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Cicero's Mummy
24th January 2007, 01:34 AM
Hey everyone! Our breeder is contemplating shipping our doggie to us. Cicero will be 12 weeks when he comes to us and I am totally freeked out about the whole process of getting him home on a plane all by himself. I have been out there and visited the breeders home, so this ISNT a shaddy issue. But, my father-in-law (a vet) says that shipping the dog is absolutely fine... but this does not calm my nerves.

Have any of you shipped a dog before without going with it?? How does this work??

1. Where do you take it to get a flight?
2. Where do you pick up at??
3. Any related information would help.

Please no links seeing as I have visted all the major airline sites and they DO NOT give any specific steps.

Please just personal experience and such would be really greatly appriciated. Cicero is going to be coming home the last weekend in Feb.


(heck... maybe i need to scrounge and buy me a plane ticket, it would be way less stress!)

arasara
24th January 2007, 01:39 AM
Hi Raven,

Personally I would just and get him yourself. It will be way less stressful for him and he's very young and small right now. Heck - you already have the carrier!

I just think it would cause him more stress than it's worth to ship but that's my opinion -

maybe others will chime in! :flwr:

Zippy
24th January 2007, 01:45 AM
I know that Mary Alice was shipped from somewhere in the US to Ontario.

I also know that she's terrified of being crated...but, I don't know if they're related.

The rescue lady was talking about shipping dogs, she said that some were picked up by courier the day before and kept in a warehouse overnight sometimes. She had problems with a dog that she had shipped as a pup from overseas and blames it on lack of care during shipping.

Many dogs are shipped, so it must be quite common.

I thought you were picking Cicero up in person. :flwr: :flwr:

If he was mine, I'd fly out and get him....actually, I'd drive but that's just me! I'd be too worried about the puppy. :sl*p:

WoodHaven
24th January 2007, 02:00 AM
I don't ship pups under the plane-- did it once with a rescue and was stressed for 6 hours.
One of the problems is getting a shipping clearance-- it gets cold in February and a 12 week old can be so tiny. Some parts of the US aren't bad-- but still.

Gracie's Mommy
24th January 2007, 02:03 AM
Raven,

I work in the aviation industry (actually for a major airline)...many, many animals are shipped via airline everyday and very, very few ever have an incident. That said, I'd recommend going to pick him up anyway as it will be a very traumatic experience for both of you. It's highly likely that Cicero will just sleep through the flight either way (it's the movement and noise of the plane that causes this).

Of course, I realize that it's an expensive proposition when you consider you're ticket plus the carry-on pet charge for Cicero. Not that I'm encouraging this by any means, but depending on the airline, you could very easily avoid paying the charge and no one would be the wiser...corporate processes in this area are sorely lacking.

Whatever you decide, I'm sure that Cicero will arrive safely!

WoodHaven
24th January 2007, 02:30 AM
Raven,

I work in the aviation industry (actually for a major airline)...many, many animals are shipped via airline everyday and very, very few ever have an incident. That said, I'd recommend going to pick him up anyway as it will be a very traumatic experience for both of you. It's highly likely that Cicero will just sleep through the flight either way (it's the movement and noise of the plane that causes this).

Of course, I realize that it's an expensive proposition when you consider you're ticket plus the carry-on pet charge for Cicero. Not that I'm encouraging this by any means, but depending on the airline, you could very easily avoid paying the charge and no one would be the wiser...corporate processes in this area are sorely lacking.

Whatever you decide, I'm sure that Cicero will arrive safely!

I agree with Gracies Mom-- there are thousands of dog that HAVE to be shipped cargo-- and most arrive safely. Some escape--yikes, like that dog last year from Westminster (or was it the year before-- they never found it). Here is a website-- I think they've mentioned the akc has something on their website.
http://doglaw.hugpug.com/doglaw_042.html

Sandy

aleethomas
24th January 2007, 03:55 AM
We just had our little one shipped to us in Atlanta from Texas. Padden was 12 weeks and she did wonderful. The breeder had already been crating her at night which I think helped with Padden being comfortable in the crate. We were really nervous about shipping her but we couldn't get out there to pick her up. Our breeder flew her Continental which is suppose to be really good with shipping animals. Padden wasn't stressed when we picked her up. I immediately took her out of her crate held her up to my neck and she started with the licking. She was a little scared when we got her home since she was in a completely different environment but after a couple of days she was completely fine!

One thing our breeder told us was to bring along some honey water or baby food because they can get hyperglycemic in the plane. We didn't have this problem, Padden ate once we got her home. She also didn't have any accidents in her crate either.

Good luck if you decide to have her shipped! She should do fine and she'll be here before you know it!

Kodee
24th January 2007, 04:28 AM
Obviously puppies can be shipped and suffer no effect. And just as obviously some are shipped and traumatized. It is not something I personally would risk, I would find other means or I would purchase from a breeder that allowed me other means.

I really really dont mean this to sound judgemental, its just something I could not bring myself to do.

Mic
24th January 2007, 04:43 AM
I had Cappy shipped from Dallas. I flew in when he was 6 weeks and spent the entire day with the breeder. I bonded with the pup...and his breeder! Since it's only an hour flight with no stops or layovers, when it came time to book my flight (Cappy was 12 weeks), his breeder actually brought up the option of shipping him to me. Our original arrangement was for me to fly and get him, but I guess she felt more at ease with me after spending the day together, and the flight was so short (1 hour).

She called me when she got the ticket. She called me when she had to release him to the agent. When I was on my way to the airport, she called to tell me that the flight took off. I called her when the flight landed. I called her when I saw his crate being unloaded. I called her when he was in my arms.

I load rescue dogs for transport every Thursday morning, but not on a plane. A couple who had been very active in rescue actually gave up their jobs (nurse and medical salesman) and converted a 5th wheel to transport rescues (ONLY RESCUES) from Arkansas and Tennessee to the New England area. They have since upgraded their trailer three times and have a perfect set up. All of our transport dogs have an adoptive family that's been "checked" and is eagerly awaiting them. We take photos loading each pup and then email them to each family. They send up photos of their new dog getting off transport and meeting them. It's really neat to be a part of that. But I haven't put any cavies on transport. Most of our transport dogs are strays, give-aways, and Heinz-57, so there's not a big demand for them in the South. I can be a bit more selective with Cavaliers.

Regarding transporting via plane, some things I'd consider are:
1. Length of flight
2. Direct or connecting flight?
3. Length of layover
4. Will the crate be in a climate controlled area?
5. Temperature
6. Age of dog
7. Temperament of dog

duncans_ma
24th January 2007, 04:53 AM
raven,

I think you mentioned utah to ohio at some point. Is there anyway you can at least drive to a city where there is no connecting flight. It is the layover that causes many problems, I think. We had Arthur flown to us and used American Airlines. The breeder drove him to their frieght office where he was promised to be escorted to the plane no more than 1/2 hour prior to take off and also would be the first "cargo" removed from the plane at landing. They did have temperature restrictions but they were more of an issue if the pup would be changing plans and on the tarmac for longer than 30 minutes.

We picked Arthur up at the ticketing counter in Pensacola, FL and the ticket agents were cooing at him and making sure he had water to drink.

We had a good experience but in the cold weather and if he has to connect I would certainly try to pick him up. What if you flew a shorter leg and "met" him instead of connecting...that is an option that may be cheaper

Oh and to dispel any fears...his cargo area was pressurized and at a comfortable temp during flight...it is tarmac time that can be too cold or hot

Crittercall
24th January 2007, 05:05 AM
Just my opinion, but I would do everything I could think of to keep a dog from being shipped. The breeder I knew in KY was often shipping dogs to New York and had no issue with it, but you never know.

Someone told me that even tho they tell you that the cargo area of a plane is "climate controlled" that merely means that it is controlled by the climate outside the plane; it is not heated or air conditioned.

I really became adamant about this when we saw a Golden Retriever that had been shipped from Chicago to KY in February. We were the closest clinic to the airport and the poor dog had nearly frozen to death. Literally. And this wasn't a small puppy - it was a good sized dog.

Just my opinion like I said, but I think I would try to work out something to meet the breeder halfway maybe. Or depending on how big Cicero is, if he could fit into one of the crates that goes under the seat of an airplane I would take him on board with me.

(When we were in Hawaii and flying from Maui to Kuaui there was a young girl who had a shihtzu in a small cardboard box. She carried it onto the plane and nobody said a word to her - escept me and I was wanting to see the dog! They certainly had no problem with that over there and she sat with the box in her lap for the whole flight.)

Gracie's Mommy
24th January 2007, 05:11 AM
Just to clarify, the cargo compartment is climate controlled using the same system (in parallel) that controls the cabin climate. On our airline, When and if the cargo system is not operating, that aircraft has a pet embargo, meaning that no live animals are allowed as cargo.

Time on the plane isn't the problem as much as time on the ground...hence the suggestion to avoid connections if at all possible.

WoodHaven
24th January 2007, 05:21 AM
Part of the problem is the wait on the tarmac. People have actually watched their pups crate fall off of the conveyer -- could you imagine watching the crate fall--- I would have screamed. It is 23 degrees here without windchill. I wouldn't wish a wait outside for a small pup.

Crittercall
24th January 2007, 05:31 AM
Thanks for that clarification, Lindsay. I don't know that it changes my opinion about whether I'd have a puppy shipped or not, but it is good to know that at least one airline cares about such things!

It always seems so odd to me that when I fly in the winter to a colder climate that everything in my bags is so cold - shampoo, shower gel, etc. I guess that's part of my concern about the dogs, too. But I'm just not educated enough!

molly
24th January 2007, 05:42 AM
Our Katie was flown from Washington state to NJ. But she was already 1.5 yrs. old. I would have reservations about shipping a young pup especially in winter.

The weather was also really nice when we did it. Not hot summer/not cold winter. The airlines will not fly a dog if the temp is too cold. And you would not know until that day if the shipping could occur due to weather. Each major airlines does have all the info you need on their website for animal shipping.

My friend booked the flight and sent me all the flight detail. She shipped Continental QUIKPAK (cargo) and there was a special phone number to call so I could check that the flight was on time before I left for the airport. I needed a shipment air way/bill number and the Flight Confirmation Number you get when you purchase the flight to get any information and to pick her up. The transport document that was with her was in my name as the receiver and I also had to show picture ID before I was allowed to take her from the airport.

My DH waited outside by the QUIKPAK office located by departures, I ran in, the crate came right out to the package arrival desk on time, and home we went. Quick easy process and the employees were very helpful. If you call the airlines they will give you all the info you need.

Katie was exercised really well during the day so she was tired for the flight. It was a non-stop flight at 11 p.m. and arrived at 6 a.m. (time differences: the flight was less than 5 hrs. time). We picked that flight because that was her normal sleeping time. No bedding, toys, etc. were allowed in the crate and the crate was tied shut with one of those plastic straps like they use for handcuffs. Fortunately my DH had a knife to cut it open once we were in the car. The crate had to have water and food cups that attached to the crate for the flight and medical info had to come with her attesting to good health. She was also microchipped before the flight because I was paranoid.

I was a wreck the whole time. Didn't sleep that night at all. Don't think I would ship any of mine again unless I absolutely had to. I thought you mentioned that you were getting the pup for free through yr FIL. That's worth the price of a plane ticket to go pick her up. :badgrin:

Cicero's Mummy
24th January 2007, 01:05 PM
It was my inlaws who didn't want me to (and guys he is a vet... so I don't think he would recommend anything harmful). I think I am just going to tell them to get over it... I am spending the money (not a problem). (they had a cow when I got Cicero a coach collar)

And, Delta does nonstop flights. So either way I am going to use them.

Thanks for all your opinions. My opinion was to never fly a dog and that is why I got so curious when my FIL suggested it... anywho...

Karlin
24th January 2007, 01:07 PM
Climate controlled means climate controlled. They could not possibly allow the temp to drop to levels outside the plane as this is way below freezing -- also the cargo area for dogs is pressurised. Usually there's an area at the front that is climate controlled then there's the rest of the hold. The pressurised area is much smaller than the entire hold.

Pups are a lot more relaxed on a flight than an uncrate trained adult. Crate trained dogs are probably pretty low key once they are in the hold -- it isdark in there and the nosie is consistent without being really loud because they (like business class!) are before the engines).

I flew both my boys in a single crate rom Dublin to Manchester and it was really easy. On advice of others who do this regularly with rescues I asked cabin attendants if they could confirm to me when the boys were loaded on and then confirm they were safely in the pressurised area.

Be aware it costs a HUGE amount more to ship by cargo and unaccompanied, than to either fly with the animal in the hold or fly with it in the cabin. Like around $800 vs. under $50 I think for in the cabin plus your ticket. Better get quotes from the airline involved.

With such a young pup I'd get a Sherpa bag and just take it as carry on. You need to make reservations for the dog *in advance* as there's a limited number of dogs allowed on flights so make sure all arrangements are done well in advance.

I don't like sending dogs in the cargo hold any more than I am thrilled by regular flying for myself but it was easy enough when I did it and I wouldn't personally be paranoid about it. There are show breeders who regularly send their dogs this way to key shows nd also ship puppies regularly this way. In Europe people take their dogs all the time on flights. The chances of the dog being hurt are much, much higher for simply taking it in a car than for shipping in the hold.

Cicero's Mummy
24th January 2007, 01:08 PM
If he was mine, I'd fly out and get him....actually, I'd drive but that's just me! I'd be too worried about the puppy. :sl*p:

A 26 hour drive is not what I have in mind... and that is just one way! I am a spoiled plane child!! LOL! My parents always flew us first class everywhere we went... I had a hard time flying coach when I married my hubby... driving is definately out of the question!

Mary
24th January 2007, 01:38 PM
My Annie and Scout were shipped to me from Arizona. They did just fine. The breeder got them to the airport in AZ very early in the am and they were loaded then they were transferred in Minneapolis to a connecting flight and arrived here at my airport in WI at 2 that afternoon. They were about 3 months old and were allowed to fly in the same crate. They flew in April and that worked out well. You always have to worry about the temperature restrictions. The cost was only about $250 including the travel crate...that was 4 years ago.

Kodee
24th January 2007, 05:10 PM
If he was mine, I'd fly out and get him....actually, I'd drive but that's just me! I'd be too worried about the puppy. :sl*p:

A 26 hour drive is not what I have in mind... and that is just one way! I am a spoiled plane child!! LOL! My parents always flew us first class everywhere we went... I had a hard time flying coach when I married my hubby... driving is definately out of the question!

I agree with you there, 26 hrs would be harder than flying for both of you - not feasible at all! If you can get away you would probably feel better taking your puppy in a sherpa bag. Besides you posted you got that snazzy one and your puppy will be the talk of the airport when you walk through!

Oh and my mother is just like your FIL, she comments if my sugar is a brand that is .20 cents more :roll:

enchantingdragon
24th January 2007, 05:59 PM
I would agree with you Raven that its best to pick up the pup in person if you can. Im sure its fine to ship pups but its something I would feel comfortable with and why add that stress on to yourself if its not necessary

I know you wouldnt want to drive 26 hours (who would?) but it would have been nice maybe if your husband could have come with you and you guys could have made a lil roadtrip of it together. My husband and I drove cross country this summer from NJ to Cali. I am extremely claustraphobic and it has gotten worse as I aged. I use to fly all over the world with my parents but now cant get myself onto one of those things to save my life. My best friend lives in Cali as she goes to grad school there and she was getting married one month before me out there. I was in the wedding so I couldnt not go so my husband planned a 2 week cross country trip for us and drove us there and back (I drove 1 hour in Iowa one morning when he was too tired) We stopped and saw things along the way so it wasnt driving straight through and it was a lot of fun. We spent July 4th (our anniversary) at the Grand Canyon watching the colors change. Though it was a bit hectic as it really was a month to our wedding literally when we got home it was a lot of fun and I recomend it if you have the time. :D

Cicero's Mummy
24th January 2007, 06:47 PM
Lol... my hubby would love a road trip at this point...

Unfortunately... he is a 3rd year Medical Student and in the middle of his Surgical Rotation... I don't think his patients would appreciate thier surgeries being put on hold so thier doctor can pick up his puppy! Lol!

It is just fine that I am going alone. And, no way am I ever making that drive! Even when we move out west (at the end of med school) I am flying and we are hiring movers! LOL!

Well, still up in the air. I talked to Delta and they made me more at ease, I am definately using them. It is not flying with a dog that I am apprehensive about. It is the dog flying without me that I am looking into, and actually might do, which is why I was asking for people who have had this experience to help me understand what to do. I don't really appreciate all the comments (some are reassuring, which I was looking for) as they are making me feel like less of an owner, and I am NOT a crappy dog owner! Like I said before, I had never thought that flying a dog without an owner would be an option I would explore. This might be the first puppy I "ship." I am sure if it were not safe, that my father-in-law (a vet of 20+ years) and our breeder would have said something by now. Humph... okay... done venting... 'psh!

Lindsay
24th January 2007, 07:16 PM
I don't think people were trying to imply that you were a "crappy dog owner." You asked for opinions and experiences, and that is what you got. :flwr:

My aunt had her dog shipped and she bounded out of her crate to my aunt like "No big deal, I love you! Are you my mommy?" That is just the nature of her dog, though. I think it will come down to the personality of the dog. I think Izzy and Tilly would do fine doing something like that, but Spencer would have a melt-down. Perhaps talking to your breeder about the puppy's personality thus far will help you make your decision.

Good luck! :flwr:

Gracie's Mommy
24th January 2007, 07:18 PM
Raven,

Sorry to hear that you're a bit uneasy about some of these responses. Shipping a puppy in the cargo is safe and many people do it every day. It is really just a matter of personal opinion and everyone is untitled to their opinion. I'm sure that no one here was implying that you were a bad dog owner for thinking about shipping Cicero. What matters is that you are comfortable with the processes and policies in place at Delta and that they will keep you up-to-date with his progress en route.

Since he's a puppy, whether you fly with him or he flies in cargo, he will almost certainly sleep the whole way and not have any emotional effects from the shipping, especially if he has already been crate trained by the breeder.

Hope you can get this logistics issue worked out ASAP so that you can get back to being excited instead of worried! :D :flwr:

Crittercall
24th January 2007, 10:24 PM
I hope my negative thoughts about putting a dog in cargo have not done a lot of harm. My opinion isn't worth a hill of beans in the grand scope of things! ;)

You have to do what makes you comfortable. Talk to your breeder - I'm sure that he/she has had experience with shipping dogs. We had a Cavalier breeder that used one of the vets I worked for and she frequently stopped by with one (or more) Cavaliers that she was shipping to New York - had to get health certificates on them first. She was very comfortable about it. And I believe that she always used Delta.

Again I'm sorry if my words were discouraging - wouldn't do it on purpose for the world. Just adding my own feelings to those of everyone else. And I, too, would be hesitant about a 26 hour drive!

Now get back to thinking about how much fun that baby is gonna be and stop worrying about what we think!! :D

WoodHaven
24th January 2007, 10:47 PM
I hope my negative thoughts about putting a dog in cargo have not done a lot of harm. My opinion isn't worth a hill of beans in the grand scope of things! ;)

You have to do what makes you comfortable. Talk to your breeder - I'm sure that he/she has had experience with shipping dogs. We had a Cavalier breeder that used one of the vets I worked for and she frequently stopped by with one (or more) Cavaliers that she was shipping to New York - had to get health certificates on them first. She was very comfortable about it. And I believe that she always used Delta.

Again I'm sorry if my words were discouraging - wouldn't do it on purpose for the world. Just adding my own feelings to those of everyone else. And I, too, would be hesitant about a 26 hour drive!

Now get back to thinking about how much fun that baby is gonna be and stop worrying about what we think!! :D


Everyones opinion counts. We are all adults and make decisions as we must. :D Dogs get shipped everyday. Some Westminster dogs will be going to NY via cargo. I am not comfortable doing it. I have a busy mom who will be flying from Seattle in a week to pick up her pup.

molly
24th January 2007, 11:47 PM
I don't really appreciate all the comments (some are reassuring, which I was looking for) as they are making me feel like less of an owner, and I am NOT a crappy dog owner! Like I said before, I had never thought that flying a dog without an owner would be an option I would explore. This might be the first puppy I "ship." I am sure if it were not safe, that my father-in-law (a vet of 20+ years) and our breeder would have said something by now. Humph... okay... done venting... 'psh!

In your post you asked for personal experiences and information from people and I think that is what you were getting...honest opinions with good information and things to think about from both perspectives. I think what most people may be concerned about is the time of year you are looking to fly a pup cargo...February is going to be cold. And when cargo waits on the tarmac it is cold. The airlines might not even fly the dog if the temperature is not high enough.

I don't think anyone said anything about you as a pet owner. Everyone here loves dogs and is trying to help you with information. Do not take this personal. Just things to think about to make an informed decision that is in the best interests of you and dog.

I was paranoid flying our dog cargo. The week before her flight was when the Westminster winning dog last year escaped from his crate and went missing...last seen running through swamps. Yes, that is rare. But at that time a lot of the dog lists were full of dire warnings about dogs flying cargo. I wish I had not heard all those stories right before her flight.

And my personal opinion is that I would probably not fly a pup cargo in cold winter although I know it is done safely all the time. Again, that is JUST my humble opinion.

I wish you luck in making a decision that YOU are comfortable with (and that is what it is all about). You will do what is the right thing for your situation. If you decide to ship cargo, I am sure the pup will be fine. Our dog had a very good experience.

Roxanne
25th January 2007, 12:03 AM
I have had multiple pets and friends and family's pets flown in via Delta ( cargo) over the years and everyone has been just fine. In my experience ( I have had 2 of my chihuahua's flown in to me from Michigan to Louisiana ,both chi's were only 2 lbs .Colby's breeder got a 1 1/2 lb chi flown in to her from my chi breeder, my SIL got her chi ( 3 lbs) from that breeder as did another friend of mine ....all were pleasant experiences with NO stressed out dogs ) .

Delta hand carries the crates to the plane, there are no crates sitting on tarmacks , and the cargo area is climate controlled to cabin temperature . I have also had them refuse to ship a dog due to the temperature being too high or low ....so they are careful and they do have strict regulations.

I'm not saying nothing can happen . But , Delta has been great in the times we have used them and I wouldnt hesitate getting a dog shipped to me if the flight times were good .

I dont know about the UK .....but getting a dog shipped cargo is cheaper here in the US compared to a flight ticket for yourself and the dog . I think it costs under 200.00 to ship a dog via cargo , compared to a flight of approx 350.00 and a 80.00 ticket for the pup ;)

Cicero's Mummy
25th January 2007, 12:48 AM
Oh... my ... i didn't mean to offend either icon_blshing ... I was just saying... I feel like such a crappy owner!

Anywho... Delta is definately who we are going with. After speaking to them today... it makes me a little more at ease.

Crittercall
25th January 2007, 01:15 AM
And in the long run that's all that matters - how YOU feel about the situation with YOUR dog. :D

I'm sure everything will be fine. I'm a worrier, and worry about any and everything. I've considered driving to KY with Wallis for her surgery because I know the doctor that I would take her to up there and could watch the surgery. I don't have that comfort zone here so I've worried myself into a tizz about it.

But just think - with all the hugs and prayers and wings helping lift and carry that little baby to you - it'll be fine!!

moniechris
25th January 2007, 09:21 PM
If it makes you feel any better, my little Zoey is flying Delta all by her lonesome and is arriving tommorrow night. She is flying from South Dakota all the way to Tampa, Florida (3-4) non stop. I will let you know how everything works out, then maybe both of us can have peace of mind!! :flwr: