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View Full Version : I need some advice on how to work with another dog



arasara
4th August 2006, 12:45 PM
Yesterday morning I was leaving for work and was approached by a neighbor who was in tears. She said she had to get her kids in NY and she had made arrangements for her dog, Autumn to go to her sisters house while she was gone. Well, Autumn went there and had an accident and the sister got so angry she made them turn back around *headed for NY* and come and get the dog. She pleaded with me to watch him and I felt bad, so I said OK but under conditions and we'de talk more when I got home from work. When I got home they had left a note on my garage with the key to their house.. Something about not wanting to drive late at night so they left early.. ugh. OK so I figured since I don't have an X pen I'de bring up some storage totes from the basement to let him into the kitchen and just section that off. Problem #1: I took him for a walk yesterday and was rather suprised when I realized he wasn't neutered. :? I thought maybe I could walk the two together and so I had avi bring Kosmo out. He immediately tried to mount Kosmo and I took him off then he did it again and Kosmo actually cried. Kos is 10lbs on a good day, this dog has got to be about 40. So anyhow, he can't come to my house.. this is Kosmo's house and I refuse to have him hurt if the dog won't listen. So anywho I called them back and they said the MIL is coming to stay at their house on the weekend so I will just have to walk him and take him for his potty breaks. Problem #2, I've only been taking care of this dog for 12 hours and my arms is already hurting from him pulling on the leash. I tried making him stop, but he doesn't care if I stop the walk and I don't know how else to get him not to pull. Problem #3, I can't get him to stop humping me. I know it's kind of an embarassing problem but I have tried saying no, off, stop.. everything and he keeps doing it. I called to see how they deal with him and she said "say no and smack his bum lightly." #1, I refuse to hit the dog.. if you raised a hand to Kosmo he'd hit your first because he would think you're playing with him .. #2, he's not neutered and not my dog. I don't know if he has some kind of hidden aggression to people.. I've seen him on walks before but he's always been O.K. I think he might just be testing me. He's not a bad dog, he just isn't trained..

So how am I supposed to stop him from humping me? He actually is hurting me because he's strong. I didn't know what to do last night so I went over to sit and play with him. We were watching spongebob and he decided out of the blue to hump me.. jumped on me and ripped my CK shirt. I wanted to kill him..

And how can I stop him from hurting me on the leash?

Over the past 12 hours I've come to realize that Kosmo is an angel.


Thanks for listening to my rant. I cant wait until they come back on Sunday@! The only comforting thought is that they will come and help me out with Kosmo if something happens and I can't be here.

Karlin
4th August 2006, 02:11 PM
Something very fishy there. How can someone dump a dog and run without coming to an arrangement? If you have a number I would immediately call these people and tell them this is not a workable solution and that you need them to arrange for the dog to go to a kennel. I would NOT be responsible for such an ill behaved dog, dumped on you at the last minute without any proper discussion on what needs to be done.

She seriously needs to get this dog into obedience as well. And have him neutered.

Why did they not at least phone you before they left?

If I were in your position I would tell them the dog needs to immediately have a kennel stay arranged or they need to find a house sitter to mind the dog, that you cannot manage him because he is too strong, untrained and unruly and is putting your puppy at risk.

Short of any other alternative, I would leave him at the people's house and go by a fgew times a day to let him out to wee and run around the garden. I would NOT take him for walks. And I would explain why.

And I would charge them for dog-sitting. :x

PS The dog can survive without walks for three days. If nothing else throw a ball for him in their garden. If they don;t have a garden I'd take him for the potty breaks if you feel you cannot get out of this ludicrous situation, and that is it. But I'd be livid at this situation and their rudeness.

Alison_Leighfield
4th August 2006, 02:51 PM
Yes I agree, put him back in his own house somewhere safe enough, pop around every few hours to let him run and have a toilet break in his own garden, (if damage gets done then it's not your fault) and just feed him, failing that could you find a kennals that would take him? and leave them a note on their garage door for their return?

When they return let them know to never take you for granted like that again...and like Karlin said CHARGE THEM.

what a nerve!

stay calm :flwr: :flwr: :flwr: :flwr: :flwr: for you x

Alison, Wilts, U.K.

GudrunTheRed
4th August 2006, 03:11 PM
I agree with Karlin. Your neighbors sound like idiots...sigh. I'm sorry you're having to deal with this, but just remember that it's not the dog's fault so don't get mad at him. When the owners get home have a long talk with them and tell them they need to have him neutered and have some obedience training.

What kind of dog it is?

Best of luck to you and let us know what happens when the owners get back!

Cathy T
4th August 2006, 03:50 PM
Well...that's just rude. Unfortunately it says a lot about how they feel about their dog. I would NEVER leave my guys not knowing who was caring for them and being sure they would be well taken care of. I know none of us would. These people are totally taking advantage of you. If you had made arrangements with them prior and agreed to care for him it would be a different story but they have just pawned the dog off on you.

I agree with everyone so far. I would leave him at their house, go over several times a day to let her out and toss the ball for him. I would NOT take him for a walk...he doesn't HAVE to be walked. Besides...the MIL will be there tomorrow right? So she can take care of him.

So...today go over and play. Tonight visit and play. And then until they come home MIL can be in charge. But...I would definitely tell them that I didn't appreciate them dumping this on you like that. Not to mention that fact they conveniently forgot to tell you he is not neutered! :yikes

Karlin
4th August 2006, 04:46 PM
failing that could you find a kennals that would take him? and leave them a note on their garage door for their return?

:thmbsup:

Or alternatively, leave him in to be neutered and leave a note as to where he is and why. ;)

Cathy T
4th August 2006, 05:04 PM
failing that could you find a kennals that would take him? and leave them a note on their garage door for their return?

:thmbsup:

Or alternatively, leave him in to be neutered and leave a note as to where he is and why. ;)

Right on!! :lol:

Maxxs_Mummy
4th August 2006, 06:43 PM
OMG I agree with everything the others have said :yikes

Is Kosmo OK? Poor little love :l*v: . What sort of dog is this anyway? If it tries to hump you again turn your back on it and it should get down immediately. It's a dominance thing and I would be wary of any dog that tried to hump me when it's owner wasn't around. No wonder her sister wouldn't look after him!!!!


I would also charge your neighbours from hell for a new shirt too :|

One of my neighbours has a vicious rabbit that is unfriendly to everyone except her daughter, I looked after it a few times and kept getting bitten. One day she came over and held out her keys and said "We're off to Spain for two weeks tonight, look after the rabbit will you" I refused point blank and she wasn't impressed.

Serves her right, she should have sorted out care prior to 2 hours before departure! :lol: :lol: :lol:

arasara
4th August 2006, 11:28 PM
Hi guys. Thanks for being so supportive of the situation that I am in right now.

I have been thinking about it throughout the day and really I think everything is making sense to me now.

When I got into their house, the first thing I noticed for the dog was the lack of toys. I saw one rubber thing in his crate, nothing else. On top of the crate was a fruit bowl type thing with poopoo bags and about 4 other rubber toys in it. Second thing I noticed was the lack of treats. There are no doggy treats at all!! What's with that? If you come over here there are dog treat bins by each door and a whole slew of different things in the hutch cupboard. Koz has a whole side dedicated to his food and treats~!

I really think the problem with this dog is the fact that it doesn't seem like his owners are wiling to spend the time with him to train him properly. I brought him this treat tonight, a Tbone thing and I was going to give it to him when we got in from going potty outside, and I had it on the counter. I came in the door, grabbed it off of the counter, tried to make him sit down before I gave it to him, but he nipped at me and got my thumb! :yikes He didn't hurt me it just kind of threw me back a bit. I can hold treats forever in my hand and Kosmo would never even THINK to nip. I taught him when he was really young that if he nipped for a treat he would be ignored and get nothing.. apparently this dog hasn't been shown the same thing. Also he's put in his crate through the day and also crated at night every night. No wonder when we come in from going outside the first thing he does is fall asleep. The poor boy probably doesn't even get proper walks! I think he's just probably there for the kids (who can't control him when he pulls so it's pointless.) I went over to their house the first time and they also threw him in the garage while I was there. I would never ever kennel Kosmo when someone comes over. If they don't like it .. they can go home. Maybe they are just frusterated with him because they haven't spent enough time with him to make him be good so he is just unruley all the time. Sigh...

I know this sounds kind of funny but it's not too big of a dog! I kind of made him sound like a St. Bernard or something but he's a beagle. I should be able to handle a dog of that size, but the problem is he just takes off after stray things and jerks my arm and stuff. It actually hurts me. Kosmo will occasionally jerk on the leash a little bit but the second he does we stop the walk right away until he stops. If I stop for this dog, he pulls until he starts physically choking and I don't want to hurt him so I just keep on walking.

I really thought it was crappy for them to pawn the dog off on me too. I know in my heart that they are nice people regardless of their actions and I don't want to have any ill wills with neighbors so I will fulfill my obligations. I just know next time to plan a cottage vacation for that exact weekend on a seconds notice. I don't want to deal with this again.

Kosmo is fine after being humped/hurt yesterday. Thanks for asking. The dog just kind of cupped himself on top of Kosmo and he's so passive he just kind of rolled into a little ball and said "MOMMY HELP!" hehe .. I got him out right away and yelled at Autumn but he didn't seemed to care much. Avi was right there to rescue him too.

I've noticed throughout today when I went over to feed him and he was humping me that the only way I can get him to listen is by actually shouting at him! If I yell at him loudly then he will get down. I have tried ignoring the humping and turning the other way but it really does hurt. I'm no skinny minny but he has claws the size of a mammoth and it penetrates my extra padding quite easily!! If I say NO, OFF, and BAD DOG loudly then he wil get off for a bit. Thank God. The second I start showing him any attention though he's right back at it.

Speaking about the unneutered part... thank GOD I got Kosmo done. I am thanking myself every second I am out with this dog! I never know when he's done peeing!! lol he never realy pees just a little here and alittle there. I try to keep him out until he lifts his leg and nothing comes out. I don't know if it's right but I am hoping that means he's all empty.. lol :P

Thank goodness that lady is coming there tonight. I am just going to take him out to the front to do his duties then it's right back to the old woman. I don't ever see him walking too far anyhow so it's probably no differnce to him if he gets a walk or not.

Kosmo and I walk 20 mins in the morning with a pee break before we leave, 20 mins after work.. another pee break, 20 mins around 8 or so, and then another pee break before bed... that's all without playing fetch in the house or outside or anything.

I think this experience is God's way of showing me how much of an angel Kosmo really is, lol. I think I have also learned I will probably have only cavaliers the rest of my life. The sooner I accept it, the sooner I can get on with my life. hehe :)

Anyways thank you guys so much!! If the lady wasn't coming I thought about seeing about a kennel but I don't know if he 's had a kennel cough vaccine and I wouldn't want to be responsible if he got it while he was there. Also I would love nothing more than to leave him to be neutered.. BELIEVE ME!!! Thank GOD I never had to deal with the unneutered male part..

How do all the unneutered male owners do it?! I think I would lose my mind!!

Cathy T
4th August 2006, 11:40 PM
I think these people are just not responsible owners. Sounds like the dog is an afterthought. Whereas...as I'm sure is the case with pretty much everyone here...Jake and Shelby come before all else!!

I think it's great that you are doing what you can.

Karlin
5th August 2006, 12:39 AM
Given the behaviour of the dog and the poeple -- I will be surprised if they still own this dog in 6 months' time. This is the classic situation in which the dog goes to the pound and that is it for the dog.

There's a couple of important things I'd like to clarify. First: Neutering is actually not the issue here. An intact male dog can be perfectly behaved, as most are that I get in rescue. However they do tend to mark a bit more, especially trying this inside if not well trained. What you are experiencing with this dog is a mix of an unrestrained ill behaved dog that also is not neutered, the latter contributing to the problem but not causing it. Believe me many neutered dogs, male and female, do the same humping behaviour you are experiencing. But neutering tends to greatly lower the chance of it and also make for a calmer dog. Also neutered males tend to lift their legs outside just as much as unneutered males! If Kosmo is still under 12 months you probably are not yet seeing this behaviour, but you almost certainly will as it would be rare to have a male that just goes once and is done (that is puppy behaviour). Males do not start marking on walks until they begin to reach sexual maturity and hence wish to mark their territory. Both mine have to wee on endless corners of houses, poles, car tires etc on any walk. :roll: Whereas Lily goes once or twice. The boys began this at about 9-10 months and it wasn;t until they reached about 18 months that it became a very clearly defined and regular behaviour on walks.

Treats are also definitely not a necessity in any dog's life. If anything they probably contribute significantly to dog health problems now because people give lots of treats and never subtract them from the daily caloric intake -- meaning lots of fat dogs, and also lots of dogs that can learn to have expectations of being fed dribs and drabs all the time, which isn't good, IMHO. I'd be very cautious of having treats regularly on offer -- a couple of small things as a reward for actually doing something a couple times a day perhaps (the no free lunch approach), but not as an expectation. Also, a dog that has never learned to take food gently tends to leap and grab, it isn't breed related but more individual personalities and training. Jaspar was always gentle; Leo snatched when I first got him and Lily does it now! (we are working on it). It is basically a matter of someone taking time to train the dog to take food gently.

Beagles are extremely energetic dogs so one thing you definitely are seeing is the breed difference between a cavalier, which tends to be a fairly placid, low key dog, and a beagle, which is bred to track, to run on the hunt for miles, and be very independent. They are headstrong and stubborn dogs and not easy to train. They also mature much later than cavaliers, like labs and some other breeds, so you get a lot of wild puppy behaviour well after the dog is adult sized and if no one has trained him, that is also contributing to the problem.

In other words what you are seeing is a classic mistake -- people decide to get a breed without doing any research at all and end up with a dog they find hard to handle with characteristics they might not want. To be fair, the same thing happens with cavaliers -- some people get a cavalier and find they do not want what they see as a clingy dog that wants its owner in eyesight all the time and follows its people around the house and can have separation anxiety.

I'd not bother walking him as it is so difficult, and also leave a note explaining the problems you had with this dog and note they may have difficulty finding a kennel or pet sitter to manage the dog in future unless they get him neutered and into obedience classes, which would calm him and help him learn some self-control. One exuberant, unintentional nip or one situation where he knocks a child down and that dog will be taken in and PTS. I'd also note that you could barely control him and that he was almost impossible to manage as well as hurting you, even if unintentionally. They need a serious wake-up call.

WoodHaven
5th August 2006, 01:07 AM
Well trained, unneutered cavaliers are easy. I have NEVER been humped by them and none of my guests or family have been. I train my boys early that all people are ahead of them on the heirarchy-- remember that most of that is a display of dominant behavior (not sexual usually at all). Sandy

Cathy T
5th August 2006, 01:36 AM
I'm going to pop in and say that most of the issues with this dog are issues on the owner's part...not the dog. The humping, grabbing and unrestrained behavior are a matter of the owner not teaching the dog proper behavior. Shoot....if I didn't work with Jake and Shelby they would be likely to hump, grab and be wild. I work with them...and oftentimes they still have to be reminded. Shelby has a terrible "alligator mouth" and will take your finger off given the chance. She has been taught "gentle" and usually remembers it.

WoodHaven
5th August 2006, 01:43 AM
I agree that the dogs' issues are based on the owners lack of guidance. My only point was that the neuter-unneutered issue really isn't the basis of the problem. Many dogs that are neutered will do the same thing if they aren't redirected.

Cathy T
5th August 2006, 01:44 AM
My only point was that the neuter-unneutered issue really isn't the basis of the problem. Many dogs that are neutered will do the same thing if they aren't redirected.

Couldn't agree with you more!!

arasara
5th August 2006, 02:34 AM
Update:

So the mother of the lady came in tonight and told me something kinda funny.. apparently the owner couldn't board him in a kennel because they wouldn't accept unneutered males.. Not sure why but that is apparently their policy. That adds to the fact as to why she was in tears..

She did call and apologize for all of the problems I have been having though because I discussed them with both herself and her mother in detail. Autumn was alright tonight - still all of the same problems I have just managed to deal with them myself and tried to show him "whos boss." I just have to loudly and firmly say no instead of just my normal ah ah and no. I got him to eat a bit and to stop humping me so much though which is good... Like I said before I do think it's largely owner negligence as to why he misbehaves. I am not directly blaming the problem because he is unneutered and in no way did I mean to insinuate that. I just thought that it added to the humping thing. I blamed the excessive humping on the non neutering thing because my whole life I have known dogs who hump people like crazy *esp females* and then get fixed and the problem seems to all but disappear. So if I am misguided on that I am sorry.. .. The mother of the lady told me that the man of the house has actually smacked him with a belt a few times!! :yikes :yikes I really hope they can get him under control in a nice manner without any pounds or being PTS. What an unfortunate situation. I don't blame the dog at all though.


When I talked to the lady today she said to just let him out once in the morning and once in the night. I can't imagine why he'de only have to go 2 times in 24 hours but apparently she said that's how they do it there? I guess her orders are her orders.

But I do think the problem is not with the dog it's just the lack of training that he's had. I am sure all of the behaviors that he's exhibiting are typical of a dog who hasn't been worked with well. I don't think the dog is dumb in the least part because I got him to stop jumping on me within 5 jumps and he won't do it again. I don't think he's a bad dog, just is a pain for me because I'm totally used to the opposites.

Kosmo has lots of treats "in storage." I keep lots at the house and he does get a few charlee bears (the 3 cal treats) every day but I give him one good treat per day.. I got him these all natural smoked chicken breasts that he really likes and these tbone things like the one I *tried* to give autumn.. He ate 2 and now decided he hates them so I guess Autumn will at least have something. :\ We also have different bones that I consider to be treats. We break out a new one about once a week (rawhides and booda bones and stuff.) He just gets the "good" treats once a day though. He gets the charlee bears when I work with him. We're in the first stage of learning how to heel now.. (: I just expected to at least see something in their house.. I don't know anything just there was nothing.. nothing for the dog in the house besides his crate I just thought it was odd. No dog bed or anything.

ANyways I am starting to get hard spots on my hands from the pulling so I am greatful that she said she only takes him out twice per day. I guess I have just learned how lucky I am through this experience. And also how absolutely important it is to ensure that dogs have the proper training from the get-go. I have learned my lessons in being too nice of a neighbor, lol, and also learned again why I love Kosmo so much. :luv: He's such a doll. Tonight he actually fell asleep when I cut his nails. :lotsaluv:

judy
5th August 2006, 05:43 AM
wow. my first thought was really evil. I was going to suggest you just leave the dog free in their house and let him have "accidents" all over the place for them to come home to. That will insure they don't manipulate you into being responsible for their dog again. But then you said the MIL was coming, wouldn't want to inflict that on her.

Anyway, when you said that a positive thing about the situation was that you will be able to count on these people to look after Kosmo, now that you have helped them out, i cringed. These do not sound like people who can be trusted to take good care of a dog, they seem rather insensitive and careless, immature and irresponsible. I'm sure they are very nice, seriously, friendly and well intentioned, but they took advantage of you and thought nothing of it. They really should've put the dog in a kennel. If he's not vaccinated, that shouldn't be your problem.

You are very big hearted and kind. sorry about your shirt. Hopefully you won't end up taking care of him again. Poor little guy, staying in a crate all day and night, he has no way of knowing what appropriate behavior is. He sounds like a nice dog basically, smart enough to respond when you used a strong voice with him. Too bad. Good luck to the MIL. At least, like you say, it's good to enjoy your appreciation of Kosmo, and you can feel that appreciation for yourself, as you have helped to bring out the best in him.