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View Full Version : Dr Dodd's Vaccination Protocol



Kodee
30th December 2006, 04:22 AM
Do any of you follow Dr Jean Dodd's protocol? I have been reading up on it, but it appears most vets in my area GTA Toronto follow the regular 8-10-12 schedule with the whole enchilada of vaccines. I am leaning towards it but will have to add annual rabies shots as that's the way they are done here (or i'm pretty sure they are).

As well I am thinking of adding the the kennel cough one back in. When our lab was spayed she got a mild case of it. She was only at the vets for the day but still developed a good cough and which needed meds the wk after. Our dogs are in our backyard but I do take them for walks and do want to attend puppy classes.

Karlin
30th December 2006, 05:39 AM
Most vet schools and many vets now recommend a three year vaccination protocol. You have every right to tell your vets that that is the regime you plan to follow -- they work for you and you are their client, after all. It may be more difficult to find a kennel that accepts this, if you have to leave him, but many accept this protocol as well.

You can get a three year rabies as well. Unless you are legally reaquired to give it annually, every three years is fine and you can ask your vets specifically to give the three year vaccine as they can obtain it (as far as I know it is exactly the same dose but an 'offical' three year dose seems to make vets happier).

I would NOT give kennel cough unless you need to. Simply going to the vet is not a good reason to give kennel cough and they are very unlikely to get actuaL kennel cought there -- plus the vax only lasts 6 months anyway so there's no point in giving it annually. I don't give it unless my dogs will be kennelled with large groups of dogs. There's a much higher chance your lab got KC somewhere else if the dog ever encountered other dogs as it is very contagious, rather than in the vet's office (though there's always the chance -- but to me, not enough to give a vaccination twice a year). I have never had KC just for a stay at the vet.

If you look in the Library section here there's a whole post full of info and links on vaccinations.

Be aware the Dodds protocol is a recommended MINIMUM protocol which will not suit all situations or all dogs, as she herself states. Many people assume it is a general guide but she clearly notes it is a recommended *minimum* with several variables.

Kodee
30th December 2006, 07:02 AM
You can get a three year rabies as well. Unless you are legally reaquired to give it annually
All the vets I've spoken to say they give a one yr, but the town's written statement is sort of deceiving - it says it must be valid for the yr being registered - which to me means, if its a 3yr vaccine, it should be valid for 3 yrs? "produce evidence satisfactory to the Town that the cat or dog has been inoculated with a rabies vaccine, and that the vaccination date is valid for the entire calendar year of the licence." I will check on it though.


I would NOT give kennel cough unless you need to
I have never needed to board a pet or take it to daycare etc.. But I want to go to obedience school so am I safe to not do it still?


Be aware the Dodds protocol is a recommended MINIMUM protocol
How do I miss this little tidbits? I didnt notice that! Arg, 15 yrs ago with our first dog (like everything else) things just seemed easier! My breeder mentioned Dodd's and said to look it up, that they didnt get the Leptospirosis vaccine and they follow a 8-10wk, 12-14wk and 16-18wk shots. I assumed when I saw the Dodd's she meant the whole program but now realize she meant it was her basis for not getting the Leptospirosis and why I will take the puppy for its 1st round in the first wk home or 2nd.

My current vet uses the following (and I dont think it includes the Leptospirosis as there is no "L" in DHPPC, right?)
Distemper/Hepatitis/Parvo/Parainfluenza/Corona (DHPPC) vaccination at 8, 12, and 16 weeks of age
Rabies vaccination at 16 weeks of age
Heartworm prevention from June to November
Fecal analysis for intestinal parasites
Spay/Neuter at 6 months

Kodee
30th December 2006, 07:39 AM
I just read on this board the posts on the lepo vaccine and the post on raccoons. We have 4 big monsters since the summer that walk on our backyard fence. My neighbours and I have been trying to figure out whose backyard they are hiding in - like how could someone miss that! We are a suburb and raccoon have not been an issue before.

Anyways, since our lab has been gone since oct, the raccoon have gotten brave and were on our backyard lawn a few wks ago. Now I am concerned about their urine and this illness. In light of this, should I opt to get this vaccine knowing small breeds sometimes have a reaction?

Roxanne
30th December 2006, 04:06 PM
Its a tough decision . I never got Lepto before , but have recently had 2 friends chihuahua's get Lepto ! It also comes from Rats or rodents so if you ever have any rodents in your yard ( and who doesnt ?? or how do you know for sure ??), I think it would be a good idea . I am going to give Lepto from now on . I will premed with benadryl and cross my fingers that they dont get a reaction . My friends chi almost died from this ( the actual Lepto virus she contracted ...from where they do not know ??) just a few weeks ago. She went into kidney failure, luckily she survived it ! Another thing to think about is the facilities where dog food is made . If you arent feeding a human grade food that the factories are USDA inspected ....... rodents could possibly get on the machines , in the food ect . Yuck .

I like Dr Dodd's protocol . We have to vaccinate annually for Rabies here by law , which sucks :x However .... in light of a few scary situations that I have heard about , I may opt to do annual vaccinations just to be safe. I feel very torn. I know that that is probably too much .........BUT ............ there are some really bad viruses ( Parvo is on a rampage , as is this other virus that is unidentified as of now ) which makes me rethink the whole vaccinations issues .

Cathy Moon
30th December 2006, 04:38 PM
I just read on this board the posts on the lepo vaccine and the post on raccoons. We have 4 big monsters since the summer that walk on our backyard fence. My neighbours and I have been trying to figure out whose backyard they are hiding in - like how could someone miss that! We are a suburb and raccoon have not been an issue before.

Anyways, since our lab has been gone since oct, the raccoon have gotten brave and were on our backyard lawn a few wks ago. Now I am concerned about their urine and this illness. In light of this, should I opt to get this vaccine knowing small breeds sometimes have a reaction?
Kody,
Our vet advised us to get the Lepto for our cavs, since there is so much wildlife around our property. We haven't had problems with any kind of reactions to the shots. The vet said it is normal for them to feel like napping a lot for the first day or two after their vaccinations.

We used to be on a yearly DHLP, but that has changed.

Our vet has changed us to a 2-year DHPP and a yearly Lepto 4-way vaccine. With the new Lepto vaccine, they get a Lepto 4-way Puppy shot (they are adults) then we bring them back in 3-4 wks for the Lepto 4-way booster.

Kodee
30th December 2006, 04:51 PM
thank you for both your suggestions. I guess alot of my questions on this board really boil down to I dont have a vet yet. We dont want to use our lab's vet and I am looking for a new one. I dont want to be in a rush state panic making choices after he arrives. It figures we have lived here 18 yrs and never have I seen a raccoon till this summer :?

Cathy Moon
30th December 2006, 05:06 PM
A few years ago, when we inquired about titer testing, our vet told us about a Lepto vaccine that came as a single vaccine (not in DHLP) that was known for causing reactions. He did not like using that vaccine.

This Lepto 4-way must be from a different manufacturer that does better testing, or he would not be giving it to his patients.

Kodee
30th December 2006, 05:12 PM
This Lepto 4-way must be from a different manufacturer that does better testing, or he would not be giving it to his patients.
The shots have me bothered since I must do it the first wk she will be here. I have printed your reply so I dont forget to ask which type the 2 vets I am looking at give. Thank you so much for giving me details on this - I am feeling a bit more confidence. As they say knowledge is power!

Karlin
30th December 2006, 07:38 PM
There is really no reason for doing annual vaccinations after the puppy series and one year booster are done. I do stress this is the teaching policy of nearly ALL major vet schools in the US, based on sound research and evidence; it is only VETS who lag behind in adopting it. Three years is well within the protection framework for parvo and there's good evidence that the distemper booster lasts the lifetime of most dogs.

Roxanne that is interesting and scary about the chihs and lepto. If there are a significant number of cases in a region (a vet can tell people this) it is definitely worth getting, I think. My dogs swim in the canals and ponds around Dublin where there are rats and lepto has cropped up in animals and people and can be deadly. My dogs have no reaction to the vaccine. Be aware that it is normal for dogs to have some reaction to some vaccines -- they do put pressure on the immune system in order to produce antibodies.

Om's Mom
30th December 2006, 07:47 PM
When I was more active on the Syringomyelia groups (my little Dickens had SM and heart failure *ng*l )I noticed that a lot of people ask to have all shots given in the rump end, not the neck area. There is, or was, some thought that the injection/needle could be a trauma and have a relationship to SM/COMS.
I don't get Om vaccinated for anything anymore :yikes. Isn't there some thing they do now to check the levels to see if the vaccine levels are sufficient?
I have asked that it be noted in her chart that she receives any injection in her hind quarters. And like I said in another post (I'm up on a soapbox here icon_whistling) I always stay with the dog for any proceedure. I have good reasons for my stubornness :x about this.

Take care,
Dorothy

judy
30th December 2006, 11:03 PM
I don't get Om vaccinated for anything anymore :yikes. Isn't there some thing they do now to check the levels to see if the vaccine levels are sufficient?


Dorothy, vets can run tests called titers to see what kind of antibody (immune) response a dog has to germs for various diseases. It's not vaccine levels but antibody levels that are checked by titer tests. Antibodies are immune system cells that protect the body from a disease.

Titers are used, in research and in clinical practice, to get an idea of robustness of immune response for a certain disease.

Some vets, including Jean Dodds, and thanks in part to her influence, will measure titers in order to see whether a booster shot is necessary or not, and if the titer is adequate, they will not recommend a booster since the animal is apparently immune. They will recommend testing titers at yearly intervals. As has been said above, parvo and distemper vaccinations have very long immunity effects, so there is value to checking titers to see whether a booster vaccination is necessary.

To be considered reliable, titers have to be measured by the correct method. When measured correctly, they are considered to be reliable.

I'll paste a quote below from the report of the American Animal Hospital Association on vaccinations and recommended guidelines for vaccination use, where they talk about using the correct method and what it's called.
(When they talk about CDV and CPV, they are talking about canine distemper virus and canine parvo virus.)



Serological Tests to Monitor Immunity ... [here they have a long technical discussion of how titer testing and the immune system are commonly misunderstood which i'm omitting]...
...How then should antibody titers be used in clinical practice to monitor vaccine immunity? They can be helpful in the following ways:

• to determine if there has been an immune response following vaccination
• to determine the duration of immunity
• to ensure the vaccine is immunogenic
• to know precisely when to vaccinate the puppy
• to determine whether the animal is a “low or nonresponder” to certain vaccines

The important issue regarding antibody titers is not their value but the accuracy of the results reported from various laboratories. To have any clinical value, any test used to determine an individual’s immunity must be standardized against an accepted reference and demonstrate a very high degree of specificity and sensitivity. It is reported in the literature that titers of 20 for CDV and 80 for CPV are protective. 30,32 However, what is often not reported, or little understood, is that the test for CDV must be the virus neutralization (VN) test, and the test for CPV-2 should be the hemagglutination inhibition (HI) test performed with pig or monkey erythrocytes or the VN test, if those titer values are to be used. Those are the tests (VN and HI) that correlate with immunity by challenge studies. None, or few, of the commercial laboratories perform these tests, and the results of enzyme-linked immunosorbent assay (ELISA) or fluores-cent antibody (FA) tests may not correlate with the titers from the VN and HI tests. Thus, antibody titers are useful if you have a laboratory that performs the correct test, or if a test like the VN and HI or another test that has been stan-dardized to correlate with protective immunity were avail-able. Veterinarians should be sure that the laboratories they use for serological testing adhere to these principles

Om's Mom
31st December 2006, 02:02 AM
Judy, thank you. Titers is the word I was looking for. This is a good, if technical, explanation. I copied your source and the information into my documents for reference. :*bay:

:thnku: Dorothy

Kodee
31st December 2006, 07:32 AM
Thanks to everyone for making this more clear to me. After reading all your posts I also checked our town regulations and the Ontario Vet Assoc for input in where I live.

The Vet Assoc recommends a 3 yr rabies (I guess my old vet never told me it existed?), they only recommend kennel cough for boarding or show etc... pets - neither which I do, so I will forgo it and handle socialization with dogs I know have their shots and for a while I'll be ok with training as I put my lab thro 2 levels so I can get going on my own for a while.

As for leptro - it states it is not currently a problem in southern ont and not required - so again I will opt out and go practice golf or baseball if i see the raccoons again icon_whistling OK I wont, but I'm looking into where they are (its just one family - this is a populated area and unusual for them to be here).

As for shots after the first yr booster - I'm thinking only 3 yr rabies and heartworm. But as my little Kody is not even here till the 27 of Jan, I guess I have load of time to ponder that one! Thanks again - once I "hire" a vet I will feel better being able to ask them these things!

Karlin
11th January 2007, 11:42 AM
Judy: please. SOME vets feel titers are accurate -- mostly, those who have holistically based practices. MANY do not, including every single one I have ever talked to. The problems with titers are widely reported in the literature, so please do not make blanket and misleading statements like this. I will NOT allow statements like this to pass as fact on this website.

Maybe it is better to take the vaccine discussions to PMs with individuals or carry this on on one of the sites that supports this perspective but I consider it so seriously misleading and so potentially risky to the health of people's dogs that I won;t allow this kind of thing to continue here. Full stop. I get really tired of having to correct this false perspective on a regular basis. Please note I am not talking *opinion* here (people are entitled to opinions). I am talking FACT. You are free to express your *opinion* that you are happy to use titers as an accurate measure based on your own level of comfort with risk, but do NOT state that this is a normal and accepted and reliable procedure.

End of discussion and I don't want to see this put forward as a safe and valid alternative.

Also: would you please offer links to the copyright material you are reprinting on this site in this way -- it is not allowable under international copyright law to just take chunks of other people's copyright material and paste it in without at least offering a link along with a citation. technically, you should *only* be providing a link anyway and not cutting and pasting large pieces of text.