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View Full Version : 20+ lb 7 month old??



Lindsay
14th December 2006, 03:14 PM
h*lp Please help. I know some of you guys and gals are practically experts on food and ingredients.

My aunt has a 7 month old female cav who is an absolute HORSE. She is serious approaching the size of a cocker or even a springer! :yikes When my 2 are with her, she completely dwarfs them, not in stature, but in width. My 2 are both a year old and have been holding steady at a respectable 12 & 15 lbs. Gabbye (my aunt's dog) has to be well over 20 lbs and is just barely 7 months old. I have been in touch with my aunt's breeder and her mom is 13lbs and dad is 14lbs. I am concerned about what is in her food. I need tips/help/suggestions because I am worried about this little girl becoming severely obese! :(

This is the food and ingredients that she is on:

Hundchen Flocken Puppy (lamb)

Product Description
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Dry food formula made with Lamb, Millet, Amaranth, Barley and Brown Rice. Ideal for growing puppies, to maintain total health.

Protein, Min 28%
Fat, Min 14%
Fiber, Max 4%
Moisture, Max 10%
Calories per cup, 410


Ingredients
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Lamb | Lamb Meal | Millet | Brown Rice | Menhaden Fish Meal | Cracked Pearled Barley | Canola Oil | Rice Bran | Flaxseed Oil | Amaranth | Blueberries | Dried Chicory Root | Carotene | Choline Chloride | Vitamin E Supplement | Iron Proteinate | Zinc Proteinate | Yucca Schidigera Extract | Copper Proteinate | Manganese Proteinate | Potassium Iodide | Thiamine Mononitrate | Ascorbic Acid | Vitamin A Supplement | Biotin | Calcium Panthothenate | Sodium Selenite | Pyridoxine Hydrochloride | Vitamin B12 Supplement | Riboflavin | Vitamin D Supplement | Folic Acid |

Karlin
14th December 2006, 03:20 PM
The issue here is not really the weight of the puppy per se, but whether this weight is appropriate to the puppy's build. A vet can determine whether this is an overweight puppy. Some cavaliers are oversized, and some are extremely oversized.

If the puppy is from a good show breeder who breeds responsibly, then the size would be unusual but not impossible but is a lot less likely than a puppy from amateur breeders or a puppy mill where you'd have no idea what could be crossed in there in the recent past. More than one rescuer has told me of being at puppy farms in Ireland where all the dogs of various breeds, including females in heat, were exercised together in a common pen. :shock:. I have seen some supposed cavaliers that definitely had other things mixed in.

However, I spoke with some of the long time breeders in the Uk when I was in London for the SM meeting and they told me such puppies from otherwise good lines and good breeders are throwbacks to breeds used bu particular lines when the cavalier was recreated in the early part of the last century. Some lines have springer in them, some cocker... and if you see oversize dogs (and I see mostly oversize cavaliers in rescue) they usually either have springer or cocker in recent background or from the development of that line. Cavaliers, they say, do not breed particularly true.

inca
14th December 2006, 03:21 PM
how much per day is she being fed ?

Barbara Nixon
14th December 2006, 03:23 PM
Monty who is 11, weighs 35lbs, but he is a very big framed dog and is in fact thin. He came from large stock though.

If you can't easily feel this puppy's ribs and can grab a handful of flessh under the breast bone, then she is seriously overweight. Perhaps a word with her vet about diet and a change to adult food.

Lindsay
14th December 2006, 03:54 PM
She is feeding her 1 cup in the morning and 1 cup at night.

Thanks for the feedback thus far!

Shay
14th December 2006, 04:13 PM
That sounds like a lot to me. I feed Lily at almost 4 months, 1/2 cup morning and evening. The bag recommends this amount for her age and weight. She is starting to fill out a little now. She gets a couple of treats at lunch time too, and training rewards during the day.

moniechris
14th December 2006, 04:37 PM
The ingredients in the food look ok, But 2 cups a day is A LOT of food!!! Be careful with the bag feeding instructions, they usually tell you to give A LOT more food then the dog needs.
On top of getting 2 cups of food a day, the puppy is probably getting treats too!! I would cut back because overweight cavies are far more prone to health issues. I agree with the feeling of the ribs advice, and it doesn't take an expert to tell if the pup is big boned or just plain fat.

My Wesley is 22 pounds and only gets 1 cup a day (half in the am, half pm). He isn't overweight he is just a really athletic looking dog (longer legs, great muscle tone... all that squirrel chasing :lol: )

pippa
14th December 2006, 04:45 PM
My 5 yr old (Gus) and 2 and 3/4 year old (Pippin) get 3/4 of a cup in the morning and 1/2 a cup in the evening.They are both quite small build.

I did have them on a lamb based food but found that they put on too much weight especially Gus.

I would ask the advice of a vet as we can't see your dog so it would be best to ask some one who can see the dog. could be too heavy at 20lbs or could be fine depending on build bone structure etc.

Hope this helps sorry to be so vague.

Karlin
14th December 2006, 04:57 PM
I feed about a cup total per day for cavaliers at 14.5lbs and 17 lbs and Lily at 13 gets only about 1/3rd cup daily (and she is very acytive but is small with a slow metabolism and gains weight easily). Most cavaliers within breed weight would never need more than about a cup of food unless they have every high metabolism or are extremely active. People should alwauys take amounts with a big grain of salt because inddividual cavaliers vary enormously in their needs.

Please read: http://www.roycroftcavaliers.com/manualfeeding.htm for full feeding advice

But advice is irrelevant here on amounts she should be feeding because this puppy could be in fit weight but oversized in build and there is nothing you can do about an oversized dog. If this dog should be within the breed standard and has that basic frame than 20lbs would be dangerously obese (she would be almost twice her weight as a puppy -- most would be about 10 lbs at this age) and 2 cups of food would be at least twice what she shuld be fed and she will be at serious risk of an early death. Her joints and organs will not be able to support her body and its needs.

Your aunt needs to get this puppy to a vet immediately for advice because this is not the kind of situation that can be determined on a board; someone needs to look at that puppy and talk directly to your aunt.

BarbMazz
14th December 2006, 05:51 PM
She is feeding her 1 cup in the morning and 1 cup at night.

Thanks for the feedback thus far!

That's the amount my Golden Retriever eats per day! Bentley ( 3 ) has 1/3c in the morning and 1/3c in the pm. Clancy (18wks) has 1/2c in morning and 1/2c in the pm.

I'm thinking that this pup is being fed too much.

Charleen
14th December 2006, 05:59 PM
My 6 month old puppy is getting 3/4 Cup in the morning and 3/4 Cup in the afternoon. That is the recommended quantity on the side of the puppy food bag for his age and weight. He was weighed yesterday by my vet and he is 13.2 pounds. Jolly is still very skinny, but doesn't seem to want to eat more food.

I also own his dad and he is 20 pounds and 4 years old. When he came to live with me back in May he weighed 17 pounds and he was real skinny because he wasn't eating around two dogs in heat at the breeder's house. Since then I think he has gained too much weight, so I have cut him back to 3/4 cup per day. The last time he was at the vet's I asked his opinion and he agreed that Luke needed to lose a pound or two so that he had a pronounced waist.

Maybe your aunt should cut back the quantity of food and not leave food out for her to graze. Maybe that would help.

Karlin
14th December 2006, 09:28 PM
Advised amounts on food bags are usually too much and broad approximations for breeds that can have a huge weight range -- there is just no way mine could eat the amount recommended on the James Wellbeloved bag for example. I'd think 3/4ths a cup twice daily would be a lot for a puppy? But it really depends on the individual dog of course.

This is what breeder Laura Lang advises -- a very well respected, health focused US breeder:


Puppies between 8 and 16 weeks of age do quite well on 3 meals a day. They start out with about a large handful of kibble for each meal or about 1/4 cup. At about 4 to 6 months of age you may begin feeding your puppy twice a day, about 1/2 cup or so each time. Somewhere between 10 and 18 months of age you may begin feeding just once a day--with some really good eaters you may need to feed just once a day by 6 or 7 months of age.

Each time you feed your puppy, put the food down for approximately 15 minutes. If the puppy hasn't finished it after 15 minutes, pick it up and put it away until the next feeding time. Do NOT try to feed in between. Refrigerate if you are feeding a commercially prepared whole foods diet. Do not worry if your puppy appears thin. Puppies are just like humans. Some are very thin while growing up and some are not. It is highly unlikely your puppy will starve itself unless it is already ill. A puppy that grows slowly is best--there is no first prize for gaining full size as early as possible! Puppies who grow slowly are more likely to be able to develop muscle and tissue at the correct rate to keep up the the bone development. Of course some puppies are gluttons! Be careful not to overfeed a glutton.

As adults some Cavaliers may only eat 1/2 cup of food per day, others may eat as much as 1 full cup of food per day. I do not suggest feeding an adult Cavalier twice a day even though it is best for the dog. Cavaliers do not eat much! Half of very little is almost nothing! Nearly every owner I've known who tried to feed an adult twice a day ended up with an overweight Cavalier. When they try to divide 1/2 or 2/3 cup of kibble into two servings the amount barely covers the bottom of the pan--so they add just a little bit more so they don't feel as though they are starving their Cavalier. A little bit more every meal eventually ends up being a lot more! And their Cavalier becomes overweight. With one meal a day the amount looks to our eyes as though it is a half way decent amount and we are much less likely to add just a little bit more each day.

Lindsay
14th December 2006, 09:55 PM
Thank you all so much!

I have given my aunt a severe lecture on how much she is feeding her! :shock:

I will take some updated pics of Gab on Christmas so that you all can see this monsterous little girl. :flwr:

Lisa_T
15th December 2006, 02:50 AM
REr Laura's advice as quoted by Karlin: both of mine get fed twice a day (100g for Amber, approx 60g for Holly). I measure it carefully, but I have used a cat food dish to feed Holly in the past. I feel that this avoids the 'oh that's nothing, just a little more' syndrome because those dishes are usually smaller than the majority of dog dishes.

Joanne M
15th December 2006, 02:53 AM
On one of Tucker's last visits to the vet, I saw the only cavalier I've encountered in my area. He was huge compared to Tucker. He weighed 30 pounds. He didn't look fat, he just looked large and sturdy, the owner told me he was 2 yrs old.

Imallicoat, I'd love to see a picture of this large cavalier. I think they're all beautiful.

Mic
15th December 2006, 05:34 AM
Probably the most helpful advice I've ever found on weight and size is in the link Karlin posted. About halfway down the page are photos (aerial view) of cavaliers with notes explaining how to tell if your pup is over/under or at the perfect weight for his body structure.