PDA

View Full Version : why would she wet her bed?



Harley & Carley
9th December 2006, 02:28 PM
We have our very first beautiful baby girl - 12 weeks old tomorrow. She is litter trained and will pee outside as well. She sleeps in a crate at night with just enough room for her bed and a litter box. Over the last day or two, she has wet the bed in her crate at night and the bed in her playpen. Both places have litter boxes which are just inches away. She is continuing to use the litter box most of the time, si I know she hasnt forgottern about it.
I am washing the beds over and over in hot water, but she is still wetting them.
What am I doing wrong?
Thanks so much!
Harley's mom

Katie
9th December 2006, 05:47 PM
My cavalier is also 13 weeks and is in a crate. I wonder whether your puppy's crate is too big for her? I used to block Scampi's crate off with a piece of wood (which I have taken out since she has been so reliable), so that she wouldn't be inclined to wee in one corner and curl up in another. I then decided to shut her in it at night at 11 weeks (because I accidentally did it one night and she was dry), and she has been dry since. I reckon that if you make the space she sleeps in small enough she will be forced to hang on if she's capable. The theory goes that if she can do it at night she will get better control during the day. We take her out to wee at 11 pm and 6 am. Good luck and let me know how you get on!

Karlin
9th December 2006, 06:52 PM
Congrats on your ne puppy and welcome to the board!

First, you want to eliminate a medical reason -- urinary tract infections are not uncommon in female puppies in particular and they will cause her to wet -- puppies also really like peeing on soft surfaces. This should be checked right away as they are very painful and can turn serious if left untreated (eg into kidney infections).

Second -- she is way, way to young to be fully house or litter trained. This takes weeks and weeks of work and making sure she never has the option to go anywhere else. At 12 weeks she is like a toddler who has barely begun to use a potty and ashe will keep having accidents -- she needs to be watched like a hawk and never left unsupervised or she will just start to go in other locations (don;t scold or punish for this, ever -- she needs you to be there to make sure she can always make the right choice, an gets rewadred for it! :)). Also I think you perhaps have too many options for her, which is very confusing. Does she need to be litter trained for any long term reason? If not I would be focusing only on going outside.

I would also recommend buying Shirlee Kalstone's How to Housetrain a Puppy in Seven Days (believe me it will take longer but she will know the basics). This book gives litter training as an option. But more important it sets out what you need to be doing short and long term and offers schedules etc for different training approaches.

Also as noted above having too much room in the crate can encourage them to eliminate there too. Kalstone goes into this in her book.

Harley & Carley
9th December 2006, 07:04 PM
but why would she start peeing on her bed? - i thought they wanted to keep their beds clean. I dd just run to the bookstore for the book and am getting ready to read it.

molly
9th December 2006, 07:56 PM
It sounds like you put a litter box in the crate with her. She will then think she can pee in the crate and cannot tell yet that bedding is not where you pee. The trick is that they not pee in the crate at all. hang in there. She will get it but it takes alot of time and patience.

judy
9th December 2006, 08:29 PM
does she then sleep on the bedding that she urinated on, or does she find a different spot to sleep?

i tend to think she is just confused because she is trained to go in the litter box, and she doesn't know why the bed, being a soft thing on the floor, is any different from a litter box. she's so young, she is just beginning the process of learning this fairly advanced skill, so it's reasonable for her to think the bed is like a litter box.

the usual way to give the message that the bed is for laying on and sleeping, and not for peeing on, is to have the crate small enough so that the bedding fills the whole crate, there is only enough room to turn around and stand up and stretch, but not to walk away from the bedding. then let her out often. Have the litter box outside the crate, separated from the bedding, to eliminate confusion. Let her out often and show her the litter box.

What method was used to litter box train her so far? You can also use wee wee pads, they're easy to clean up. Just have the litter box or wee wee pads or whatever in a space that is away from the sleeping and eating space, like near the door, or in the bathroom maybe.

I think just washing in hot water is probably not be enough to remove the scent of the urine. saturating the bed in enzyme cleaner made for removing pet odors is most certainly necessary. If the urine can't be reached by the cleaner (depending on how thick the bed is) you might need a new bed/pad. make sure to get any part of the floor that might have urine smell using the enzyme cleaner (the most well known brand is Natures Miracle but there are generic brands and pet store brands). (they also make a laundry detergent). if there's any leftover urine smell, however faint, that will tell the puppy she should go on that spot.

if you have to leave her for hours, and don't want to leave her in a small crate that long, you could put an xpen around theh crate and leave the crate door open, and put the litter box at the far end of the xpen, well away from the crate/bedding. but if she is going on her bedding, i think you might need to put a barrier between her and the litter box and then let her out frequently, to communicate what goes where.

for me, crating and frequent trips outside, and close supervision indoors, were the combined techniques that helped zack get the pattern of not going indoors. but he did pee on a vinyl covered foam pad that i put inside the xpen on the kitchen floor, in front of the open crate door. apparently it seemed like an appropriate peeing target to him.

Harley & Carley
9th December 2006, 08:36 PM
OK - so I take the litter box out of the crate that she sleeps in at night and just put the bed in there, and take her out about every 3 hours. She only weighs 4 pounds and really gets chilled outside-even with a sweater. Should I take her out even when it is really cold? How about if she doesnt go? Do I stay out or go again after a few minutes?


During the day, she has a playpen in our den with a bed and litter box too. the playpen is about 3ft by 5ft. She came from the breeder "litter-trained". Because I do have to leave the house periodically for a few hours at a time, I thought the litter box was a good idea because she is used to going in there and if she had to go, it would be there. I do take her out during the day when I am home, and reward her with a treat. She will usually go pee, but has not pooped outside despite my taking her litter poop outside and placing it where I want her to go.
I dont reward when she uses the litter box, and do clean it right away.

I have been feeding her in the playpen- I put it in there at mealtime and close the door for 10 minutes and then take away the food - -otherwise she is too "busy" to eat - she was used to grazing (self-feeding) before we got her, and I am trying to break that habit.

does this seem right? any other ideas?

Thanks so much fro the help - we are new puppy parents and not very experienced - we dont want to start bad habits!

judy
9th December 2006, 08:56 PM
but why would she start peeing on her bed? - i thought they wanted to keep their beds clean. I dd just run to the bookstore for the book and am getting ready to read it.

i think you're right, they want to keep their beds clean, but more particularly, their dens, their little space where they sleep. it's not so much the bedding as the space. putting a litter box into her den (crate) gives her a message that inside the crate is where she goes to the bathroom, she is closed in and can't escape so she learns that she must go inside her den, even though that's not what she would naturally do. She is just trying to adapt.

Dogs, and cats too, may target soft shapes on the floor as peeing spots, like piles of clothes, or a towel, or a pillow.

If the bedding filled her crate and the crate was small enough, then she would very likely wait to be let out before peeing.

she doesn't know the difference between a bed and a wee wee pad at this point, unless the bed fills her small space and she doesn't have room to pee on without having to lay in it.

That's pretty much how crate training works. And it generally works fast and effectively, a great way to have some control over the timing, and to train them to sleep through the night.

judy
9th December 2006, 09:15 PM
OK - so I take the litter box out of the crate that she sleeps in at night and just put the bed in there, and take her out about every 3 hours. She only weighs 4 pounds ....

especially with her being so small, you would need a pretty small crate to make sure she doesn't have too much room. Too much room will tell her she is to pee inside the crate.



She only weighs 4 pounds and really gets chilled outside-even with a sweater. Should I take her out even when it is really cold? How about if she doesnt go? Do I stay out or go again after a few minutes?

it's not very cold where i live. hopefully some people from more arctic regions will weigh in on that one..


During the day, she has a playpen in our den with a bed and litter box too. the playpen is about 3ft by 5ft. She came from the breeder "litter-trained". Because I do have to leave the house periodically for a few hours at a time, I thought the litter box was a good idea because she is used to going in there and if she had to go, it would be there.

that makes sense. but she should very soon be able to "hold it" for a few hours. the only problem with leaving her with a litter box is that you are counteracting the message about not going in the living space, but if your outdoor situation is too harsh to use the outside, then generally i think putting the litterbox near the door to the outiside gives the message better than putting it near the food and water and toys and bed. but your reason for doing that is certainly understandable. I just think she can learn to 'hold it' pretty fast with the help of crate training.


I do take her out during the day when I am home, and reward her with a treat. She will usually go pee, but has not pooped outside despite my taking her litter poop outside and placing it where I want her to go.
I dont reward when she uses the litter box, and do clean it right away.

you are a very good mom, i think you are making really good efforts. she is just a baby, think about it, this is like rocket science in the beginning because she doesn't know anything. human babies don't learn to use a toilet usually until around 3. For 2 or 3 years they just go right in their diaper. dogs are superior because they have that instinct not to eliminate in their space, they are much easier, but at first, they are clueless. they learn fast though. you have to try to be ahead of them, they are training us while we are training them. you obviously are an eager learner, she will do good. :)

Harley & Carley
9th December 2006, 11:27 PM
At night, should I take her outside even when it is really cold? How about if she doesnt go? Do I stay out or go again after a few minutes?

Also, with the crate, I have a really small one for one of our cats. Should I use that one until she will hold it all night, or should I put up a "wall" to make the one I have smaller? The puppy crate I have is a little large for her 28X20, but my plan was to use it long term adn we are planning on getting another puppy in a few months and I was hoping they would share the crate at night.

Assuming I will take her out before I leave the house, it sounds like I should just allow her to make a "mistake" if she needs to while I am away until she grows enough to hold it for the few hours I may be gone instead of leaving the litter box at the other end of the playpen as far as possible from her bed. Is that right?

Thanks again, your help is invaluable!

Nean
10th December 2006, 02:48 AM
Hi, I am in no way an expert, but I can offer what we did.

Laci is now just over 2 years old. We got her at 3 months and she was just at about 3 1/2 pounds. We live in Missouri, and got her in Dec. I took her out from the beginning. I would carry her out, put her where I wanted her, I would say, go potty go potty. Give her a few minutes and if she did nothing, I'd take her in and wait about 30 minutes or so and try again. If she did go, I'd scoop her up and just go nuts praising her and then come in and immediately give her a treat. I was bell training her so just before this routine, I'd take her paw and swipe the bell that was hung right by the door, then take her out. I always used the same door and made sure I was extremely consistant about the routine. Our last trip out would be about 11:30PM and first trip out would be about 6AM. I made her crate very very small, sleeping room only. YES, she had a few accidents in the crate... but.... very very few.. and they were not pee accidents, there were a couple of poop acciendents... it was a little runny at those times, so I don't know if she had a little upset tummy or waited to long and couldn't hold it anymore. At any rate, it took exactly 6 weeks to get her bell trained... and she had a few accidents here and there for the first year. But they were not many at all, always seemed to be poop accidents rather than pee accidents, and now at 2, she is completely trustworthy. I never crate her anymore..... well.... maybe if a repairman is coming... but never for long. She sleeps in her bed right next to our bed and is left with the run of the house when we are gone... no problems.

Nean

Harley & Carley
10th December 2006, 02:54 AM
thanks - that was really helpful. I was thinking about the bell training, but the door we "go potty" out of is not in her safe zone. I guess I could get a bell at hang it on the baby gate that we use to get to the outside door.
Did you do a mid-night trip outside? When did you last offer food/water in the evening?

Harley & Carley
10th December 2006, 02:33 PM
well - I took away the litter box from teh crate and put her in the cats crate. She slept from 11:00-6:30 and was dry all night!!! She did her business super quick before bed and when got up as it was really cold. I was so proud!!
Thanks to you all for your help. Lets hope she will keep it up!

judy
10th December 2006, 07:17 PM
....Assuming I will take her out before I leave the house, it sounds like I should just allow her to make a "mistake" if she needs to while I am away until she grows enough to hold it for the few hours I may be gone instead of leaving the litter box at the other end of the playpen as far as possible from her bed. Is that right?...

I don't know about litter box training because i haven't tried it (i detest my cat's litterbox, and it's a self cleaning one)(and i'm lucky to have a small backyard for the dog) and in many discussions i've listened to about housetraining, i haven't heard of anyone using it . it seems not very common.

as you've seen, she is able to hold it for many hours, from 11 til 6, and she may have held it longer if you'd waited longer. Letting her out as often as possible is best because it's proactive, rather than waiting until she has a mistake, but the point is, dogs, even puppies, can hold it for longer than people often think, so leaving her for a few hours during the day is not necessarily risking her going pee or poo in her crate. I'd say the rule of thumb is, let her out as often as possible. Get home as soon s you can, don't make the unnecessary stop or do the errand that could wait, in order to be proactive and not give her the opportunity to make the mistake. But dogs can wait quite a while, even as older puppies, if they have nohwere to go pee due to being in a small crate.

If a dog has diarrhea, that is different. they simply can't control it. They would not poo in their crate if they could help it.

So again, the rule of thumb is, at first, for months, get home as fast as you can, but know that it will probably be ok when you can't. the fewer mistakes the better and letting her out a lot lowers the chance of it.

Using a litter box in the pen doesn't necessarily prevent the problem of mistakes, as you found. In your case, it seems to have caused there to be more mistakes than there would be if she was in a close fitting crate just the size of a bed.

For me, it's been kind of hard to come home to let Zack out rather than what i would've done instead, errands, social things, but i wanted to do it for the greater good. :D i had the sense that i was building something, a dog who was conditioned to only go pee/poo outside. I've had him for 10 months now (he was 16 weeks when i got him) and gradually over time i've become more relaxed about getting right home, but i still do it as a general rule, more for the social reason than the housetraining one at this point, they are not dogs who are meant to be alone for very long.

I would say now, and for a long time, Zack can stay inside without a "mistake" for as long as necessary, i worked at the office yesterday and what i thought would be 4 hours turned into 7. he seems conditioned to handle that. but once in a while i find a pee on the bathroom rug--that seems to have happened while i was home!! :yikes and i'm not sure what that's about, but because it only happens every 2 or 3 months, i can't really work with him on it. I just leave the bathroom doors closed. then after a while i trust him again and leave them open and hope it won't happen again.

Congratulations on such a successful night. :)