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Cicero's Mummy
20th February 2007, 02:43 PM
Okay... so the In-laws finally got on the ball and called our breeder about Cicero coming home this weekend... and get this... she said it would be about 2 more weeks or so before he was ready!!! We found out she has a really hard time of letting go of her pups that she sells, this is the only reason she is holding onto them all for 2 more weeks.

My fil (the vet) spoke to her and told her about the situation and that since he was already 12 weeks, that it should be fine for him. But, we haven't heard back from her (she is to call if she changes her mind).

So... all in all... this really sucks... looks like we have another 2 weeks to wait. I was so upset that she just changed her mind on how old he had to be because of her separation issues. The father-in-law is still working on getting her to "let go."

Bruce, maybe you might be able to offer some advice that will give me some sympathy towards her?? Last night I spent 2 hours crying because she isn't delivering like she promised... it just is so annoying!!

Needless to say, we are all pretty peeved' on this end. Including my mil and fil... they had already arranged plans and such for flying and traveling (they are 3 hours from SLC). My father in law is the most upset because she is not listening to what we are saying. I mean we have already arranged for me to take off Friday and Monday and then hubby has taken off the entire week of the 26th!! This is something you can only do once in med school per year... and now it is wasted!!! She just isn't listening that 12 weeks is old enough to go home (again the attachment issues) and that we have made scheduling perfect to introduce Cicero into our home and environment... I mean we did everything on our part and she is doing nothing!!

IMHO... My breeder should be very happy at this point that we can't mention names here because we are very very upset (and are not going to use her when we get our second cavie -- in about a two years, yes we already have it planned in our long term plans -- we're geeks).

HELP!! I NEED SOME CONSOLING WORDS AS I WAIT THESE EXTRA 2 WEEKS!!


** I added a poll so you could all be anonymous with your opinion on this if you wish. **

Lani
20th February 2007, 02:50 PM
I feel for you Raven. How horrible given all the planning that you have been through. You'd think as a professional breeder she'd be used to letting the puppies go. Especially when she knows they are going to a home as good as yours, which is so evident given all the planning you've gone through to make things perfect for her.

On the plus side, you ARE still getting the dog, but I would be upset too that you have to wait and that all the planning you and your family has done and your husband taking that week off.

:hug:

Cicero's Mummy
20th February 2007, 02:53 PM
I know it should have been a little bit of a red flag when we went to visit her, because she still had a few pups from the last litter and they were all about 16 weeks old... :roll:

Stupid me... stupid me...

coconut
20th February 2007, 02:58 PM
oh raven i feel for u!! I have my fingers crossed that ur father in law will change her mind!!

joanna
20th February 2007, 03:10 PM
I think your breeder is being really selfish by keeping the puppies until all the puppiness is virtually gone. Twelve weeks is long enough to keep the pups. I totally sympathise with your situation and I would be livid if it were me. The novelty of a puppy is something a breeder gets more than any of us and she should not be depriving you of these precious two weeks.

casshon
20th February 2007, 03:12 PM
That is annoying for you but you can be sure of one thing - Cicero is obviously very much loved by the breeder so in 2 weeks time you will be sure to get a happy bundle of joy.

You never know, she may change her mind when she hears all the trouble and planning you have gone through ;)

arasara
20th February 2007, 03:30 PM
sorry to hear of this Raven. :( And when I just sent you an excited PM yesterday asking about when Cicero was coming home!!

There is two ways to look at this situation, as you already know. I mean, yes it makes you angry and it's a pain in the butt.. Logically speaking if there aren't any medical issues with the pup he should have been ready at 12 weeks, but you can also look at it from the other side. He'll be getting 2 extra weeks of socialization, that's 2 less weeks of potty accidents (and hopefully your breeder is diligently working on PT at this stage.)

If it were me, I still would want Cicero at 12 weeks. I got Faith at 10 weeks and I don't regret getting her at the age that I did for anything. We have had a few accidents, but that's to be expected. By the time she was 12 weeks she knew sit and she no longer nips when getting treats.

I dunno Raven, hopefully you can get her to change her mind :flwr:

Sue.k
20th February 2007, 03:34 PM
Oh that is just terrible, I would be so upset! After all the planning you have put in, I hope she changes her mind, she is very selfish :x

Barb B
20th February 2007, 03:48 PM
Yes Raven, I think it's perfectly natural that you are upset. You, your husband, your MIL and FIL have all made specific scheduling arrangements that are difficult to change, and have made a financial investment in tickets (don't think there are any plane tickets anymore that you can change without incurring a large penalty?). These facts trump just about any reason to re-schedule the "pickup" date unless Cicero was ill.

I certainly hope that you'll be able to work this out. Like Sara, I've been wondering when Cicero would be going home; almost started a thread on it last night! Will be thinking of you and hoping for the very best.

WoodHaven
20th February 2007, 03:57 PM
Barb has about said it all.
You have made plans to help the pup acclimate to your home and lifestyle and she seems to have just ignored all that for possibly no good reason. I would want her to tell me why she thinks they have to be held for a longer time. (she may have a valid reason)
Thank goodness you don't have children who are also being disappointed. Sandy

Vickie
20th February 2007, 03:57 PM
Oh Raven,

How annoying (to be polite!) I personally think that she is being so selfish, if there is nothing preventing Cicero's healthwise, from letting him go then it is really unbelievble.

As has been said, you have made all of the preparations and scheduling for the pick up to work in the way that was planned, does she know that all of the arrangements were set and that your DH had scheduled an unchangable week out of med school to help little Cicero settle into his new home, does she not realise that this wont be possible if she puts the date back? Surely she would be happier knowing that he was being settled into his home in such a caring way that you have been planning rather than just thinking about having him around her for another 2 weeks?

:oops: sorry got onto a bit of a rant there!

I'm thinking of you, hoping that your fil manages to make her see sense ... let us know what happens :flwr:

Lindsay
20th February 2007, 04:15 PM
Have you put any money down on him to hold him for you? If so, I would have written up an agreement on when and how I could pick him up.

So sorry that this delay has come about. Maybe it will work out after all. :flwr:

Cicero's Mummy
20th February 2007, 04:19 PM
okay everyone... here is a cc of the email I just emailed to her...

was it okay to email this?? I hope so!!

Thank you to all those who pm'ed me with encouragement. And for all those who posted, I thank you as well.

Following email was sent to our breeder... I have x'ed out her name and John and Wendy are the in-laws.


Dear XXXX-

We talked to John and Wendy last night and were saddened (i cried for awhile) to find out that Cicero would not be coming home yet.

I am writing to ask you to please reconsider. I understand that you may be a little anxious about it, I am as well. I wish that I could fly out there personally!! The only reason I am asking that you reconsider is that, while flying now is a little shy of the age you recommend, it would be in our opinion beneficial to Cicero in the long run. We also, like you, want what is best for Cicero and would never want to put him in danger or harms way. I belong to a cavalier board and can tell you that I have put tons of thought into whether or not to email you about this topic. I do however have friends on the board that had their dogs flown to them at 8 and 10 weeks, and they said that their cavies were just wonderful. Upon arrival, they bounced out of their cage all ready to play.

Another reason why we think it would be beneficial to Cicero is our schedules. I have off both Friday and Monday to help him adjust (the last days I get off this year until August) and Trevor has off the week of the 26th (Monday) to March 2nd (Friday). We felt this weekend would be wonderful for him to come into a new environment seeing that we would have ample time to work on having him adjust and having us home to watch him progress.

I know that you love each one of your Cavie babies and want what is best for them! I completely understand and respect this. I also have already a special place in my heart for Cicero. I plan to keep you updated and send lots of photos and let you know how he is. I would even keep you posted as to the progress of his flight and his arrival. Anything that would make you feel more at ease or sure of sending him to us.

I was very heartbroken that we have done so much work to make sure that he was coming home into a wonderful and warm environment, and then find out we have to wait 2 more weeks. I am saddened because I will not be able to take off a day to spend with him, like I had already made arrangements for this weekend.

I am humbly asking you to please reconsider sending him home this weekend so that we can have time to bond with him, take him over to his daycare to make sure it is the right choice (yes, we can't bear to leave him at home alone so we have a wonderful daycare for him with a puppy nursery and everything), introduce him to the vet here, and just help him get adjusted to his new home and life here in Columbus. We feel so bad because we are missing out on so much of his "puppyhood" so far.

Like I mentioned, I am willing to call you every half hour and keep you updated on his progress, all i need is your number (i will be tracking the plane all day, no matter what day he flies). I can send you photos of his safe arrival (we are taking plenty for his scrapbook).

Thank you for your consideration and we look forward to having Cicero home with us, whenever that may be.

Sincerely-
Raven

Shay
20th February 2007, 04:20 PM
Why is she just now telling you that she is going to keep him 2 more weeks? Did she orginally say that you could have him at 12 weeks? Has she actually said why she is keeping him 2 more weeks? This is just crazy!

Cicero's Mummy
20th February 2007, 04:24 PM
Yes, she said 12 weeks is what she feels comfortable for him to fly (any way of flying, with person or not). Now she is saying she meant 14 weeks.

I feel so bad that we are missing out!

He is our puppy... we have already done all the necessary paperwork and everything! That is another reason why I just don't understand!

She at first said he could come home at 8 weeks, so we planned on the end of January... and then got told, no 4 more weeks. We were like, okay we understand. Now it is 4 more weeks and we are getting told 2 more!?!?!?

Kodee
20th February 2007, 04:30 PM
I really disagree there is any positive in keeping a puppy past 12 wks. Sure you can argue they get the extra socialization with the litter etc. but they loose BIG time on bonding with the new family. 8-12 wks a little bit of 12-16 is the time puppy's socialize and that INCLUDES ACCEPTING THE NEW FAMILY in that scenario as the new pack.

To boot, your family has gone to extensive arrangements that cant and shouldnt be altered. Its important your husband is off work to be there while the puppy bonds in its new home environment.

I am sorry, I am sure my post is adding to your anger/frustration and I dont have any advice - other than to state a breeder like that should find a new hobby/job, she is not cut out for it. She is doing more harm than good for everyone including herself. But, in the end, what can you do. Its not like you can just up and go purchase at another store (this time - next time I wouldnt go back to her or recommend her).

Linda
20th February 2007, 04:31 PM
Raven

I am so sorry that you are having to go through this, just does not seem fair.


Both Dudley & Darby came home around 8 to 9 weeks, and my breeder is wonderful and extremely reputable.
She is very into the health of cavaliers, sorry you stated in your email that you don't have her phone number.

That confuses me a little. ?????????????

Was all your communication with her by email.

KimNIndy
20th February 2007, 04:34 PM
hi raven---you poor thing!

yes i agree that the breeder is being totally selfish and very unreasonable. i think that the fact that you and your hubby have made so many arrangements to give cicero the best welcome possible means that the breeder is making things worse for cicero rather than better for him. (not that he will have any less welcome of course, but you know what i mean!!!)

the letter is perfect and you should definately send it and follow up with a phone call or two....you have every right to have cicero when you planned and it's not fair on all three of you that the money you have spent and the time taken off will be wasted.

good luck and please keep us posted!

:flwr: k

Cicero's Mummy
20th February 2007, 04:34 PM
FIL was our main source of contact other than the emails her and I have sent. FIL is her vet, so he saw her for all the puppy check ups and they have her number.

We did go out there over Christmas and that is when we were told 8 weeks.

All of this is just frustrating... and like I mentioned in the first post... we are definately NOT going to be using her again.

Linda
20th February 2007, 04:37 PM
We'll if I were you I would be getting her phone number from my FIL and phoning her.

It is obvious that she is having a hard time letting go, mind boggling and your FIL is her VET.

Call her I would, you have arranged to take time off she should be considerate to your feelings/schedule and not just her seperation anxiety.

Sue.k
20th February 2007, 04:38 PM
I think the email you sent her is just perfect, if she does not agree to send him to you now she is a very very selfish woman. The fact that you have all the paperwork done up and all the arrangements made she had no right to change the date. Keep us posted, if she has any decency at all she will reply to your email straight away and agree to your request.

Kodee
20th February 2007, 04:39 PM
I think the email you sent her is just perfect, if she does not agree to send him to you now she is a very very selfish woman. The fact that you have all the paperwork done up and all the arrangements made she had no right to change the date. Keep us posted, if she has any decency at all she will reply to your email straight away and agree to your request.That breeder is beyond selfish, she is unprofessional and a sad example of a breeder.

Linda
20th February 2007, 04:40 PM
Raven

How many puppies were in the litter. ???????

Cathy T
20th February 2007, 04:43 PM
To sum it up....that sucks! 12 weeks is the perfect time for him to come home and you had already made all of the arrangements. If she had told you at the start she wouldn't release him until 14 weeks....no problem. But to change it now...that's just not right. I brought Jake home at 10 weeks and Shelby at 12 weeks. 12 weeks was perfect, she had a lot more experience under her belt at 12 weeks and was well on her way to being housetrained. We brought her home at 12 weeks by our own choice to fit our returning from vacation.

I would be very upset. It's not the issue that she wants to keep him until 14 weeks. That really would be okay. It's the fact that she keeps changing her mind about when. Here you do the responsible thing and make arrangements to your schedule to be home with him....and she throws a monkey wrench in the whole works.

Sorry Raven....this just isn't fair!!

Cicero's Mummy
20th February 2007, 04:43 PM
There were 6. Five boys (2 blen, 3 tri) and one girl (tri). She told us we could have pick of the litter, minus the girl. We were so thrilled... and that is what led us to little Cicero... even if the girl was availble (we wanted a girl going in) we would have chosen Cicero... he was so much cuter, imho!

Cathy T
20th February 2007, 04:45 PM
I just checked the poll...and 100% would be upset. So....you are correct in your feelings and we support you.

Denise G.
20th February 2007, 04:47 PM
Raven--I don't blame you a bit for being frustrated. That's just plain unreasonable unless she has a really good reason for keeping him for two more weeks. If she does, she should explain it to you. Your email sounded great--very direct, but not rude or hysterical. :) You don't want to set her off at this point... You've made such detailed and thorough preparation for little Cicero, she should be thrilled that he's going to such a good home.

Crossing my fingers for you that she "sees the light" and sends Cicero to you as planned. :)

Linda
20th February 2007, 04:51 PM
How do you feel about calling her. ????

I really don't see why you should not, do you feel comfortable with her.

The litter was big at 6, so knowing your circumstances why can't she let you have him. Maybe the other puppy buyers live in her hometown, and have not had to go to all this re-arrangement.

I can't believe it I would be screaming, sorry I know that does not help.

I was all over my breeder when Darby was born because the lady who Darby's mom lives with could not decide if she wanted him or not so she was waiting for her to decide. But I was very persistent, as I had been on that waiting list for 2 years.

I feel very comfortable with my breeder, if you are not comfortable with her then wait and see if she answers your email.

Keep us posted, got everything crossed for you that he comes home this wkd.

Cicero's Mummy
20th February 2007, 04:54 PM
I was almost in hysterics while crying last night. And my poor hubby feels like it was all his fault (totally is not) because his parents are the ones who are dealing with her directly... ugh... I don't want to call as of yet (until I talk to fil again today, he is in the state legislature so he is in session all day, I will contact this evening). So... now it is just a waiting game... which makes me so anxious... I don't even know if she checks her email often or not... oh I am such a mess today!

We have until Thursday to book a Friday flight, Friday for a Saturday flight... and so on... hoping that they are not all full already!

I even looked at a flight for me to fly out there if that is my only option... so it will be another $760.00 (plus 50 for Cicero) later if this is the route we have to take...

Vickie
20th February 2007, 05:04 PM
Raven :hug: 's your e-mail very perfect, I think it expressed exactly how you are feeling and the extensive effort you have gone to in order to settle Cicero into your home.

I'd give her a few hours to get back to you, bearing in mind that she has obviously got puppies to be dealing with, and if you'd had no reply get her number from your fil and speak to her, not nastily, in the same tone as your e-mail ... hopefully you can appeal to her more sensible and less selfish side?

let us know how it goes :flwr:

Laura&Lia
20th February 2007, 05:34 PM
I'm getting upset by moments reading that!!!!

What thinks that person she is to play with people feelings? how can a woman be so so selfish??

Cathy Moon
20th February 2007, 06:47 PM
Raven, if the puppies were born on Dec 12, they are only 10 weeks old. I can see the breeder wanting to wait until he is 12 weeks old, which is 2 weeks from now. Our breeder releases them at 11-12 weeks of age. Plus she may be uncomfortable about shipping him to you versus having you accompany him.

Cicero's Mummy
20th February 2007, 06:57 PM
Our breeder told us the pups were born on December 12th... but we found out it is just one more thing she is not telling the truth on. The ultrasound my fil was doing was on a different litter we found out. So, we are just finding out she wasn't honest on A LOT of things at this point. Our dog wasn't from the litter born on the 12th... she is "selling" those at her "full-price." She even told us it was a different dad than the one that it really was.

Karlin
20th February 2007, 06:59 PM
There's something not quite right with that breeder, IMHO. This is bizarre -- to keep shifting around the dates of delivery. I have never heard of any reputable breeder doing anything like this. How can she possibly have only just remembered it's another two weeks? Especially if you have been in contact with her about the delivery date? And how very strange to have been willing to let him go at 8 weeks -- which is unusually early for reputable US breeders -- and now insisting on 14 weeks -- which is quite old for most breeders to release puppies?

If you do not get the answer you want from her, quite honestly I would be considering looking for another breeder. Or I would be considering legal action if you have copies of earlier emails stating a 12 week delivery and especially if she has a deposit. What happens next -- 14 weeks becomes 16 weeks? Can anyone actually visit this woman and verify that these puppies are healthy and that the real reason isn;t that something is wrong?

I am sorry to sound so negative on this but quite honestly this would set alarm bells ringing for me -- I have never, ever heard of any breeder doing something like this except people with questionable breeding operations with sick pups that they cannot deliver or who are scamming people. Can you check out the breeder with the relevant breed club? I would be filing a complaint about her actions as well, once you do have Cicero -- this is NOT a normal mental state for a breeder nd is seriously upsetting for a puppy buyer to encounter.
:shock:

Cicero's Mummy
20th February 2007, 07:06 PM
Can anyone actually visit this woman and verify that these puppies are healthy and that the real reason isn;t that something is wrong?


:shock:

She just had the pups into my fil's office and they are all in perfect health (which makes this mind boggeling). Personally in my opinion, she is starting to fit the discription of an animal collector (or horder) to me.

My inlaws gave the same advice as you Karlin... that if I didn't have the pup home in the next two week to start seeking elsewhere... I have actually already emailed and talked with a breeder in my area about this situation and about possibly having to just give up poor Cicero before even having him (which the thought at this point has me in tears) and get a different dog from a breeder here in Ohio which I know is reputable (i have been dealing with, talking to, and attending dog shows with her for the past year).

My poor hubby feels like this is all his fault because it was his father that lined this up for us. I told him it wasn't his fault because the breeder was even lying to his father. It is sad that he has been made aware of it by this circumstance!

Chardonnay
20th February 2007, 07:23 PM
Oh gosh -- this is awful. To have to give up on the pup you've had your heart set on all along...how terribly sad. And if it comes to that, what is to become of poor little Cicero and all his littermates? :(

Lindsay
20th February 2007, 07:24 PM
I am with Karlin on this...there are red flags EVERYWHERE! It would be a tough decision to make, but I think I would tell this lady to just keep her pups and find a very reliable and honest breeder. It will not be worth it in the long run to buy from someone who does not have the dog's best interest in mind. At the first sign of dishonesty from her I would have headed for the hills. I would not buy a car from a dishonest salesman trying to tell me it was 2 years newer than it actually was, I would not buy an appliance from a dishonest salesman who was telling me it was new when it was used, and I certainly would not buy a puppy from a dishonest breeder who was trying to tell me the pup was 2 weeks younger than it is!

I know that it would be hard to decide to go with someone else at this point and I know that the puppies have checked out health-wise thus far, but it only takes days for a "healthy" puppy to become a very sick puppy. The whole thing just seems very shady and I would hate to hear that you and your puppy became victims in this.

There is alot of information on this board about what actually makes a reliable breeder reliable, and it certainly does not include lying to potential buyers of the puppies!

I know that is harsh, but I feel like you need to hear that and be 100% sure of what you are getting into with this woman. With her, it sounds like you will NEVER really know what you are getting. :(

Crittercall
20th February 2007, 07:25 PM
Raven, I tend to agree with Karlin's oppinion. This is a breeder with definate issues which would make me wonder about the dogs she raises.

I wish you could have waited until you were a bit less hysterical before getting in touch with her. I'm not trying to run you down and make you feel worse, please don't think that. But sometimes we need to write something then put aside and re-read it a couple of times before we actually send it

At this point your attachment to the puppy is more of a "dream" situation instead of real relationship with an animal in your house. I don't know what kind of deposit you paid for him, and I know that most breeders will not return a deposit. But if you weigh that against the cost of additional air fare, etc., you may find out that you would be better off with getting away from her and going with someone who is closer to your home. If I were in the situation you are in I would always harbor a bitterness in the back of my mind about what all I had gone through to get the puppy.

I know the disappointment you feel. And being so far away makes things even worse for you. I'm very sorry for that. But sometimes we have to put our emotional feelings aside (very hard for me to do!!) and be more logical about things.

My thoughts are with you that you (and the breeder) do the right thing for all involved.

Bruce H
20th February 2007, 07:28 PM
Wow, I just don't know what to think about this whole situation. Yes, it is very hard to let puppies go after raising them from a 6 ounce newborn, but we breeders suck it up and do what we agree to. I don't know if Barb noticed when she picked up her Star, but I was starting to get a little misty (so much for the stoic man!). Is this an experienced breeder? If so, she knows all about the attachments you get as a breeder and should be used to dealing with that.

I just keep getting these uneasy feelings that there's more to this than she's telling you. I thought the e-mail you sent her looked very good.

Shay
20th February 2007, 07:39 PM
How well did your FIL know this breeder? Hasn't she been a client for a while? I beleive you said in previous posts that you were getting the dog for free, perhaps she now wants to sell the dog???? None of this makes any sense. I've never heard of a reputable breeder doing something like this and even a BYB wants to sell the puppies. It just doesn't make sense. :?

Cicero's Mummy
20th February 2007, 07:55 PM
FIL has known her for awhile (only through vet care and her bringing the dogs into the clinic) This is NOT a question about our father in law... it is NOT his fault and he feels equally bad about having us go through all of this. They are out time and money as well in this situation. We never knew that she would mislead us, or that she had such trouble letting go of her pups. That is the sad thing... vets never 100% know about a breeder unless they have tried to purchase from him/her.

From his experience with her, he thought she was great (that opinion has changed now). Her dogs were always healthy and she was very good about keeping them clean and everything. We didn't even suspect anything when we were at the house really, it was a great situation (or so it seemed) and the house was clean, nice and everything. The pups were all in with the mother, the mother and pups were in the house. All the dogs were clean and the home didn't smell of "dog."

The puppy was not "free." Although it was "free" for us. We weren't having to pay the $2600 she charges because my fil said he would exchange vet care for a pup. Before you say anything bad... where they live is a very very small town and it is about 3 hours east and 6 hours west of a big city... so alot of bartering and trading is done in the town.

The misleadings have been seeping out of the cracks these last 2 days... we had no previous knowledge of the deceptions that have fallen on us. We just assumed when we went to her home the first time that the older puppies she still had were because it was hard to get someone to come all the way to where they are located... not because she has a hard time letting go!

Cicero's Mummy
20th February 2007, 07:57 PM
I wish you could have waited until you were a bit less hysterical before getting in touch with her. I'm not trying to run you down and make you feel worse, please don't think that. But sometimes we need to write something then put aside and re-read it a couple of times before we actually send it



I actually did wait until today and have re-read it about a hundred times from when I wrote it to when I sent it.

I wasn't hysterical, just very sad and weepy, kmwid!


As for going with someone else, I have already contacted a local breeder here in Ohio (whom I know is reliable from first hand experience and checking her references... we were going to use her before we found out about Cicero). She is full and up to speed on the situation. She even has us a pup picked out and "waiting" in the wings if we can't work things out with Cicero's breeder.

Charleen
20th February 2007, 08:04 PM
Raven - this whole thing with your breeder sounds very very odd. I am getting very bad vibes about her.

I would look closer to your home, where you can visit the breeder. I'll PM you with some really good ones in the OH and PA area.

Kodee
20th February 2007, 08:06 PM
There's something not quite right with that breeder, IMHO. This is bizarre That pretty much sums it up. There is no excuse that is valid to to justify so many false statements. I'm sorry but she doesnt sound quite stable, I mean literally mentally. But none of that helps you. At this point, my heart goes out to you 100x fold!

By the way, what does IMHO mean?

Edited: I remember before I had Kodee because I had pictures of her throughout her growth, that I wouldnot have wanted another puppy. I would be very torn, as I am sure you are at this point. Even though you dont have him, you still have that connection in your head. I might have waited it out, no matter how wrong it was or mad I was - but my realistic side would be arguing with me to find another breeder (it just would have lost though). Of course your FIL could not have forseen this. When I think of the many people I know from business or childrens friends parents - then you find out yrs later something that you never could have forseen. Naturally we all know our own vets dont know us well enough to know anything like this - ofcourse he couldnt have known! There is no one to blame except the breeder. I hope it works out, really, no one should have a cloud like this over getting a new puppy. (I thought your letter was fine by the way) Mine would have cut through her throat mindyou if I wrote it..)

Cicero's Mummy
20th February 2007, 08:07 PM
in my humble opinion

Cicero's Mummy
20th February 2007, 08:08 PM
See above post... but thank you for the thoughts.





As for going with someone else, I have already contacted a local breeder here in Ohio (whom I know is reliable from first hand experience and checking her references... we were going to use her before we found out about Cicero). She is full and up to speed on the situation. She even has us a pup picked out and "waiting" in the wings if we can't work things out with Cicero's breeder.

Crittercall
20th February 2007, 08:13 PM
Okay, I know what IMHO means - but what is "kmwid"?

I didn't mean to offend you if I implied that you hadn't put enough thought into the email you sent. The breeder here is definately off base and not being fair. I'm speaking from personal experience where I write something first and get everything out of my system then go back and "clean things up" to make them more palatable!! I know how nasty I can get on a first run through. You're fortunate that you don't do that!

And I definately understand bartering. My first vet bartered for any and everything from animal services to office equipment and back again. My daughter and SIL trade him snow removal services for vet care for their two dogs and it works out well for them.

Take some deep breaths, Raven. It'll all work out for the best in the end.

arasara
20th February 2007, 08:15 PM
IMHO means in my humble/honest opinion as far as I know :P

I feel so bad for you Raven - what a disappointment to have to go through all of this. I can't imagine the heartache that you must feel. And your father in law.. I feel awful for him - I hope he realizes that it's not his fault and that people can be very misleading sometimes. How many dogs does this lady own?? How long has she been breeding ?

Cicero's Mummy
20th February 2007, 08:23 PM
Okay, I know what IMHO means - but what is "kmwid"?

I didn't mean to offend you if I implied that you hadn't put enough thought into the email you sent. The breeder here is definitely off base and not being fair. I'm speaking from personal experience where I write something first and get everything out of my system then go back and "clean things up" to make them more palatable!! I know how nasty I can get on a first run through. You're fortunate that you don't do that!

And I definitely understand bartering. My first vet bartered for any and everything from animal services to office equipment and back again. My daughter and SIL trade him snow removal services for vet care for their two dogs and it works out well for them.

Take some deep breaths, Raven. It'll all work out for the best in the end.

Oh, I didn't mean you offened me... lol... I am trying to find some light-heartedness in this all... I jokingly put kmwid... "kick me when I'm down." I was actually agreeing with your post, and just wanted to let you know that I did exactly what your advice said... :) It was GREAT advice! Sorry for the miscommunication... sometimes the inflection in ones mind is not the same as the one in someones writing... :) :sl*p:

Shay
20th February 2007, 08:24 PM
I was not implying that it was your FIL fault in anyway. I was just wondering how well he knew this woman. I just can't understand a breeder doing something like this. It's just the strangest thing I have ever heard. What is she saying to your FIL about all of this? I wouldn't be able to face him if I were her. It sounds like she is a bit off. :?

Karlin
20th February 2007, 08:25 PM
I think the email you sent was fair and I'd wait for her response. That said...

Her prices sound OUTRAGEOUSLY high unless she sells top show dogs at those prices. That means, unless she is well known, has bred many champions, and her dogs are so highly desireable that she has people on waiting lists! It sounds like this is not the case.

Again, a LOT of red flags here. Are her dogs registered AKC/CKCSC? Is she a member in good standing of either the ACKCSC or CKCSC? If she is, I would be contacting them about this and filing a complaint. If she isn't, she is a backyard breeder charging phenomenal prices for her dogs. The fact that she is lying at times about puppy birthdates and fathers is also appalling. Did you see cardiac certs for the parents and grandparents? Does she list any of her dogs with OFA? Is she registering with the AKC/CKCSC or the trash registries?

I know of a couple of good breeders in Ohio who would be good to contact. One could tell you right away whether your breeder has any standing and if her prices are in the ballpark for the area.

This must be so terribly frustrating for you; I am sorry you are going through this.

pippa
20th February 2007, 08:26 PM
I hope it all works out for you . :flwr:

Kodee
20th February 2007, 08:34 PM
I would be contacting them about this and filing a complaint. I'd be filing the complaint even if it works out and she gives in this weekend. The torment she put you through and her "off" mentality should be reported. I am having trouble believing anyone breeding (who is not a first or second time litter producer) having this much trouble - unless they are quite unstable. In that case they should be reported because they can not be trusted to make responsible choices for the dogs or themselves. (why yes, I get a tad nasty in my thoughts when mad :yikes temper temper, I am a taurus)

Cicero's Mummy
20th February 2007, 08:39 PM
I think the email you sent was fair and I'd wait for her response. That said...

Again, a LOT of red flags here. Are her dogs registered AKC/CKCSC? Is she a member in good standing of either the ACKCSC or CKCSC? If she is, I would be contacting them about this and filing a complaint. If she isn't, she is a backyard breeder charging phenomenal prices for her dogs. The fact that she is lying at times about puppy birth dates and fathers is also appalling. Did you see cardiac certs for the parents and grandparents? Does she list any of her dogs with OFA? Is she registering with the AKC/CKCSC or the trash registries?


She does register the dogs AKC. I know this because the whole reason we were getting the dog was because while on vacation her daughter supposedly let the dogs all out at the same time (which she wasn't supposed to do) and one got attached to the female and produced a breeding. (goes to prove once is all it takes) The "father" we were told would be line breeding (and fairly close at that). Well, come to find out... she thought there was line breeding, but when the pups were born she knew it wasn't and then didn't tell us!! I found this out because someone I knew emailed her and asked her about the paternity of the dogs.

Anywho... we know for a fact (from others who have bought from her) that they have used the dogs as show dogs. Their pedigrees are decent and such. That is why my FIL thought it would be a good match. UGH... I am just so upset with this whole situation!

We didn't care if the dog was registered or not! We just wanted a great and loving pet!!

We know she isn't a BYB or "puppy mill." She just is a breeder that has gone "nutty!"

Cicero's Mummy
20th February 2007, 08:42 PM
I was not implying that it was your FIL fault in anyway. I was just wondering how well he knew this woman. I just can't understand a breeder doing something like this. It's just the strangest thing I have ever heard. What is she saying to your FIL about all of this? I wouldn't be able to face him if I were her. It sounds like she is a bit off. :?

Oh, I know shay... i wasn't saying you were... just stating that my fil feels bad about it as well.

She actually hasn't contacted my fil since yesterday about mid-day when they had thier conversation. My fil politely told her she could call anytime between now and Thursday when she changed her mind (fil thinks she is nutty too).

Crittercall
20th February 2007, 08:49 PM
I think you've probably "read" me enough to know that I try to find humor in the worst situations - that's the way I deal with stuff. I'd just never seen "kmwid" - but since I have I'll use it now!!

I'm with the others - there's just something not quite right about this whole thing. I wish that there was something I could do to help you take a break from it and get it off your mind somehow - just for a little while. Right now it's just consuming you and that isn't good for you. (And remember, I'm a do as I say, don't do as I do person :D )

Zippy
20th February 2007, 08:49 PM
This is the strangest thing I've ever heard, about doggies anyway!

Cicero's Mummy
20th February 2007, 08:55 PM
I'm with the others - there's just something not quite right about this whole thing. I wish that there was something I could do to help you take a break from it and get it off your mind somehow - just for a little while. Right now it's just consuming you and that isn't good for you. (And remember, I'm a do as I say, don't do as I do person :D )

I am about 2 seconds away from throwing in the towel and hopping on a plane to Florida for a much needed week, no make that MONTH of beaches and martinis (even though I don't drink anymore... :) ).

In all of this, my concern is still for my dh. He was as equally excited (if not more, i mean really what hubby isnt a 5 year old on the inside)... and for some reason thinks this is all his fault... (which it isn't) and to make matters worse is feeling really bad because he is working alot (this rotation is killer 3:30am to 6 or later in the pm) and doesn't have time to see me or help around the house.

Nancy
20th February 2007, 09:05 PM
I understand you are very upset, but sometimes stuff happens for the best. I was VERY disappointed on a 9 month old puppy I had made arrangements to get, he was getting too big to show, and after the breeder said she didn't want him back, she then decided she did because I fed raw, which wasn't even the case! I still cannot hear her name without being angry and in fact, had the opportunity to tell her that was me she did that to but she's the kind of person who never does anything wrong. Anyway....I got my loverboy Graham instead and he is one of a kind. Perhaps you can use the weather to convince her to send him....we have some nice mild weather right now, perfect for flying, where you never know what the future will bring. And if she's getting $2600 worth of Vet services, well that is as good as $2600 cash to her, which is an absurd price for a male, no matter where you live , for the best puppy and best breeders. You may be better off going locally , you can leverage that too in your next communication by saying you really need to acclimate your puppy during that time frame and will be forced to get one locally upon additional thought. I know a lot of midwest breeders if you want to PM me the name of hte Ohio breeder.

merlinsmum
20th February 2007, 09:10 PM
I feel for you both, you must be sooooo destroyed. I'm with the rest of the guys this women sound like she is a few sandwiches short of a picnic!!!! as we english would say

coconut
20th February 2007, 09:12 PM
raven i really feel for u, have u heard from the breeder yet?

Cicero's Mummy
20th February 2007, 09:15 PM
not yet... but it is only 1pm there.

I am not sure how often she checks her email either... so I may just have to call and re-say all of this tonight. :roll:

Shay
20th February 2007, 09:19 PM
Why not call her. Does she have a web site? You could get her number there.

Cicero's Mummy
20th February 2007, 09:24 PM
I'd like to talk to FIL first and see what he thinks about calling her. I just think it would be appropriate to wait until I can get some advice from him. Just so I don't say anything off-putting or something that might make her say never-mind about us bringing Cicero home.

All this is so exhausting... with everything else on my plate right now... I just didn't need this catastrophe! It would have been so nice, had it gone as planned... it wasn't like I wasn't already freaked out at the thought of him on a plane without me there!

Lisa_T
20th February 2007, 09:25 PM
*g* at Kirsty...

This is so awful for you.... BUT- since you *do* have contacts with a reputable breeder who you have accompanied to shows etc, I personally would let Cicero go and get the pup from the reputable breeder. As others have said, there's too many red flags.

There's also the fact that the pups' current health really doesn't mean much in the long run. Unless conditions were appalling- which wasn't the case- you'd expect the pups to be healthy, and as Karlin et al have pointed out more than once, it's virtually unheard of for Cav pups to show signs of SM or MVD at this very early age.

If the reputable breeder has cardiac clearances/MRI clearances or both, then honestly, I'd go with them. You're more likely to get a puppy who will be with you for many years to come. Also, if you can, if you haven't actually gotten confirmation re clear hearts etc from Cicero's breeder, and you want to stick with him, then run his pedigree past the clear heart lists online and check that out. Amber's breeder didn't given me cardiac clearances either- but they DO show in CKCS shows AND they gave me information about the health status of Amber's relatives for several generations; the rest I checked myself and was satisfied with.

I really feel for you and your family.

Cicero's Mummy
20th February 2007, 09:34 PM
Cicero's breeders dogs do have cardiac clearances/MRI clearances. The health and care his breeder gives is what made my fil think this would be totally okay to proceed with.

Like I have said, we are giving Cicero's breeder a chance, until Thursday that is, then going with the other breeder. I have already been on the phone with the other breeder today, and she agrees with me that I should give her a chance until Thursday.

Health and such are not problems here, they are all cleared (the parents that is)... the only problem with our breeder is that she is having such seperation anxiety. Well, that and the apparent misleadings we are now finding out.

But what do I know... according to two people... I am just plum crazy... :roll:

Claire L
20th February 2007, 09:38 PM
Hi Raven,
I would have to agree with Karlin and others here, you need to call this person and demand that she fullfill your verbal contract. Otherwise, you should inform her that she will have to pay for any Veterinary consults that have transpired so far as part of this agreement AND you should notify any organisation that she would use as a reference to her breeding qualifications etc. I would not take this lying down. It is not your fault or your hubbys or any other member of your family- it's HERS and sometimes you have to knock diplomacy onthe head and just demand a proper service. :x :x :x

:flwr: :hug:

casshon
20th February 2007, 09:42 PM
Raven - I'm so sorry you're going through this. I know that you already think of Cicero as your baby and I hope that this all works out for you :flwr:

Cicero's Mummy
20th February 2007, 09:47 PM
Hey all... I am headed home from work in about 15 mintues. I will be then making dinner and relaxing with some mind numbing television... simpsons and scrubs.

I don't think I will be posting again until I know something definate or new information to share.

Thanks to all those with kind words and encouragement... here and in pm's as well.

:*gh: Raven

*Pauline*
20th February 2007, 10:23 PM
As for going with someone else, I have already contacted a local breeder here in Ohio (whom I know is reliable from first hand experience and checking her references... we were going to use her before we found out about Cicero). She is full and up to speed on the situation. She even has us a pup picked out and "waiting" in the wings if we can't work things out with Cicero's breeder.

In this case, are you too attached to Cicerio now to go to the other breeder? Sound like you can trust the second breeder. Sorry if I've missed any comment you have made about this, I didn't have time to read everything. I don't like the sound of this breeder. Not just her letting him go later than you planned but all the dates and who the sire is etc.

Cicero is SO expensive, what's the price of the other breeders puppy? Is this the going rate for Cavaliers where you are? :yikes

Natalie
20th February 2007, 10:39 PM
I am so sorry that your going through this, i have never heard of anything like this happening there definetly something seriously wrong with this woman. It's so cruel to string you along like this and not give you any proper answers for when you can bring him home. I would personally try and look for another breeder you and your family don't deserve to be treated like this. Excellent choice watching scrubs never fails to cheer me up :p

Kdemars
20th February 2007, 11:26 PM
Gosh I'm sorry that you have to deal with this. I just hope everything works out for the best for you - whatever that may be. Your email was great by the way - I know how hard it can be to not just come out and say what you mean. I'm sure she appreciates not being called the lying and/or selfish b**ch she is. ;)
:flwr: :flwr: :flwr:

matties mum
20th February 2007, 11:27 PM
How far away are you from this person If it was me I would go and see her to see what can be sorted out with a little bit of luck to bring the pup home with you what every you do good luck I will be thinking of you ----Aileen and the gang (Jazzie---Barney---Sam)

Remali
20th February 2007, 11:29 PM
Oh Raven, I would be so upset and so furious too. Hang in there, I do hope that you still can get your sweet little Cicero! I think his breeder is acting ridiculous, but maybe things will still work out for you.

:flwr:

Charleen
20th February 2007, 11:57 PM
Aileen - Raven lives in Ohio and the breeder is in Utah. All the way across the country 2 time zones away. Raven's FIL lives in Utah and has been assisting Raven with this breeder in Utah.

enchantingdragon
21st February 2007, 12:31 AM
Hi Raven

Sorry Im late into this. Ive been busy at work and had a few medical appointments after work so Im just getting home. I dont have any advice more then what the board has already said. I know whats its like to fall in love with a picture and an idea and it hurts when it doesnt come true. I know the moment I saw Ellie I was in love and now that I have her here sitting on my lap as I type this I couldnt imagine a better Cavalier. I remember though how sad I was at the loss of my "puppy" even though the pup I was going to get is still not even born. I say wait till Thursday like you decided and then if it doesnt work out maybe its best to contact your other breeder and go from there. Best of luck to you and let us know what happens

kimberlya
21st February 2007, 01:19 AM
Thinking of you, Raven!!! Whichever furbaby comes to your home will be lucky to have such a loving family! :hug:

Caraline
21st February 2007, 01:51 AM
Just read this entire thread & my heart goes out to you Raven. You are a much more tolerant person than me. First time that breeder started pulling my chain I'd have been out of there in a flash. The whole situation sounds really suss and I wouldn't trust that woman as far as I could throw her.

If it were me I'd be looking for another breeder. But if you are hanging in there for the long haul then strength to you :flwr:

duncans_ma
21st February 2007, 01:55 AM
More positive thoughts from this end....I am sure you will make the rigth decision for you, your family and little Cicero...

Hey! I am vacationing in Colorado...want me to hop to Utah and steal the munchkin from the big bad breeder? :)

Then you could meet me in Florida for your month of sun and martini's with Cicero in tow

Kodee
21st February 2007, 03:12 AM
More positive thoughts from this end....I am sure you will make the rigth decision for you, your family and little Cicero...

Hey! I am vacationing in Colorado...want me to hop to Utah and steal the munchkin from the big bad breeder? :)

Then you could meet me in Florida for your month of sun and martini's with Cicero in tow
I see the makings of a movie in your flying off to steal Cicero and the two of you lounging on a patio with tall, cool drinks and Cicero in a puppia with sunglasses!

WoodHaven
21st February 2007, 03:15 AM
Oh my-- it is a bit like thelma and louise--lol

Kodee
21st February 2007, 03:57 AM
Oh my-- it is a bit like thelma and louise--lol Ha! Thankyou! I was trying to remember that when I typed it but just couldnt think past Susan Saradon's name! I loved that movie.

laurenlyn1
21st February 2007, 05:51 AM
raven, you're getting a lot of love and advice from everyone here. we are all here for you with our thoughts. i would be totally upset if i had everything all planned out. it wouldn't be so bad if i lived near the breeder and didn't have to fly to pick up the new baby, but i would still be totally upset. you're expecting to get you're little man on a certain date that has already been agreed on and to just go and change it at the last moment is nuts.

good luck. i hope you're able to contact her. and i sure hope she's not a member of the board!

Cicero's Mummy
21st February 2007, 04:48 PM
http://www.whateverlife.com/letters//23/u.gifhttp://www.whateverlife.com/letters//23/p.gifhttp://www.whateverlife.com/letters//23/d.gifhttp://www.whateverlife.com/letters//23/a.gifhttp://www.whateverlife.com/letters//23/t.gifhttp://www.whateverlife.com/letters//23/e.gif


Cicero WILL be coming home this weekend. After my email, she realized it was the best situation for all involved. She didn't know how hard we worked to prepare and such!!

WHEW! Let's just say... next cavie... I am coming to you all to ask about breeders... Karlin... you will be the first one I pm when we get our second!!


Thanks to all of you... kind words or not... for putting in your two cents!! It was great to know that everyone was pulling in to help us on this!!

Kodee
21st February 2007, 04:51 PM
wow, what a relief! I am so happy this diaster is over for you. What a nightmare. I still think a complaint should be filed - the woman has no right breeding with such issues over letting go. It is so unfair to people - look at the emotional roller coaster you were on - the next person does not deserve this! She should at least be honest with people and say she often opts to keep them to 16 wks and wont make that final say till its closer to 6,8 or 12 wks. Then people are at least prepared if the opt to go ahead and use her. I hope she reads what i wrote...I'm opinionated like that icon_whistling

Edited by Karlin.

Cicero's Mummy
21st February 2007, 04:54 PM
More positive thoughts from this end....I am sure you will make the rigth decision for you, your family and little Cicero...

Hey! I am vacationing in Colorado...want me to hop to Utah and steal the munchkin from the big bad breeder? :)

Then you could meet me in Florida for your month of sun and martini's with Cicero in tow
I see the makings of a movie in your flying off to steal Cicero and the two of you lounging on a patio with tall, cool drinks and Cicero in a puppia with sunglasses!

Oh... how I wish!!

enchantingdragon
21st February 2007, 05:19 PM
YAY Raven!!! Im so happy that your baby boy is finally coming home with you!!! Im sure it was quite a stressful few days but at least now it was all worth it and this Saturday youll have him in your arms at last!! Did you ever figure out the thing with his age? Is he 10 weeks or 12 weeks?

Chelle & Rex
21st February 2007, 05:19 PM
:w**h**: Brilliant news, I bet your counting down the minutes!

Natalie
21st February 2007, 05:22 PM
Raven i am so happy for you i have been checking this thread throughout the day to see what's been happening. Not long now till you can hold your baby. :p

Vickie
21st February 2007, 05:24 PM
Raven, thats fantastic news, I've been logging on in the day to see if you had anymore news :flwr:

I'm so pleased that she finally understood that you had made so many preparations to let little Cicero into your home as smoothly as possible.

Can't wait to hear about your final preparations and of course the pictures when he is finally at home with you where he belongs :flwr:

Lani
21st February 2007, 05:44 PM
I am so relieved for you Raven!! My eyes are even getting a little misty ...

I can't wait to see pics of your baby when he finally makes his way home!! :drivecar:

Cathy T
21st February 2007, 06:02 PM
Hooray!!!

Linda
21st February 2007, 06:10 PM
Phew what a relief Raven, I am sure you are feeling bettter emotionally today. But I still agree she should never of done that to you. :( :(


So what time is the wee fellow arriving in your hands on Saturday. :huh:

Karlin
21st February 2007, 06:55 PM
Delighted you will be getting him and this is resolved. I certainly would not go back to that breeder and only hope they actually did any of the health testing that is necessary to ensure you get a puppy with the best chance of a long and pain-free life.

Regarding polls and poll results:

I believe the phrasing of options in this poll was meant somewhat tongue in cheek. And people are entitled to reply as they wish if they are given those options by the person who created the poll. It does not mean anyone can make assumptions about whether people are heartless as the choices offered indicated this was never a serious poll to start with, though the issues raised in the thread were.

:thmbsup:

Cicero's Mummy
21st February 2007, 06:56 PM
If there is a spot on a flight on Friday, we are going to have him come home then, because I have the day off... if not then on Saturday.

I will keep you all posted... I may be kinda sparatic these next few days, but I will try and post as often as I can. Well, tonight it will be off to get dog food and finalizing the plans with my inlaws!

Cicero's Mummy
21st February 2007, 06:59 PM
yes, I inteded for the poll to be a light-hearted relief to my stress...

Note the eye roll after my... I am just plum crazy comment... most of the time I am intend most of my comments with a "joking" intent...

plus... who isn't crazy when it comes to thier cavie baby.... :P

Denise G.
21st February 2007, 07:03 PM
Woo-hoo, Raven!! Great news--post pics asap!

judy
21st February 2007, 07:18 PM
cl*p Yayyyyy cicero! Im so glad you're getting Cicero. He's your boy!!

wow, i just read this whole thread at once! what a painful and suspenseful drama.

One thing this situation cried out for, a moral of the story, for me, is that a puppy buyer and breeder need to develop a close trusting relationship, like a friendship, with open ongoing communication. A problem here was not being able to ask the breeder about her seemingly erratic choices, or to hear her own explanation of the changing dates of birth--the whole thing sounds very suspicious, like a backyard breeder, yet your fil knows her and is sure she isn't, presumably he has her board certified health checks in her records--so then you keep coming back to having no explanation other than her separation anxiety, which she is acting out in a most inconsiderate and irresponsible way. But this would ideally be something a puppy buyer and breeder would be friendly enough to talk together about. As soon as she got your email, she did the right thing. It sounds like she was reassured by and appreciated the arrangements you had made, as well as understanding and caring about your plight, should Cicero not come now. If your theory is right, that it was all a matter of separation anxiety, then she is softheared, meaning someone in your position could probably appeal to her soft hearted nature and get her support.

I think the arrangement you had with her, where her own trusted vet is making all the arrangements, was a great one, and until this happened, i wouldn't have thought it would've been that big of a problem that you yourself weren't in communication with her. But the whole thing did get taken care of once you made a personal contact with her. About the other concerns, especially changing facts about the litters and DOBs, it sounds suspicious and worrisome. But without direct communication, there's no way to ask her how that all happened. Maybe it would seem different if you had been talking with her all along and she was telling you day by day what was happening.

Or maybe not. I'm not saying don't make a complaint about her. I was appalled reading through this thread--a mature adult would not ruin peoples' work related plans, adults arranging their obligations and responsibilities around the important event of a puppy coming to a new home--to disregard that was was enough to make all of us and you think the unthinkable, giving up cicero and going elsewhere. But then she did do the right thing when you contacted her, and said she didn't know about your pre-arrangements. Maybe your fil told her but something got lost in the translation. Certainly fil was not to blame. Maybe no one was to blame but there was a lot of misunderstanding and miscommunication, and a lack of a relationship between puppy mom and breeder. If it were to be something more like what i'm suggesting (just speculating, obviously you know more about this than i do) then you might still have a good future relationship with her, not that you would get a puppy from her again, but you would have the valuable resource of ongoing communication with cicero's breeder so that you could learn immediately of any health issues that came up with the parents or grandparents or litter mates, and just the fun of being able to ask how the litter mates are doing, and to see photos of them or the mom.

anyway, i'm so glad cicero is coming home, i'm in love with his photo and his name and even more than ever now, this is such a special beginning.
good luck with the rest of the initiation process, and beyond.
:flwr:

one other thing--if you would have gotten cicero in two week, he still would've had plenty of puppy left in him, for a long long time to come. i got zack at about 15 weeks and he was just a little bouncy happy curious affectionate guy and what struck me so much was how everything was new to him, it was all happening for the first time, and he was completely dependent on me, to show him the world, to teach him things, to reassure him, he knew nothing, weather was new to him, sounds were new to him, cars were new to him, the backyard was new to him, it just goes on and on.

When you get a new puppy, they are leaving the only world they know and going to a completely strange place, not an easy thing, and they are quite vulnerable and are so dependent on you, you would've had no worries about bonding. People who get older puppy and adult dogs find this too, unless a dog is badly traumatized, they want to bond strongly, they are such social animals. But i'm glad you are getting cicero now, mostly because of all your plans. If you'd had to wait two more weeks, it still would've been just as wonderful when the time came, they are babies. :d*g:

*Pauline*
21st February 2007, 07:50 PM
one other thing--if you would have gotten cicero in two week, he still would've had plenty of puppy left in him, for a long long time to come.

I second this view. Dylan was a little quiet at first and now he's what you would expect of a puppy. I had problems getting Dylan home as my son was getting baptised the week Dylan was old enough to bring home. The next collection date was arranged, but my friends car broke down, she was going to drive me there. In the end my lovely breeder brought Dylan to my door!

The extra time at the breeders meant Dylan had more time with puppies, dogs, children and visitors which is good for his socialisation. I saw him every week or fortnight for the whole day since he was 10 days old. I know how you can bond and it's very hard to be away form them.

Happy for you now. Get some sleep, you'll need it!

coconut
21st February 2007, 08:15 PM
SOOOOOOOO happy for u!!! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :flwr: :flwr: :flwr: :flwr: :flwr:

Kodee
21st February 2007, 08:46 PM
[quote="Kodee"]wow, what a relief! I am so happy this diaster is over for you. What a nightmare. I still think a complaint should be filed - the woman has no right breeding with such issues over letting go. It is so unfair to people - look at the emotional roller coaster you were on - the next person does not deserve this! She should at least be honest with people and say she often opts to keep them to 16 wks and wont make that final say till its closer to 6,8 or 12 wks. Then people are at least prepared if the opt to go ahead and use her. I hope she reads what i wrote...I'm opinionated like that icon_whistling

Edit: To the 9% out there...


Edited by Karlin to say: Actually, no you don't add what you wish on a board I run. If you have problems with that, let me know by PM.

Cicero's Mummy
21st February 2007, 08:54 PM
http://www.whateverlife.com/letters//23/u.gifhttp://www.whateverlife.com/letters//23/p.gifhttp://www.whateverlife.com/letters//23/d.gifhttp://www.whateverlife.com/letters//23/a.gifhttp://www.whateverlife.com/letters//23/t.gifhttp://www.whateverlife.com/letters//23/e.gif


Just talked to MIL and she is getting on the phone this afternoon to make arrangements.

Will let you know more as it unfolds...

LauraD
21st February 2007, 09:35 PM
OMG Raven, I just read this whole thread and I am so happy that you will be getting Cicero this weekend! I can't believe what you have been through. :yikes I'm sure when he is in your arms and you are on your way home, all will feel much better. :flwr: We all want to hear from you when you have him home and with you and hubby. :D

KimNIndy
21st February 2007, 11:19 PM
oh thank god :D :D :D

raven the thought of you having to give up cicero 'dream relationship' or not just made me sick to my stomach so i can't even imagine how you must have been feeling this week!

i'm so happy for the three of you!

k

Coco's mom
22nd February 2007, 12:19 AM
Raven, I am so happy to hear that you are getting Cicero! b*n*n* That is GREAT NEWS!!! :D I have been following this thread closely. I was so upset to read last night that you may have to give up this puppy that you already consider yours. I know how much trouble I would have doing that after visiting Coco every week at the breeders since she was 10 days old. I can't believe how dishonest the breeder has been and how selfishly she was acting! Thank goodness she came to her senses and is allowing you to have him when she promised.

I agree with the others that you should file a complaint about the breeder.

Sally
22nd February 2007, 01:05 AM
Wow...I just read this whole thread and was getting more and more frustrated and then...good news!! Phew!

I'm so glad it's all falling into place. It was really a selfish and crappy thing to spring on you...thankfully she seems to see the error of her ways...at least this time.

We'll just keep fingers and paws crossed that it all works out and this weekend you'll have your little Cicero home and in your arms!!!

Charleen
22nd February 2007, 01:10 AM
Raven, I pray that there are no more surprises for you in your odyssey to get your cavalier puppy home.

Karlin
22nd February 2007, 01:53 AM
Kodee I have edited your posts. If you wish to discuss further, PM me please.

I think the thread as it currently stands has run its course and is getting overly long, so I will close it and let Raven start a new one for any new discussion of her pup's arrival (I am sure there will be a few :lol:). :thmbsup: