grow up to go upstairs and lift the toilet seat.

I don't hope this upsets you in any way ( I don't mean it to) but please give him a room to play in when you are out, so what if he wee's or poos - it'll clean up.......................