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*Pauline*
24th January 2007, 09:25 PM
I met a Boston Terrier today and just googled the breed only to find that they trim their ears. I mean they cut the flesh so the ears are small and pointed. I'm so upset.

arasara
24th January 2007, 09:34 PM
that's not the only breed hun. :(

A lot of breeders also dock dew claws of puppies.

Dobermans I know for sure are ear cropped ~ apparently they are done between 7-8 wks (OUCH!)

schnauzers are also done.

Furthermore they also chop off or "dock" some breeds tails. :( sad huh?

I don't mean to ruin your day!

Jen
24th January 2007, 09:37 PM
and they all look much cuter with natural ears and tails. Gus has natural ears, but the breeder did his tail--he was a rescue, otherwise I would have insisted on leaving it natural as well.

Remali
24th January 2007, 09:39 PM
It's awful what some people do to certain breeds, I think it is worse over here in the U.S. In fact, is anything like that even done at all in the U.K.? It seems that when I've watched dog shows on TV that they don't seem to dock the tails or crop the ears in Egnland. I wish people over here in the U.S. would wake up and stop doing that dreadful stuff.

Yvonne117
24th January 2007, 09:46 PM
Sorry to say just as bad in England, lots of breeds here have their tails docked and dew claws removed.

Karlin
24th January 2007, 09:47 PM
Most CKCS have their dewclaws removed as well (mine don't). More common I think in the US than in UK and Ireland. The UK just passed a law last year that dogs' tails cannot be cropped unless required for working or other specific purposes so expect to see a real change at Crufts in future for competitng dogs from the UK. It will be odd for judges I think judging undocked dogs as well as docked in the same group.


Animal Welfare Act 2006 (England and Wales) - Docking
As from April 2007 it will be illegal to dock puppies' tails (other than for therapeutic reasons or if a breeder can submit evidence to a Veterinary Surgeon that the dog is of a specified type to be used for work, rescue, armed forces, police, pest control).
Regulations pertaining to this law will be approved by April 2007 by England and Wales separately. It will not be permissible for docked dogs to be shown at fee paying shows.

Animal Welfare Act 2006 (Scotland) - Docking
As from 6 April 2007 it will be illegal to dock puppies' tails in Scotland (other than for therapeutic reasons) or to travel across borders to have them docked. Regulations pertaining to this law will be approved by April 2007.



On the rescue side people regularly see horrific injuries and problems caused by poor tail docking. Dogs have come in with rubber bands cutting off all circulation as way of docking the tail, and the whole area festering. :yuk:

Zippy
24th January 2007, 09:54 PM
When we got Charley, the breeder told us that they didn't dock tails but that it was "optional" for Cavaliers!!!

They proceeded to tell us which joint to "do", I think it's the second one.

Has anyone seen a docked Cavalier??

I think it's terribly cruel but if you're showing your Cavalier isn't the feathered tail part of the beauty??

I watch the Westminster Show every year and never thought Cavvies were docked til we met that breeder. Have never heard it since, either. :flwr:

WoodHaven
24th January 2007, 10:04 PM
When we got Charley, the breeder told us that they didn't dock tails but that it was "optional" for Cavaliers!!!

They proceeded to tell us which joint to "do", I think it's the second one.

Has anyone seen a docked Cavalier??

I think it's terribly cruel but if you're showing your Cavalier isn't the feathered tail part of the beauty??

I watch the Westminster Show every year and never thought Cavvies were docked til we met that breeder. Have never heard it since, either. :flwr:

Cocker spaniel tails are docked-- With a cavalier you can take up to a third of the tail off. I don't know why you would. I also have mixed feelings about dewclaws.

cavalicious
24th January 2007, 10:06 PM
In Australia ear cropping and tail docking is illegal :thmbsup:

Darby's Mom
24th January 2007, 10:08 PM
Has anyone seen a docked Cavalier??

Yes, I have seen several of them - even in the show ring! They are still beautiful dogs, but I must admit.... they just look "off!" To me, they scream "part of my tail is missing" and they look very weird to me! Such a large part of a Cavaliers' glory is that beautiful, wagging happy tail!

On a slightly different slant, what are everybody's views on dew claw removal (front) in Cavaliers? Darby had hers removed when she was 2 days old.

Cathy T
24th January 2007, 10:15 PM
Never heard of a Cavalier being docked :yikes The beauty of them, in addition to their incredibly sweet personalities, is that beautiful tail. But then, I think docking in general is wrong anyway.

WoodHaven
24th January 2007, 10:16 PM
If thing like this are done for cosmetic reasons-- I wouldn't do it. But --- hunting dogs have broken tails and ripped dewclaws while in the brush. That can be life threatening-- .
I have a pup with a rear dewclaw-- now that shocked me. sandy

Remi
24th January 2007, 11:34 PM
Remi has dew claws on 3 of her paws, and our vet recommended that we get them removed if we were going to let her interact with our rabbit, Jupiter. The vet said that if for some reason Remi tried to swipe or box Jupiter with a paw the dew claw could scratch the bunny. For that reason alone we were planning on going ahead and having the dew claws removed while she was getting spayed. Plus her dew claws seems so weak I'm afraid they could get caught on something...and the nails curl so much I don't want them to start growing into her skin or something. I guess I didn't think having the dew claws removed was cruel, it doesn't hurt them, does it? :?

Maybe we should rethink it, I just don't want her to accidentally scratch the bunny with them.

Zippy
24th January 2007, 11:47 PM
Charleys' dew claws had been removed when we got him.

Should be alright while under anaesthetic, they repair hernias at that time. :flwr:

Cathy T
25th January 2007, 01:13 AM
Neither of mine has any of their dew claws.

Kodee
25th January 2007, 01:32 AM
I talk about my lab alot, but I havent mentioned I had a doberman when I was in my late teens. I sort of inherited it - as in my sister picked up my show money I won for the Hunter Classic with my horse and then directly gave it to another rider who's dog had pups on the circuit. I saw it when I went to the hotel room, next day I asked for my cheque, um ya.. she had quite the time explaining that one! Then she moved out leaving me the dog? He was untrainable! I got him a "shrink", not aggressive at all, just missing a few rocks - a bit of inbreeding. Eventually, I came home from school and my mom had arranged for the vet to rehome him...nuff said there - there were fireworks needless to say...

Anyways, I had him docked and ears done because... that's the way they look. I know he was up and about in 1 day, full steam in 2 days. My lab took alot longer with her spay and was much more worn out.

Lisa_T
25th January 2007, 01:37 AM
It wasn't until Amber's breeders commented that Holly still had dewclaws and needed them clipped- which they did, there and then- that I even realised she still had them. I read a book on cockers a long time ago saying that dewclaws were always removed since they can potentially curl out and stick into the skin. The author hunted with her dogs as well as showing them, so for a working Cocker who could also get stuff caught on them.. that's reasonable.

I have to admit that while I agree tail docking is wrong, undocked Cockers look 'off' to me. It throws the proportions of a rather square dog off balance. But then, that could simply be the result of poring over too many Cocker books as a kid!

Davy
25th January 2007, 01:51 AM
I have to admit that while I agree tail docking is wrong, undocked Cockers look 'off' to me. It throws the proportions of a rather square dog off balance. But then, that could simply be the result of poring over too many Cocker books as a kid!

Nar I prefer Cockers with tails. Over my local park there are now more cockers with tails than without. My heartbreaks when my brothers’ Cocker tries so hard to wag her stump, she just can’t seem to get across how happy she is. I swear she could wag her tail as mad as Cavalier if she been given the chance. :(

I did see one black Cocker, which had a pure white tail. It was before they stopped docking so it was a strange site anyway. But I must admit it did look like someone had come along and stuck a fake tail the dog.

I found this link Karlin had put on before on how dogs look like with their tails.

http://www.anti-dockingalliance.co.uk/page_5.htm

alibunnylady
25th January 2007, 11:06 AM
Sorry to say just as bad in England, lots of breeds here have their tails docked and dew claws removed.

The Kennel Club have recently passed a new bill to ban the docking of tails in the UK. Not sure when it will come into effect though.

Working dog owners are actually against the ban because they say the tail needs to be docked because it can get injured.

Personally, I think all docking and dew claw removal should be banned and if anyone wants it done, they should wait til the dog is old enough to have an anaesthetic and have it done that way and be charged an extrorionate amount for it.

I strongly believe a dog's tail is there to show how happy it is.

Alison

AT
25th January 2007, 11:39 AM
Sorry to say just as bad in England, lots of breeds here have their tails docked and dew claws removed.


Personally, I think all docking and dew claw removal should be banned and if anyone wants it done, they should wait til the dog is old enough to have an anaesthetic and have it done that way and be charged an extrorionate amount for it.

Alison

I don't like docking personally but in my breed pups can be born with very bent tails so it is neccessery to dock them at a few days old for their future wellbeing.

But docking an adult ( or older puppies ) tail is a horrible procedure , I talked to a specialist about it a couple of weeks ago , he said there is a huge risk of infection & its very, very painful :x not something that should be done withought a very good reason .

I do know of people who have bought pups with full tails & had them docked for the show ring.
I had a fight with one woman , She put her perfect new pup through an anisthetic for the sake of the tip of its tail , it was barely noticable it had even been done.

Did anyone see that program a few months ago about cosmetic surgery on pets , The pitbull pups who had their ears cropped & were screaming when they woke up , then they went all shriveled up when they had healed so they looked even worse.
Thankgod its illegal here

I just dont understand why people put there dogs at risk for the sake of looks . We lost a dog after an eye surgery & that was bad enough , imagine the guilt you would feel if they died during something like ear cropping that was purely for your own ego

Barbara Nixon
25th January 2007, 11:54 AM
I've never seen a docked cavalier and on asking if anyone had a photo of such, got no response. I certainly prefer the tail, cruelty aside, as it helps the grace of the dog's movement.movement.

I learned about docking, when I read the breed standard, which says it's optional (UK). Monty's breeder (11 years ago) said that some years before that, she had docked her cavaliers, but when legislation came out, her vet refused to dock for cosmetic reasons, so she left the dogs as nature intended and was actually glad about the wake up call.

I believe that Dobbies and Danes are commonly ear cropped in the US, the excuse being that the dogs look fiercer. I was horrified to read , on the site of a security firm, that they actually crop up to the age of 6 months ! It must be excruciatingly painful; you only have to touch (not even pinch) your own ear to see how sensitive it is.

AT
25th January 2007, 12:00 PM
I saw a docked cavalier in the vet , he'd had cancer so had to have his tail removed right down to the base , he looked very ,very odd

yvonne
25th January 2007, 06:46 PM
My brother has a st. bernard (posted in friends photos) had his dew claws removed. The vet recommended it be done on this particular breed????
Y

*Pauline*
27th January 2007, 03:01 PM
Did anyone see that program a few months ago about cosmetic surgery on pets , The pitbull pups who had their ears cropped & were screaming when they woke up , then they went all shriveled up when they had healed so they looked even worse.
Thankgod its illegal here
I saw the start of it but had to turn over, couldn't watch. That woman was so vain and stupid. I hope it opened peoples eyes to how cruel it is.

BarbMazz
27th January 2007, 03:13 PM
Both my Cavs have their dew claws.... three each. I do have to trim them more often than the other nails, and they do curl inward a lot. I've read how painful a procedure it is, especially in older dogs. I would not consider it! Ouch!

My Golden has his dew claws, which are nice and straight and easy to clip.

My Springer has her tail docked. I looked, and it was done when she was two days old... dew claws removed at the same time. :( Springers have beautiful full tails, too, when left natural.

I'm ashamed to admit I'd always assumed "it's the way it's done for certain breeds". Now, I know better! :(

babyC
27th January 2007, 10:53 PM
docked tail Cavalier :yikes :yikes

WoodHaven
28th January 2007, 03:31 AM
docked tail Cavalier :yikes :yikes

They only take a little off--- they leave a huge length.

Crittercall
28th January 2007, 07:54 AM
In my experience, docking of tails and removal of dew claws is done before the puppy is 5 days old. The ears wait until the dog is a bit older and have more cartilege so that they will "stand" better. You wouldn't believe the number of times that I've seen some dogs (dobies or schnauzers mostly) come in because their ears weren't standing properly. We kept a supply of little plastic crown-looking things that the ears were glued then taped to so that they would be forced to stand - until the dog got the thing off. Another dr would use a tampon and tape it to the ear.

I have seen dewclaws removed on older dogs and it is considered major surgery. When they are young pups the bone isn't really hardened and they can be just clipped off. When they are older it is like having a finger amputated. You just have to be careful to make sure that the nail on the dewclaw is kept trimmed, otherwise there is a risk of it growing into the pad then you are looking at surgery to fix that.

One of the most awful things in the world is the ear docking. I never assisted on a surgery on that but did have to help clean up. The ears are very vascular so it is a messy surgery. And when the poor dogs wake up they are screaming in pain, shaking their heads wondering what has happened.

I think that the policy on pain medication for dogs after surgery has changed since then, but when I was working they were never given anything to give them any relief. It was always heartbreaking.

Tail docking on puppies is just a snip and a couple of sutures. On an older dog it is major surgery. And you can tell that the older dog knows that something is missing when its tail is gone.

And we won't get into people who have pitbulls and have the ears docked as short as possible along with the tail. These were dogs that we knew were headed to the "ring" for a fight.

Wallis's breeder usually did the dewclaws on her pups but Wallis's litter got missed somehow. I think Sasha and Tibby both have theirs.

And an interesting note, Great Pyrenese have double dewclaws. Strange looking - kind of like a 6-toed cat!

selina
29th January 2007, 01:18 AM
I used to get the dew claws removed from the pups I bred when they were 2 or 3 days old. I refused to dock and crop and now we cant in Australia anyway which suits me fine. But I would remove the dewclaws because I found they did curl really badly as they got older and having seen first hand what happens when one is accidently ripped off I thought it a good idea. But I wont be removing the golden pups dewclaws cos they dont seem to cause a problem for them.

selina
29th January 2007, 01:18 AM
I used to get the dew claws removed from the pups I bred when they were 2 or 3 days old. I refused to dock and crop and now we cant in Australia anyway which suits me fine. But I would remove the dewclaws because I found they did curl really badly as they got older and having seen first hand what happens when one is accidently ripped off I thought it a good idea. But I wont be removing the golden pups dewclaws cos they dont seem to cause a problem for them.