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View Full Version : So sad tonight...Rudy is struggling



Terri Voltz
29th January 2007, 04:11 AM
MVD. I hate the term. Rudy had such a hard night last night and right now isn't breathing well. My vet is not really up on all this...so I'm turning to you folks. Last night at 4:00 AM he was clawing at his cage (which USED to be his comfort place) to get out....panting and drooling, which he never does. He seemed desperate to get out for whatever reason. We let him out potty, gave him some fresh water, and then he just sat there with a panic look in his eyes. We let him come to bed with us, but he paced, and laid down, got up and repeated this until about 6:00 am when he was finally able to lay down and get some rest. All day he seems different. I'm in total turmoil...I so love him but I think it might be time. He can't seem to get comfortable in any position. I'm telling my husband that I don't think we're doing him any service by letting this go on. The last few mornings,, and when I got up this morning, and I was at the bathroom sink, he just sits there like a statute, with his throat extented, his head held up, and just looks at me without hardly moving. It is so unlike his normal sweet easygoing manner. It seems as though he is in total pain or something. I have read somewhere (maybe here??) that MVD is not characteristic of pain....but that's what I seem to be reading in his face and eyes. HELP!!! I want to do the right thing for him. Right now as I'm writing this, it's between tears and sobs....so forgive me. My hustband is a total basketcase...any advise????? I'm leaning towards euthenizing him this week, but if anyone has any words to convince me otherwise....I'm WIDE open. Love-and thanks-Terri :(

Cathy T
29th January 2007, 04:14 AM
Ah God...you're breaking my heart. I can feel your distress. I wish I could say something to ease your mind. I can't imagine the turmoil you are in. You hate to see him in discomfort but don't know what to do. I just wanted to let you know I'm feeling your pain and hope someone will pop in here with some words of wisdom for you. {{{hugs}}} :( Poor Rudy.

Zippy
29th January 2007, 04:26 AM
We've been through the same thing with our beloved Charley.

I am so sorry that you're having to go through this also.

Rudy is beautiful.

One thing you might do, is check the colour of his gums.

If they're pink, he's getting oxygen.

If they're blue-ish, he's short of oxygen.

My thoughts are with you and your family as you help Rudy. :flwr: :flwr:

toblerone
29th January 2007, 05:07 AM
"We let him come to bed with us, but he paced, and laid down, got up and repeated this until about 6:00 am when he was finally able to lay down and get some rest. ..... The last few mornings,, and when I got up this morning, and I was at the bathroom sink, he just sits there like a statute, with his throat extented, his head held up, and just looks at me without hardly moving...."

I'm sorry I didn't see this earlier. I don't know what you might have decided. I'll relay our story to see if it helps. We were in what seems like a very similar position with Gizmo on Friday night. I called the kids to come over to say goodbye. He was unable to lay down. His neck was stretched out and he was breathing very rapidly. Friday night he was so tired he was staggering but he couldn't get comfortable. We took him to the vet on Saturday morning. She thought he had ascites, fluid in his abdomen. She was able to drain off about 450 cc or a pound of fluid. We could have gotten more but we all were exhausted at this point.

He was much, much better afterwards. He's been able to sleep and get up and down the stairs to the backyard.

We were right with him with the fluid was drained off and other than the prick when the needle went in, he did not seem uncomfortable. I'm waiting now to see how long this lasts and we are speaking with the vet tomorrow to see if the addition of another type of diuretic would help.

The procedure was definitely worth it for him. We were ready to give up since he seemed in such distress. This is gone. It's a real balancing act about how much you decide you want to do. If he hadn't gotten such immediate relief from this I think we would have made the decision to put him down as hard as that is to contempate. I'm also under no illusions that this has really fixed anything, it has just given us a little more time and he feels better.

If you want to pm me for additional information or just to talk please feel free to. Thinking of you and Rudy and hoping for the best.

Margaret

rory
29th January 2007, 05:43 AM
I'm so sorry Rudy is having such a hard time!!!! :( Is he at the end of the line as far as meds go?? I know there are quite a few options out there. Can you increase his dosage of furosemide or other drugs at all?? What does your vet say? Are you working with a cardiologist at all or just your regular vet?

So sorry I can't be of more help. I really feel for you... I know how hard it is to watch our babies in pain and feel so helpless to do anything!! I would talk to your vet about options and see if there is anything that may increase his quality of life for a while longer or if youo really are at the end of the line. there may be something out there you haven't tried. Have you tried Pimobenden? ACE-inhibitors (enalapril)? Furosemide? Furosemide dose can be increased quite a lot, I know.


Sendings hugs your way...

luvzcavs
29th January 2007, 05:49 AM
I can not offer any advice but wanted to say I am thinking of you. This is such a difficult decision to make and it has to be your own.
Can you find a vet that has better experience with MVD incase there may be different drugs to try or another dose ?
I am praying for healing and comfort to come to you and Rudy whatever path you take. :hug:

Karlin
29th January 2007, 01:01 PM
I'm sorry to hear you are going through all of this. When you say your vet isn't up on MVD, has he called a vet who is, to get advice on treatments? I would switch vets otherwise to find someone who is familiar with MVD as it is quite common in toy breeds and you need someone who knows the rage of treatments and when to start them. Is Rudy taking anything at all? There are many very straightforward and well established routes that can be taken to make MVD dogs comfortable and give them months to years of relatively normal life. Please do not consider euthenising him if none of these meds have been tried yet. Some can bring a total turnaround wthin days, even hours in some cases, if the dog has not been on the right mix of medication or on anything at all.

This is a good place to start -- print this out for your vet:

http://cavaliertalk.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=561

Terri Voltz
29th January 2007, 01:40 PM
Thanks to all who replied, Rudy had a better night. He's on Enalapril, for 2 months now, and Furosemide, which we increase the dosage when we are home, but decrease when going to work, since he has to pee so much with it. We also had fuid drained from his tummy last Thursday and the week prior as well. A total of 6 cups of fluid. And yes, it did help quite a bit for about 2-3 days. But is now as full again as ever. Our problem has become what we can afford to spend on vet bills. I know that sounds heartless, but we've already put $700 towards what amounts to an incurable problem, and have family issues with kids that is requiring our money. Draining him at $30 a pop, for a couple days of relief is tough. We're feeling a little less hopeless this morning, however, and he's wagging his tail right now...that's good! Thanks again everyone, so glad I found this message board! :flwr:

Mary
29th January 2007, 01:45 PM
Thinking of you and Rudy. Life can be so difficult. I work as a nursing home nurse and daily I watch people struggle with life because we can add a "few more days" with our medical knowledge. I guess this is sometimes good and sometimes not. With our pets when the time is right(and you will know) it is a gift to let them go.

toblerone
29th January 2007, 02:17 PM
"We also had fuid drained from his tummy last Thursday and the week prior as well. A total of 6 cups of fluid. And yes, it did help quite a bit for about 2-3 days. But is now as full again as ever."

Sorry to hear about this. I know that I was hoping this might be more lasting help.

Expense is a real issue and as others have noted it is a personal issue when enough is enough, both for your family and for Rudy.

One more comment, you mentioned:
"Furosemide, which we increase the dosage when we are home, but decrease when going to work, since he has to pee so much with it." This is a very practical issue for people who cannot be home all the time. On the chance that more aggressive dosages of furosemide might help, you could consider belly bands with a sanitary women urine pad attached. We used this for our older dog when he was unable to wait or more than two or three hours without peeing. And now we are using it with Gizmo. It reduces one of the more practical problems for dogs on a diuretic.

My thoughts are with you.

Margaret

Nicki
29th January 2007, 02:20 PM
I'm so sorry to hear that you are going through this with Rudy :flwr: :flwr: :flwr:

It's good that he's a bit more comfortable today - it is a very hard balancing act with the medication, you need to keep adjusting the doses until you find what works for him.

I don't know that I'd want to put one of my dogs through that procedure for just a few days relief, financial considerations aside - I'm not sure that a vet will carry it out that frequently anyway. I think maybe you should be asking the vet at looking at a different diuretic? Could you get to a cardiologist?

I hope that Rudy keeps as well as possible for as long as possible

*Pauline*
29th January 2007, 11:52 PM
I can't offer any advice as I have no experience but I'm so sorry for you going through this distressing time. I'll mention you and Rudy in my prayers tonight. :hug:

pippa
30th January 2007, 12:30 AM
So sorry to hear what poor Rudy is going through. Thinking of you and wishing you all well :flwr:

Ruth
30th January 2007, 12:46 AM
So sorry to read about Rudy and his difficulties.
Your description fits a boy of mine to a T - I was on my way to have him euthanised as I couldn't bear to watch him unable to lie down or sitting with his head in the air to try to gain more oxygen. My vet had a newish tablet called Vetmedin (Pimobendan in the States). We tried it and within a week my boy was almost a puppy again. I had a further wonderful twelve months with him.
I could be mistaken but I understood Furosemide acted fairly quickly, couldn't you give him his regular dose with time for it to act before you go to work. I don't think the see-sawing of the dose is a good idea. What about putting a belly band with a pad on him while you are out?
I could imagine the clawing at the crate could be he is almost claustrophobic because he is struggling to breathe.
I do hope you can sort things out for the little chap, as horrible as MVD is, it can usually be managed with a good vet, at least until all options have been tried.
Ruth

Karlin
30th January 2007, 02:10 AM
Even getting up early enough to give him furosemide and then getting him out for a wee 45-60 minutes later will probably solve any leaking. My SM boy was on furosemide for a while and as long as he had a wee within 45-90 minutes of having the pill, he was fine after that 99% of the time. A belly band would solve any drips.

Maxxs_Mummy
31st January 2007, 10:50 PM
Hi Terri

So very sorry to hear how poorly little Rudy is :( I agree with Karlin about how quickly the Frusemide works. Maxx is on it for SM and he usually gets the side effects within 90 minutes then he goes to the garden and pees for England!

I hope you can find a reasonably affordable treatment for your little man and that he has many years left yet. :hug: for you both :flwr:

Pepsi
3rd February 2007, 03:53 PM
Hi Terri,

How is Rudy doing how? He is beautiful. I also have a boy with MVD, and like you we give him more diuretics when we're at home all day. Is Rudy on Vetmedin (Pimobendan)? Charlie has been on this a little over a month, and it definitely seems to be helping him.

Thinking of you,
Pepsi x