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lily
8th November 2006, 09:29 PM
has any of your pups had any reactions to teir vaccs??

Barbara Nixon
8th November 2006, 09:46 PM
Joly's mum did, but neither he nor his sister was affected. Daisy had breathing problems within half an hour, but was soon sorted by a jab from the vet. he said she would be allergic to the egg albumen used as a carrier for the vaccine.

Karlin
8th November 2006, 09:49 PM
There was just a long discussion on this a few days ago in this section, here:

http://www.cavaliertalk.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=4567

There's also info in the Health library. If you want to see what other people have said in the past, try using the search feature up on the menu bar of the site -- I am sure you'll find plenty of previous discussions around this area. :thmbsup:

lily
9th November 2006, 10:29 PM
thanks

didnt read tomuch as to scare myself of whatever. Anyway she had her 1st & has slept from 5.30 til now 9.30pm.... keeps looking now & again & going back of to sleep. Vet said she'd feel drowsey bless her she really yelped when she got the needle... :shock:

Cathy T
10th November 2006, 12:45 AM
We had a very interesting speaker at our club last night. Her name is Jan Rasmusen and she's published a book called "Scared Poopless" She has a 4 lb Maltese name Chiclet who became very ill with an immune problem. She's spent 2 years researching everything from vaccinations to food. She was a fabulous speaker. I picked up her book last night and plan to start reading tonight. She addresses vaccines. Between her opinions and Jean Dodd's protocol I'm very much up in the air as far as whether to booster or not. Jake was titered 3 years ago and of course is now due. Also his rabies is also due. I DO NOT want to vaccinate for rabies but can't get a city license if I don't. Still not clear but will continue to research.

Remali
10th November 2006, 04:26 AM
I am really in a quandry over vaccinations too. My Bentley is due for his vaccinations and rabies this month, he turned a year this past June (we did all the puppy shots last year). I am so afraid of reactions, and of over-doing the vaccines, that I'm not sure at all what to do..... I'm glad that this has been brought up here.

judy
10th November 2006, 08:23 AM
This is on my mind too. Zack just turned one year. Now, i'm facing whether to get boosters. And i've not yet had his first rabies shot.

I frequently hear from dog owners about vaccination reactions. I know that occurances of adverse reactions are greatly underreported to the vaccine manufacturers. No way of knowing what the real odds are. what worries me more than immediate reactions, is the possibility of long term weakening of basic health, creating progressive chaos in the immune system.

To me, the question is, is the vaccination necessary. Zack already had all but one of his puppy shots when i got him, and i believed at the time that the last shot was necessary so i had it done. Today, I would have titers done before getting the third shot and if there was evidence of a good immune reaction to the earlier shots, i wouldn't have any reason to get the last one. I wish i had known then what i know now, i'm sorry Zack was exposed to that last unnecessary shot and the suffering it caused him, even though the suffering was "mild." It was unnecessary suffering.

As for rabies, like Cathy, i want to have Zack licensed, and it has bothered me not having him licensed. Sometimes, the animal control people come to the dog park that we go to. I am leaning toward getting the rabies vaccination, but for a legal reason rather than a medical one. i'm still undecided.

Yesterday, I took Zack to Jean Dodds for titers and a consult. He also had complete bloodwork and an exam, and toenail clipping. Jean was quite matter of fact about vaccinations and titers. She stated that titers are reliable tests of immunity. She believes dogs who have evidence of immunity in titers don't need vaccination, and unneeded vaccinations should be avoided since they are risky.

She understands the legal need for rabies vax aside from medical necessity, and said that if one is going to vaccinate their dog for rabies, it is helpful to give the homeopathic remedy, lyssine, three days before and two days after--or maybe it was the other way around, two days before and three days after, i have it written down.

I asked about the rabies challenge study. She said that they are far short of the funding they need, she mentioned how much they need and how much they have, which i think was about half. She said she thinks they'll have enough to begin next February i think. Then she said the funding would continue to come in each year to keep the study going once it gets started.

She said the goal of the study is to provide proof that rabies vax provide immunity for over 7 years, and to provide the evidenciary basis for a revision of the current rabies requirements so that the vaccination will be required only every 5 years for licensing purposes. She said that the current 3 year protocol is too frequent, much more frequent than necessary.

I got Zack's blood test results back today, she left me a message on my machine saying his results are "perfect," he is in perfect health as far as his complete bloodwork goes. She mentioned the low platelets, saying that in cavaliers, that was normal. The titer results weren't back yet.

Cathy, that book sounds interesting.

Barbara Nixon
10th November 2006, 11:49 AM
We don't have rabies here (touch wood) but vets will tell you of the bad results of not vaccinating are far worse. Lots of dogs die from parvo and I actually saw a dog with distemper. It was terrible to see; a large gsd, his coat was stary, his eyes and nose running with pussand his back hunched through nerve spasm and pain. Luckily the receptionist noticed the owner coming in the door and called a vet who immediately ordered him back to his vehickle and had the entrance disinfected. I worried about my dog for weeks, even though she was vaccinated.

Among human children, some of the once common diseases became rare, but are on the increase, now, because of the reduction in vaccination. I fear the same will happen to the dog population.

Cathy Moon
10th November 2006, 12:28 PM
I've seen the permanent after affects of distemper, and it isn't pretty. I would sooner have the dog pts than live that way. :cry*ing:

mishmosh
10th November 2006, 07:57 PM
has any of your pups had any reactions to teir vaccs??

My 9 week old pup had his first jab a few days ago. He was poorly and lathargic for the rest of the day. He really yelped when he got the needle, poor old thing! I wish the vet's nurse held him now!!

My cat was was the same for 48 hrs. It made me feel terrible!

WoodHaven
10th November 2006, 08:52 PM
This is on my mind too. Zack just turned one year. Now, i'm facing whether to get boosters. And i've not yet had his first rabies shot.


I could not in good conscience skip the rabies shot where I live. Many wild mammals can carry hydrophobia <rabies>. If my dogs even scratched a person-- I could get in trouble. This is one zoonotic disease that everyone takes seriously here.

judy
10th November 2006, 10:43 PM
We don't have rabies here (touch wood) but vets will tell you of the bad results of not vaccinating are far worse. Lots of dogs die from parvo and I actually saw a dog with distemper. It was terrible to see; a large gsd, his coat was stary, his eyes and nose running with pussand his back hunched through nerve spasm and pain. Luckily the receptionist noticed the owner coming in the door and called a vet who immediately ordered him back to his vehickle and had the entrance disinfected. I worried about my dog for weeks, even though she was vaccinated.

Among human children, some of the once common diseases became rare, but are on the increase, now, because of the reduction in vaccination. I fear the same will happen to the dog population.

Here is a quote from a really informative and comprehensive article published by the Israeli Veterinary Medical Association on international trends in vaccination of dogs and cats from 2004, raising these concerns, near the conclusion of a lengthy detailed report on research and evidence supporting trends away from frequent vaccination/boostering:


... It is unanimously accepted that current vaccination programs in small animal practice have played a crucial role in the prevention of devastating infectious diseases with an associated decline in their morbidity and mortality (1-4). While the reduction in unnecessary vaccination is desirable, veterinarians should keep in mind that outbreaks of previously controlled endemic diseases might occur if the number of vaccinated animals in a given population falls below a certain threshold. Furthermore it must be stressed that the effects of changing and extending the vaccination interval on the canine and feline population immunity is largely unknown. An example of an unfavorable outcome to decline in vaccination in humans is pertussis, a respiratory disease (36). This disease is readily controlled by an efficacious vaccine that resulted in the disease becoming rarer. In the course of time attention shifted from disease prevention to possible adverse effects associated with vaccination, and resulted in antivaccine movements in some countries. One study has shown that the incidence of pertussis was lower by a factor of 10 to 100 in countries in which high vaccine coverage was maintained compared to countries in which vaccination programs were compromised. On the other hand the World Health Organization has decided to discontinue oral poliomyelitis vaccination when no wild-type poliovirus transmission is detected in the world for 3 consecutive years. This type of decision can only be carried out using an efficient surveillance program. Similar programs to evaluate the incidence of disease in pets do not exist, so decisions based on this type of rationale are not applicable in small animal veterinary medicine.

Karlin
12th November 2006, 02:06 AM
As far as I know it is the law that dogs have to be vaccinated for rabies everywhere in the US. If people do not vaccinate for rabies they put the human population at risk of this extremely painful and often deadly condition, whatever the personal view about one's own dogs. Get the three year vaccine if you have an issue with it but an unvaccinated dog is a public health risk.

I've seen dogs at the vets with both parvo and distemper and both diseases are hideous and it is the lucky dog that survives either. With either they generally need to go into extremely expensive ICU-type care, on drips -- we are talking easily costing thousands here -- and in the case of puppies the survival rate is very low (whole litters from the pound are sometimes lost to parvo, where there are lots of unvaccinated dogs generally). Once you lose herd immunity (eg once the population drops below a threshold of vaccinated animals -- or people) the risks become significant across a population.

Just be aware when considering not vaccinating that 1) in many places you do not have a choice with rabies and 2) three years between vaccinations is considered the maximum safe window given that titers are not necessarily accurate and can be wildly inaccurate.

Judy, you need to get the one year booster under Dr Dodds schedule. Then you can go to the three year scehdule. But the puppy vax series is not considered enough over the life of the dog.

judy
14th November 2006, 11:49 PM
...Judy, you need to get the one year booster under Dr Dodds schedule. Then you can go to the three year scehdule. But the puppy vax series is not considered enough over the life of the dog.

Karlin, i consulted with Dr Dodds. :lol: I was planning to have the boosters done. I emailed her with some questions about it. In the email, I told her about Zack's one day reaction to his last shot (feverish, crying, generalized and injection site pain, subdued). (i also described his month long bout of colitis and vomiting before and after the vaccination). I asked her if some vaccine brands were known to be safer than others. I asked whether it would be better to give the distemper and parvo separately or in combination as is usually done. She suggested i get titers done and then decide whether to have the vaccination. So i took him to her Hemopet clinic to get the titers done at a lab i could have the most confidence in, since she's a vaccine researcher, and his titers were adequate, so i am not having the booster at this point. I am still trying to learn all i can on all sides of this issue. I guess there is a pendulum effect. It was once hard to find any support for a minimal vaccination practice. Now, i've not yet been able to find research reports supporting the traditional approach searching the web.