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Claire L
15th January 2007, 11:13 PM
Penny has been brilliant today!! No hiding behind connifers and no soiling indoors :rah: .... in fact! she's been following me around most of the day and even when the next door neighbours came in to see her , she got out of her bed and went right up to have a sniff of them :D

We had just one heart-stopping moment this morning. I took her out to the front garden to have a sniff around and she was doing fine then suddenly!! she has her body half way through the railings :yikes I just grabbed her and cuddled her up close and brought her back indoors.
She needs to fill out a bit. Hopefully she will soon eat herself into captivity :lol:

Anyway, my query is do we need to crate train her inside the house?
I never did this with Rudee and I don't want to have to do it with Penny
but she will be getting spayed next week and I know when Rudee was done she went into her Kennel out in the back garden and wouldn't come out for hours. I was beside myself at the time and I'm just wondering how Penny is going to react. Will she want to get away from us? I just hope this wont be a backward step because she's now talking to me and I'm terrified that next week she will hate me :?

I have already put a travel crate in the kitchen beside her bed. I took the door off and put a cover over it. She's had a look inside but hasn't felt the need to use it so should I just leave that there in the hopes that she will use it next week if she needs to, or, should I get a bigger crate??

:? :? :? :? any advice??

:flwr:

Maxxs_Mummy
15th January 2007, 11:22 PM
Claire,

I'd just do exactly as you have done so far. Have a look at Lucy - I don't even possess a crate. She's spent enough of her life being locked up and when I go out she'll just be in the kitchen until she's housetrained!

Zippy
15th January 2007, 11:27 PM
I'm so glad that you posted about how Penny is doing....fabulous!!

As you don't have other doggies to pester her, she may be fine with just her bed and the crate you've provided already.

She might be a bit sleepy from the anaesthetic, she'll need to rest but I'd think she'll be fine.....I would keep her on a leash outdoors til she's completely recovered, mainly because she'll still be new to you.

Sounds like everything is going very well...please keep posting, I look forward to hearing about Penny.

Getting a rescue doggie is a bit different from a puppy. They have a lot to teach us.....our Mary Alice won't go near a crate unless you push her in...for whatever reason, she's very frightened.

We've been watching all day for your notes...thanks. :D
:flwr: :flwr: :flwr: :flwr:

Maxxs_Mummy
15th January 2007, 11:31 PM
Zippy,

She's probably seen enough bars to last her a lifetime :(

Moviedust
15th January 2007, 11:35 PM
Willow had issues with crates when she first came to my house (though she was crated at her foster's without a problem--go figure). So she wasnt crated (just xpened) for a long time. However, she will now go into the wire kennel with Cedar without hesitation. In fact, I think she prefers the kennel to the xpen. When we get ready to go, she gets in the kennel before I say anything, even if I was just going to put her in the xpen!

I think it is good that all dogs are comfortable with a kennel/crate, even if most of the time they dont have to be in one. It comes in handy for traveling and for the odd illness/surgery from which they need to recover with rest and down time.

Zippy
15th January 2007, 11:41 PM
We figure, along with the rescue lady, that something happened when she was "shipped" to Canada.

It must have been pretty traumatic, she panics something awful!!!

I won't force her...the crate is always open and I try to feed her in it but she barks and howls to see if we'll bring the food out again.

She grabs a bite and runs out again....over and over til the meal is done.

I just don't have it in me to "force" anything on her.....if we ever have to leave her, I'll ask the rescue lady to take her. But they got no sleep while they had her...due to her howling!!

We were there yesterday for a visit and talking about this....they knew she slept on the bed cause Hubby and I don't look too tired!!! LOL

I tried the crate for three nights but got too tired...she howls and "scrabbles" til you're about to go mad!! Poor wee baby!! :flwr: :flwr: :flwr:

Karlin
16th January 2007, 12:02 AM
It is a really good idea to have her comfortable around a crate. This is the safest way to transport a dog and is much safer at the vets when other larger dogs are around then having a dog on a lead. Most dogs find the security of a crate very comforting. It may save their life in even the lowest impact crash in a car -- a seatbelt harness in some situations will not, and they could hang or throttle a dog if fitted poorly. A crate means you can also take her travelling easily, on trains, on holiday etc. From that point of view I'd try to encourage her to use the crate by throwing treats in it from time to time, even feeding her inside (dogs often like the confined protected space for eating). I do have crate training tips somewhere in the Library section or can PM you some links.

Many dogs won't bother to get used to a crate unless you work to make it a fun and positive experience for them as they don't have any idea you want them to use it -- it is just an empty box to them. Of my three, only Lily likes to sleep regularly in crates (well, and ALL the cats!) but all three will happily travel in them. This has meant they are always safe, that I can leave two crated and watching while training a third, that I can take them on trains and on planes and ferries and a bicycle (have done all!), that I can put one or all safely into a crate while doing something in the house that needs them confined.

Jaspar and Leo get so excited when I bring out a crate that I can hardly quiet them down. They know it means they are going somewhere and it has nothing but positive associations. :lol: Also it means I can *HOME BOARD* rather than kennel board my dogs. Every person I know who home boards requires the dogs to be crated at night.

I would not crate my dogs during the daytime for hours when I am out -- I prefer other alternatives -- but being able to use a crate with the dogs, and to use them with rescue dogs, has 1) SAVED LIVES when I otherwise could not have taken or transported a dog; 2) enabled me to travel with them in emergencies (eg by plane for Leo's MRI in Wales when I didn't own a car) or when public transport is a better choice than a car; 3) drive long distances with them; 4) train more effectively by confining some dogs while working with others; 5) kept them safe in the car on short to long journeys; 6) made others willing to transport them when necessary; 7) enabled them to board with Margaret for the past three years.

If I move back to the US in future, I know they can travel crated by plane without this being a hugely stressful event because they are confortable in crates.

Many frightened dogs -- including Bianca, with Brid currently -- find a crate so comforting and calming that they won't come out when scared (it was very hard for my vet to encourage her out). Hence they can be a very good tool to use with scared and uncertain or shy dogs.

Most dogs in BYB situations have never been in a cage and this is not a common background for rescue dogs, only a tiny proportion. This was NOT the background of Penney; she did not come from a caged farm, so this shouldn't be an issue anyway. I've found even puppy farm dogs love the dark safety of a plastic crate -- it is a sheltered place, a dog house, not a cage of fear. For such dogs I'd always use a plastic crate, not a wire cage/crate anyway. :thmbsup:

If you do not wish to use a crate, then do consider transport issues and that you will need to start to train her right away on a seatbelt harness.

Karlin
16th January 2007, 12:21 AM
I'm just moving a few posts to more appropriate discussion sections as I like to keep the breed rescue section focused on dogs looking for homes. :)

frecklesmom
16th January 2007, 01:08 AM
Hi Claire,
Can you take the top off the crate-drape the bottom part with something cozy. Can you rub the bottom and sides down with the most hi quality forbidden food to make it smell attractive. Can you load it up with goodies as toys and chew bones-again hi quality. Words like "nice" and "OK" helped Freckles to accept things over time. She is so new and I'm sure she doesn't want you away from her and behind bars can make them feel so alone if they lose sight of you. If you can move the crate to where you are at different times of day she may make some peace with it and feel it's not a threat. It seems to me these little ones have such fragile emotions that it's so hard to do anything that reminds them of their past life and, yet, we have to be the ones to know what is best for them. If you like the crate, and she knows it, she will come to accept it. Make the crate a great place.

Claire L
16th January 2007, 09:15 PM
I would definitely prefer to crate train Minnie Moo because of all the advantages mentioned. I don't mind if this takes time but is the crate I have big enough?? It's called a pet voyager 300. we bought it years ago for Rudee but never used it. Have a look and tell me what you think.

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k37/poochpal_2006/IMG_0176.jpg

It's only situated like that because I was taking a photo and she decide to check it out :lol:
She can walk into it but as she has only backed out of it, I don't know if it's wide enough for her to turn around. Karlin, I think it's the same size as one I saw in your car, but I'm not 100% sure.

Zippy
16th January 2007, 09:47 PM
I think you're half way there, Minnie Moo is at least checking it out!! :lol:

Ours is about the same size...can tell because of Minnie Moo being close to it!

Mary Alice always backs out but she can stand/move about in it.

I'm going to have another "go" at getting Mary Alice to sleep in her crate. :roll:

You're doing so well with Minnie Moo!! :flwr: :flwr:

Claire L
16th January 2007, 10:06 PM
Zippy Wrote

I'm going to have another "go" at getting Mary Alice to sleep in her crate.




I think you just have to be persistent with them because they know every trick in the book to get you to their way of thinking. Cavaliers are great at training people..... they know that it just takes one look and a little whine and they have you nailed icon_whistling

I'll probably never get Minnie Moo to go in this crate but I'll try :roll:

misty
16th January 2007, 10:43 PM
I must admit to being wary of crating Bradley to start with, as we strongly believe he had been caged all his life.

However, he often chooses to get into the crate in the kitchen, when we leave him with the others. We just leave the door open, so it's inviting for him.

Btw, I'd never owned a crate up until a few months ago. I only bought a couple to help me transport dogs, but now I use them frequently.

Cathy Moon
17th January 2007, 04:07 AM
I would definitely prefer to crate train Minnie Moo because of all the advantages mentioned. I don't mind if this takes time but is the crate I have big enough?? It's called a pet voyager 300. we bought it years ago for Rudee but never used it. Have a look and tell me what you think.

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k37/poochpal_2006/IMG_0176.jpg

It's only situated like that because I was taking a photo and she decide to check it out :lol:
She can walk into it but as she has only backed out of it, I don't know if it's wide enough for her to turn around. Karlin, I think it's the same size as one I saw in your car, but I'm not 100% sure.
Claire, the crate looks a bit small to me. Our crates are taller, so they can stand up, sit up, or turn around inside. She might be more comfortable in a bigger one. Wow, her coat looks lovely and shiny in the photo! :flwr:

Zippy
17th January 2007, 10:14 PM
Claire, how's Minnie Moo doing today??

You'll never guess who slept in her crate last night!!! :shock: :shock:

Dottie
17th January 2007, 11:35 PM
I've always heard / read that the crate should be big enough for the dog to stand up and turn around. This way they can re-position themselves and get comfortable for sleeping! With potty training, you don't want a lot of excess room or they will still think they have room to pee or poop without lying in it! When they are older and already housebroken though, they need more room to be comfortable! My doxie and poodle sleep in the largest sized one together ... they love it!
:flwr:

Zippy
18th January 2007, 12:45 AM
Yep, the crate should be big enough to sit, stand and turn around in, that's for sure.

I'm not sure that a doggie would use their crate as a toilet, they like to keep their "den" clean. A bit bigger is better than smaller. :flwr: :flwr:

What's a doxie?? Tx.

Dottie
18th January 2007, 02:23 AM
Yep, the crate should be big enough to sit, stand and turn around in, that's for sure.

I'm not sure that a doggie would use their crate as a toilet, they like to keep their "den" clean. A bit bigger is better than smaller. :flwr: :flwr:

What's a doxie?? Tx.

I meant a puppy who wasn't potty-trained yet would have accidents in a bigger one! ;)

A "Doxie" is a nickname for Dachshund ... just like Cav or Cavy is for Cavalier! :D

Zippy
18th January 2007, 02:34 AM
Thanks for the explanation of doxie.... ;D

I don't think even a little cavvie will use their crate as a toilet as long as they have enough opportunity to go outside. ;D