PDA

View Full Version : new food need advice



pippa
1st September 2006, 10:22 PM
When we got pippin ( 2 and 1/2) he had runny stools from day one. We had lots of investigations and tried different foods and to make a long story short he seems to be sensitve to anything which contains poultry including plain old cooked chicken which we unknowingly gave him when he was very bad and just made him worse! We finally settled on Eukanuba Lamb and Rice which he tolerated for nearly two years then got constant colitis he has been wormed and treated with various antibiotics and steroids and our vet suggested changing his food to Hills science plan adult lamb and rice. He is now fully changed over( we did it gradually) but although his stools are hard he is doing lots of it , he is tiny but he seems to be going a lot and it looks like an elephant went! Also we have always split the days feed, he gets fed at night and in the morning when we get up but since going on this food he doesn't wait for us to wake but is waking hungery at 6 in the morning and seems to be hungery all the time,he's always been a little greedy but he seems genuinely hungery.

I changed Gus (4) onto this food too and he seems to do a lot of poo aswell but is apparently satisfied.

The guy in our local pet store suggested royal canine sensitive but I think it contains poultry. Has anyone any advice. Should I stick with the hills?

Moviedust
1st September 2006, 10:45 PM
There are lots of posts about food on the board, so I encourage you to use the site's search function (see link at top of page) to do a bit of research on previous threads.

My opinion is that the Hills food isnt the best, despite what the vet says. Royal Canine has a high review from many on this board. If it has poultry, see if there's a variety of Royal Canine that doesnt. While it is a good food, there are lots of other good foods out there with non-poultry varieties. Many of them are listed (as well as links to evaluation sites!) in existing threads.

Karlin
2nd September 2006, 03:42 PM
I would recommend trying James Wellbeloved which do a fish, a duck, a turkey and a lamb diet. One is specifically designed as a sensitive dog diet (there's a westie on the package if I remember correctly) -- looks like this is the duck diet. Fish and lamb are both hyp-allergenic.

The ingredients are excellent and I have friends with sensitive-stomach westies that have had great success with it. I feed it to my crowd.

Most pet shops in Ireland should carry it and if you are in Dublin Pet Stop has it and Tara and Lisa at Dog training Ireland can order it in at a discount as well (though they are away for the next 2 weeks). I'd get a smaller bag and try it out. You may find the duck or fish suits.

http://www.wellbeloved.co.uk/

You can read about each of the types if you click into the dog section.

Maxxs_Mummy
2nd September 2006, 11:40 PM
Have a look here as well

http://www.burns-pet-nutrition.co.uk/store/index.html

Excellent food and it has improved my dogs' coats and health no end. Maxx now has so much more energy since he's been on this food :) He kept getting colitis and itchy flaky skin but it's now cleared up.

Charlie has allergies to just about everything and kept vomiting his food back up but has also been OK on Burns.

Karlin
2nd September 2006, 11:57 PM
Burns is good too. Hills does have some ingredients including several grains that can be annoying to dogs.

Cavaliers are ALWAYS hungry, with very rare exceptions. They are amongst a small group of breeds that are actually identified as being prone to obesity as they will overeat (you might notice that there is a CAVALIER on the bag for Royal Canin's Light dog food. :roll: ). So be strict on amounts fed, keep him lean, and try feeding fruit and veg and see if that agrees with him; don't worry about him seeming hungry as all three of mine are perpetually hungry :lol: I have spent the summer removing two kilos (so far) off of Lily, who came from the pound and was enprmously fat. Most dogs tolerate fruit and veg very well, they help add roughage for good stools, and have few calories as dogs can't really digest them and they are low in cals anyway.

I recommend reading this page:

http://roycroftcavaliers.com/manualfeeding.htm

and also this:

http://www.cavaliertalk.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=465

judy
3rd September 2006, 11:22 AM
that seems weird that he's having massive stools and is ravenously hungry.
that could be either a good thing or a bad thing, or perhas an irrelevant thing, but i can see why you're wondering about it.

glad to hear he's not having colitis now.

pippa
3rd September 2006, 01:09 PM
Thanks for all the advice guys. Gus now does not seem to like the Hills and as he is a little on the heavy side I have decided to change him to Royal canin light ( gradually of course).


I tried both of mine on burns before but it didn't agree with either of them.

Unfortunatly Pippin sems to have returned to soft blood tinged stools despite eating nothing but Hills,and I have been watching him like a hawk to see nothing else passes his lips ( hard work!). So sadly its back to the vet as soon as I can get an appointment if things don't improve today.My vet had said if the hills science plan doesn't work Pippin will need to go on a prescription diet.I'll let you know how things go.

merlinsmum
3rd September 2006, 02:14 PM
I must have a wierd one! - Merlin is not greedy with food at all. He will make a fuss for his tea ( he is on one meal a day) ONLY if we have been on an outing such as camping/being out all weekend.

He doesn't beg for food - only for a bit of cheese when you are cooking.

The only things I can guarantee that he will eat come what may are bakers nibbles and dentastix.

I've tried carrots etc but he licks them and thats it! I've recently found that he is a bit partial to empty mandarin youghurt pot licks!

I'd rather him be that way - at least I can keep him nice and trim with relative ease.

Maybe when (99% sure its a yes) his brother arrives he may be a bit braver! and try a few more things.... ;)

amanda L
3rd September 2006, 04:03 PM
Hi Pippa, I recently switched to James Well Beloved and I have to say its def. the best kibble I've fed so far, and my dogs love it :p . I make up stews aswell, lamb, pork stews and add it to the kibble, clean bowls every mealtime ;) Elliot is completely sensitive to poultry aswell, no chicken in anything, even tiny treats containing chicken give him severe diarhorea and colitis.

Karlin
3rd September 2006, 04:28 PM
Just rereading your post:

Don;t get up to feed him earlier and earlier. He's simply training you to feed him when he wants, now that he's realised you will serve him in this way. :lol:

Even if he barks, ignore him and get up at your waking time and feed him then. Otherwise he will keep going earlier and earlier and will figure he can get you up anytime for a response too. You are rewarding his demands if you are feeding him.

I'd forget the light food, or the special diet, and try something like James Wellbeloved fish. If he is fat, then cut back the amount he is fed. Try cutting back by a third, and if that's not enough, by half. If he is pooping a lot it sounds like it's too much food and not food he is digesting well. If he is small he probably shouldn't be getting more than about a small coffee mug daily of food. Or about a third cup measure each meal. That will be only about two handfuls of dry food per meal.

Personally I prefer to avoid all those special diets too. Most stomach problems are resolved by finding a good bland food that the dog tolerates well. Ypou might even try some of the home cooked recipes in the Library section. This often works out much cheaper than feeding processed dog foods. I feed mostly homecooked stews with some dry (James Wellbeloved added). They get fresh fruit and veg as well.

Be very wary of treats as if you are giving him pigs ears, biscuits, chews... any of these may be causing the problems. Also has the vet checked for worms and giardia? Either of these can cause bloody stools and ongoing digestive problems.

pippa
3rd September 2006, 07:01 PM
Just rereading your post:

Don;t get up to feed him earlier and earlier. He's simply training you to feed him when he wants, now that he's realised you will serve him in this way. :lol:

Even if he barks, ignore him and get up at your waking time and feed him then. Otherwise he will keep going earlier and earlier and will figure he can get you up anytime for a response too. You are rewarding his demands if you are feeding him.


Easier said than done he wakes the whole house!
I'd forget the light food, or the special diet, and try something like James Wellbeloved fish. If he is fat, then cut back the amount he is fed. Try cutting back by a third, and if that's not enough, by half. Its gus who needs to cut down and he's very healthy otherwise. If he is pooping a lot it sounds like it's too much food and not food he is digesting well. If he is small he probably shouldn't be getting more than about a small coffee mug daily of food. Or about a third cup measure each meal. That will be only about two handfuls of dry food per meal. Thats all I give pippin and he gets no treats


Personally I prefer to avoid all those special diets too. Most stomach problems are resolved by finding a good bland food that the dog tolerates well. Ypou might even try some of the home cooked recipes in the Library section. This often works out much cheaper than feeding processed dog foods. I feed mostly homecooked stews with some dry (James Wellbeloved added). They get fresh fruit and veg as well.

Be very wary of treats as if you are giving him pigs ears, biscuits, chews... any of these may be causing the problems. Also has the vet checked for worms and giardia? Either of these can cause bloody stools and ongoing digestive problems. Thanks again for the advice. I don't give him any of these and yes we did all those investigations

I'm starting Gus on the royal canin I'll see how it goes and pippin will have to see what the vet says,as aswell as his colitis he is allergic ( big time) to anything at all containing chicken and maybe poultry of any sort.

Gus is the total opposite really healthy and rarely sick he just needs to lose a few pounds as he is just starting to look a little chunky round the butt : :lol:

judy
3rd September 2006, 10:40 PM
...Pippin sems to have returned to soft blood tinged stools despite eating nothing but Hills,and I have been watching him like a hawk to see nothing else passes his lips ( hard work!). So sadly its back to the vet as soon as I can get an appointment if things don't improve today.My vet had said if the hills science plan doesn't work Pippin will need to go on a prescription diet.I'll let you know how things go.

zack was put on prescription diet when he had colitis, it was made by Hills and it was called ID Diet. I didn't like the look of the ingredients on the label. I pointed out to the vet that it had corn in it for example. Corn is a pretty common allergen. The vet shrugged and seemed to imply this was just all there was to choose from, probably not familiar with the premium store brands that include low allergen options. (The ID prescription diet did not clear up the symptoms, and zack refused to eat it anyway. It was nasty, by my way of feeling about dog foods, it was smelly and sticky, and dry, it was hard to get off the spoon).

just curious, have you tried Innova Evo, or if it's not available, some other brand that has no grain in it at all and higher protein than the usual formulas? Zack's stools are smaller on that and darker. It's richer and more like cat food in the sense of having more protein in it, and it gave zack gas in the beginning. I now sprinkle digestive enzyme powder on it, as recommended by the pet store, and have not been smelling gas since i started doing that. It may just be his body has adjusted to it.

If his hunger is dramatically increased, along with loose stool, i do think of worms--just from hearing all my life, when a child has a huge appetite, people sometimes kid around and say "oh, he has a tape worm." I know you said pippa was wormed. Was it a broad spectrum medication?

I feel for you, it's so hard to have a chronic thing that doesn't have a known cause and you are shooting in the dark.

Have you tried him on Tylan/Tylosin yet? If not, ask the vet about it. He can take it long term as an anti-diarrheal, it's supposed to be very lacking in side effects, and only a small amount is given to small animals Zack was given "a little less than 1/16th teaspoon a day," as the vet said, laughing and telling me i was going to have a hard time measuring it because there is no such thing as a 1/16 tsp, and i would have to first measure an eigth, then cut that in half, then give a little less than that. I have a bag of the yellow powder in my cabinet. Some vets dispense it in capsules. I can't say for sure if it helped Zack because he was wormed a few days later and abruptly lost all his symptoms but i have known three people who report that it helped a lot with their dogs' colitis/diarrhea. It's so safe that it is sometimes given indefinitely for chronic colitis. My friend's dog took it for about 2 years. The vet wanted her to continue it beyond that but she felt the dog had been asymptomatic for so long, it was worth a try stopping it, and there was no return of the symptoms. She also consults with dog nutritionist Cat Lane and she credits those consultations with making her dog well. The dog is diagnosed with Addisons disease.

pippa
4th September 2006, 10:13 AM
Thanks for that gosh that Hills ID sounds horrible don't think I'll try that if it is suggested. Pippin is fine today no loose stools and it is starting to get a little less in volume, I'm still not 100% happy enough with the hills I feel it is not filling him. He woke this morning at 6 and I tried to ignore him but he got Gus involved and they could be heard I'm sure for miles, so I took them up to my bed and instead of settling down ( they did seem to try) pippin just cried and sighed and and kept it up until I was getting up at 8.

Now he is snoring and I have to go to work tired!

He was wormed with a complete all round wormer three weeks ago.

Anyway he is fine today and looking back we are not sure now if he is allergic to poultry as we found out it was in food he ate before with no effect ,It may have been just bouts of colitis ,maybe he is just allergic to pure fresh chicken which does cause a bad reation with him. I am considering trying him with royal canin sensible but am a bit nervous of the poultry ingrediants.

Oh well we will see how it goes tomorrow morning.

It's lucky I love them so much or I wouldn't be this patient with the little rascal!

pippa
11th September 2006, 12:35 AM
Hi everyone, just wanted to say both dogs are doing fine now and as you can see I have a picture of them as my avatar.

Maxxs_Mummy
11th September 2006, 12:51 AM
Glad they're both OK now. What food did you get them settled on in the end? Which is which of them as well?

pippa
11th September 2006, 01:05 AM
Gus is on royal canin mini light, he is the blenhiem and pippin is settled on the hills lamb and rice( for now!) he is the Tri.

Maxxs_Mummy
11th September 2006, 11:09 AM
They're gorgeous boys and I'm really glad you've got them settled. Nothing worse than food worries and poorly babies :?