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cecily
3rd November 2006, 02:01 PM
Karlin, I hope it's ok to post this... feel free to delete :?

We were at the vets today collecting Tandie and I was having a long chat with the vet. nurse. We got onto talking about breeding standards in Ireland and she told me about a very good friend of hers (let's call her Mary) who is an excellent breeder of GSD.

Mary discovered that a dog of hers who died 3 years ago has sired several litters of pups quite recently :shock: . Some unethical backyard breeder was using her dogs pedigree for his own male dog. He obviously knew that her dog had died and decided his champion pedigree would look good on paper. So there are registered puppies out there with a deceased dog registered as their father. The crazy thing is, Mary had registered her own dog as having died, so he has 'officially' passed on. But this didn't stop others registering him as the father of new litters.

How is this even possible? The vet nurse also told us that she had been 'offered' papers for a GSD she rescued some time ago. Somebody said to her "oh that dog looks like one of mine that died, I can get you papers for her".

Just goes to show that you can't take papers as proof of pedigree.

Karlin
3rd November 2006, 02:50 PM
Make sure the vet know to tell the woman to report this to the IKC and they will ban the BYB trying to do this. She must let them know!

Sadly this is a well known practice in many places. My own breeder of cavaliers told me of seeing puppies from somewhere don in the south with the 'father' a cavalier that had died a decade ago.

The IKC is very small and only just getting computerised but even with computers -- in places like tha AKC in the US -- there are often reports of this happening. It's why some international clubs are moving to requiring DNA verification of parentage. The mandatory chipping of all puppies, now a requirement of the IKC, is one step towards making it hard to claim wrong parents.

Basically it is hard to verify parentage which is why you cannot trust any claims by brokers, BYBs, puppy farms, established breeders who are unethical. Some breeders will list puppies as coming from a different parent completely to give it 'champion lines' while people also list dead dogs as parents (same reason) or to get official registration in the first place as the parents must be registered dogs. They will also change date of birth so they home the puyppies underage (less cost to them).

Even established well known breeders have been known to falsify records -- to make a puppy look older than it is or younger, from a better line, etc etc. The topic comes up now and then on the main breeder lists.

estelle
3rd November 2006, 04:43 PM
This is really worrying :yikes
As some of you may know we have our doubts about Charlies background/breeder ethics etc :x
How do we ever know who to trust???

Barbara Nixon
3rd November 2006, 06:41 PM
In the early 1970s we wanted a springer spaniel, so a work colleague, who showed and bred gsds, asked a show colleague to get us a puppy, as he knew someone who had a litter. (I would never get a dog this way nowadays, of course)

Cindy was a healthy puppy, so there were no problems until we got a second springer, a year later, and compared the pedigrees. Some of the lines didn't agree, so I took out a book from the library and looked them up. Sally, the younger dog's lines were fine, but in the other case along pedigree had had the middle section cut out, thus bringing well know dogs nearer.

The colleague did some searching and contacted the original breeder, who was completely innocent. it had been the colleague' friend' who did the altering and raised the price accordingly. He hadn't, of course, as he told maggie, chosen the best bitch in the litter. he's picked up puppies until he found a bitch and took that one.

Maggie found that the man had tried the same trick, recently with a gsd, so reported both cases to the KC. They were not interested, as Cindy was over a year old and but they were supposed to be looking into the other case. I never heard the outcome , because Maggie changed jobs and I didnt see her again.