View Full Version : Breeder is not ethical

Linda Stern
2nd August 2006, 02:16 AM
NB Edited by Karlin, list admin to remove all references to the named breeder:

Original post:

If u know this woman she is not a good breeder! No one should buy a dog/puppy from her. She breeds caviliers.

i received a KC cavalier on 5/25/06 whelped on 2/27/06i have had the puppy since it was 10 weeks old. The puppy is diagnosed with a liver shunt...due for final analysis on 08/02/06. The breeder in Iowa shipped to Northern Califor. She has not been well since received. My vet finally said i need to go to Davis for more medical information. I take her to uc davis tomorrow for a technesium scan. She initially said she would pay 1/2 medical or take her back and i would get a new puppy. I tried to get her to take her back almost 2 weeks ago...and she said she didn't see the value in it that was on July 25th. Now i called her to tell her her test is tomorrow, and she said just send her back. She told me to cancel the test and just send her back that she is not going to pay any medical expenses. Now what am i to do? Is there any thing legally that can be done? How do i report her to the AKC breeders association?
Thank you for our assistance,
Linda Stern
If u could please call me i am off to UC Davis vet hospital tomorrow for her test.
Linda Stern
This woman is not a reliable breeder nor is she in line with your code of conduct. I do have several emails which verify my situation as well as vet bill from my vet here in Northern California.

***** I, Karlin, am adding this note:****

I sympathise with your situation and your distress. But PLEASE read the guidelines for using this site which clearly state: no discussion on individual breeders please especially not those one alleges are unethical. This places the site, me and YOU the poster at risk of a defamation lawsuit. People are welcome to contact Linda privately through email or PMs. Thanks. :thmbsup: I've commented further down in more detail.

2nd August 2006, 03:00 AM
Hi.. sorry to hear of your experience.. My heart is breaking for you and your little baby. :(

Karlin, the wonderful site mod, has posted some things about this topic specifically.. scroll down to the health library section to read more info. Good luck and let us know what happens.

Sorry again. :( *hugZ* from Sara and Kosmo!

2nd August 2006, 03:56 AM
Sorry to hear about your pup's health problems and the unhelpful breeder. Here's a link to more info on the board about your rights:


2nd August 2006, 07:15 AM
Sorry to hear that you are finding yourself in this most awful situation...

What is the breeder intending to do with the puppy if you return her? is the breeder going to give her the medical attention that she so needs? I would be reluctant to let her go back until I knew what was going to happen to her.
Would you be willing to keep her if the breeder gave you a full refund and some help towards the treatment costs?

This is a very difficult situation when emotions are high and you have proberbly fallen in love with the little puppy.

Breeders like these should be closed down along with puppy farms/mills.

Alison, Wilts, U.K.

2nd August 2006, 11:35 AM
I have edited this post to remove the name of the person referred to in the post.

I would like to strongly state, restate, and state again:

In using this site, registrants agree to abide by the terms of use. The terms of use in the "Getting Started" section very clearly state that it is NEVER allowed to name specific kennels, breeders or brokers in any posts in which there are any criticisms, alleged misdoings, etc.


The very fact of making such a post places the board, the board owner (me) and the poster at risk of a very expensive libel and defamation lawsuit. You simply cannot make statements disparaging people that are unproved in a court of law without placing yourself at risk of libel -- because is posting to a public board or email list, you have legally 'published' and have the same responsibilities and liabilities as the New York Times.

The US Supreme Court has said that "in the context of defamation law, the rights of the institutional media are no greater and no less than those enjoyed by other individuals and organizations engaged in the same activities."

Even if what is stated is the truth and can be proven it costs huge sums to do this is a court of law and if a libelled person takes a case, YOU AND I either have to defend it and incur these costs, or PAY a settlement fee to the person who states they have been libelled. Online, truth can have a cost.

I would advise all board members to read through this easy to understand document on the liability anyone posting to a public site carries:


In this case the document was assembled to help bloggers understand their responsibilities but the same considerations apply when you post to any board or email list or leave a comment on a weblog.

To make a distinction very clear here:

People are welcome to make a post and ask any interested members to contact them PRIVATELY for further information on an individual or a kennel or a suspicious circumstance.

People are not ever permitted to make a post naming individuals or kennels publicly in the post to the board.

People will know that in the rare case where I have named or linked to an individual it is when there are other publications stating factual information about them or reporting the facts of a court case. People may be aware that I recently took legal advice in both the US and Ireland on one such case to make sure I was in a watertight position.


I do not make such decisions lightly but as the board owner it is my prerogative to choose the exceptions to such rules and only with careful legal advice, and with the knowledge of international libel laws and the applications to the internet that I have learned as a journalist.

The risks I then incur are by my own choice.

2nd August 2006, 11:44 AM
Regarding this individual situation:

If she is a member of the AKC you can complain, as well as to any breed club of which she is a member (but if she 'belongs' to the bogus registries that will have no effect as they are just issuers of paper, not proper breed clubs). You may be covered by 'lemon laws' and so forth but it can be very hard to take a claim between states. You would need to take legal advice on what you can do but people have also posted links to info I've posted in the Library on cases like this.

If you have documentation hang on to it; that includes emails and anything else.

If her contract said she would replace the pup and she refused, you went ahead for treatment arranegments, then she tried to back out, you would presumably have some grounds then for action but whether you would get anything from her is questionable. Be aware that if you return the pup she will likely either resell it as is or euthenise it. How would you return a sick pup across half the US anyway? Did she say how you were to do this? It would be extremely cruel to ship a seriously ill pup.

I'd suggest contacting the nearest SPCA/Humane Society for advice too.

If this is an unethical breeder I wonder if she even has AKC registered dogs?

This is a tragic situation. It bears repeating that it can be very hard and take much legwork, but careful research pays off and buying from well known, reputable breeders for whom you have direct references and where you can go and meet the breeder, see the breeding set-up, check the mother, see firsthand the approrpiate health testing clearances, etc makes a world of difference. A good breeder will be there with an owner every step of the way with an ill pup and likely have a number of options available to the distressed pet owner.

There are reasons puppies cost more from good breeders -- because they do the testing, show their dogs, maintain breed health, and give full support to buyers, and you get a quality puppy or help when a terrible situation like this arises. A bad breeder charges almost as much, does none of these things, and leaves an upset puppy buyer shouldering what can be enormous medical costs for a sweet puppy that should never have been bred in the first place. :(

2nd August 2006, 11:10 PM
California does have a lemon law for dogs and cats: