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View Full Version : Puppias--Be very, very careful!!!!



Denise G.
7th March 2007, 02:18 AM
I just had a nightmare experience! I was walking Wrigley and Mia and stopped for a couple of little boys who wanted to pet the dogs. As usual, Mia stayed behind my legs, as she is afraid of children. One of the boys starting running over to pet Mia, she got spooked and wiggled out of her Puppia! She ran across two lanes of traffic, across a greenbelt and another two lanes of traffic with me screaming like a mad woman and running with Wrigley to catch her. Thank God traffic wasn't bad and the couple of cars that were coming saw her and stopped even though it was dusk and it wasn't easy to see anything. She ran straight to my house and stopped to wait on us to get there.

I had heard that the latch on the leash could come loose and test it before we go on our walks each day. Didn't know it was possible for them to wiggle out of the harness--geez!!! The harness is not loose and is pretty snug on Mia.

Please be careful if you walk your dogs in a Puppia. It took me 30 minutes to stop shaking and hugging Mia.

I'm at a loss--do the people at Puppia know about this danger? This is a HUGE flaw in their design.

Zippy
7th March 2007, 02:24 AM
What a fright!!

Very glad that everything turned out alright!

Mary Alice can also get out of her harness, not a puppia but a seat-belt harness.

She only tries to get out in the car! :roll:

I think if they're frightened enough, they get a boost of adrenaline or something. Really! :flwr: :flwr:

Shay
7th March 2007, 02:41 AM
Oh God Denise.....I am shaking just reading your post. That was too close for comfort. I had no idea the latch had a problem. I just ordered 2 more puppias for Lily today. The one we have is getting frayed, as I leave it on her most of the time. Her leg has slipped out while she has been playing in the house, but never while on her leash. How did she get out of it???

Denise G.
7th March 2007, 02:49 AM
When the little boy made a sudden move to pet her, she freaked out and started trying to get away and somehow wiggled out of it--it happened so fast I didn't see exactly how she managed it. I was trying to head off the little boy and get between her and him but she just lost it anyway.

I wonder if the Puppia people know about this flaw. I realize it's possible to get out of any harness, but this seemed way too easy for her.

Thanks, Shay and Zippy. I'm so relieved she's o.k., too.

natalieandmike
7th March 2007, 02:53 AM
First off, Denise I am SO glad that Mia is OK. That is quite a fright. I remember reading something about Puppias coming loose, but I thought it was mainly at the 'puppy' stage, when they're a bit big on the dog and the pups are wriggling all around. I wonder if others have had any sort of similar experience. . thanks for posting and good to know...so glad she's oK...and you are too!-Natalie

Caraline
7th March 2007, 03:01 AM
Gee, thank the gods that didn't end the way it could have. Thanks for the warning. I figured a puppy could get out of a loose one, but hadn't realised they could get out of a well fitting snug one. Will be extra careful after this.

Shay
7th March 2007, 03:26 AM
Yes Denise...Thanks so much for posting this. Someone had posted about the puppia leashes not being safe, but never about the harness. I will definitely be very careful. Lily wild stand up and walk on her hind legs in the darn thing while I am trying to pull her back sometimes. I am always afraid the hook is going to give way. I am so glad you had a happy ending. So scary!!!!!!

Kodee
7th March 2007, 03:35 AM
Wow, your heart must have just stopped! Actually, I can see this happening with them. The fabric does stretch a lot when you put it over their head. I have had my dog slip from a collar in a similar fashion - if they start to back up its hard. But I would have thought in your case with the puppia the other band would have held her. She must have been so scared first by the kids and then getting loose and the traffic.

My Wesley
7th March 2007, 03:47 AM
Wesley was able to do this as a tiny pup in his small Puppia. Even if I had it tight around his chest. He has yet to do it in his medium size, as he's much more used to being on the leash. But it has always concerned me since you can't tighten the neck part. All they have to do is wiggle out of the chest area. Dogs bones are so pliable that I think that's how they do it.

KingstonsMom
7th March 2007, 04:11 AM
That was a close call! I'm so glad that Mia wasn't hurt. I wonder if maybe Mia's puppia just isn't tight enough? I must say, I think it's a great harness, and I've never had any problems with it.

Harvey's Mum
7th March 2007, 08:16 AM
Hi

What a scare, i didn't realise they could get out of them, I have just bought one for Harvey, I shall not be using it now after reading this, I am so pleased Mia and yourself are ok.

Anna (Mum of Harvey)

casshon
7th March 2007, 08:33 AM
So glad Mia is OK - that must have been very scary.

My Molly is an expert escape artist - she has gotten out of her crate before as well as her puppia. I think she just wriggles like crazy. Once I found the puppia lying in the bottom of her crate and another time she got out of her puppia when she was buckled to her sealt belt.

Bella has a dear dog harness and I have never had this problem. The large DD harness is just that bit too small for Molly - I wish they did an XL.

matties mum
7th March 2007, 08:57 AM
Barney manage to get out of his when 2 dogs set on him so I am very careful ----Aileen and the gang ( Jazzie---Barney----Sam)

Battie4
7th March 2007, 11:00 AM
this might be a little off topic but is there a size of the puppia harness that can fit the CKCS as a puppy and an adult? Or if I buy one for my puppy will I have to buy another one as he grows bigger?

Lynn
7th March 2007, 11:34 AM
OMG I am so glad that Mia is OK!!! It is a total SHOCK that she was able to get out of her Puppia like that!!!!!! Just once Max got his front leg through the neck hole and that freaked me a little. I think if I went through what you did I'd probably not sleep for days.

I do notice that the fabric stretches a lot. I wonder if there is a way to make a security 'strap' or tie to loop into their regular collars from the puppia for double protection??? My pups wear their normal collars all the time even when wearing their Puppias.

Thank you so much for bringing this issue to our attention. :flwr:

Maxxs_Mummy
7th March 2007, 01:32 PM
Realy glad that Mia and you are both OK. Please don't shout at me but I don't think this is actually a fault with the Puppia, I think it's more that some Cavaliers can literally get out of anything.

Charlie hasn't managed to get out of his Puppia yet but has managed to get out of two other different walking harnesses and also his car harness - all of which were done up very snugly on him.

I think, from watching Charlie and also my friend's little Cav that they seem to inhale and pull in their chests and can then move their shoulder blades in a way that will release anything from around their chests or middles. Then of course, the rest will just slide over their heads :roll:

It is however, really scary when it happens and especially if like Mia did, your dog bolts and makes a run for it - at least Charlie will just stand there and give me this 'Huh stick that!' look :roll: Maxx would have bolted and as he's 75% deaf, he wouldn't have heard me calling him.

I am just glad that Mia is safe :flwr:

Denise G.
7th March 2007, 02:53 PM
Realy glad that Mia and you are both OK. Please don't shout at me but I don't think this is actually a fault with the Puppia, I think it's more that some Cavaliers can literally get out of anything.

I understand what you mean, if a dog is an escape artist I suppose no harness is 100% safe. But it seems like the design should be changed so that the front leg holes are not quite so spacious. I think it would still serve the same purpose of not pulling on their necks and would still be comfortable. Or maybe they should add an additional safety strap that attaches to the dog's collar for double protection. Something definitely needs to be changed in the design--it was just TOO easy for her to get out of.

I just don't want this to happen to anyone else. We were SO lucky that Mia wasn't hurt and also that I didn't break my neck trying to get to her. Wrigley thought it was a game and was running full speed to catch up to Mia all while pulling me like a rag doll across the street and greenbelt. I'm sure it was quite comical to watch--I laugh when I think about how it must have looked now...and of course I was screaming at the top of my lungs to get her attention. Sheesh!

Lindsay
7th March 2007, 03:08 PM
Denise, so glad she is safe! You are right, when they put their mind to it they can get out of anything! I think you have to find the particular harness that is right for your particular dog. My 2 adults are built totally different and the Puppias do not fit them the same. I hope you never have to go through that again! :hug: :flwr:

Kodee
7th March 2007, 03:19 PM
this might be a little off topic but is there a size of the puppia harness that can fit the CKCS as a puppy and an adult? Or if I buy one for my puppy will I have to buy another one as he grows bigger?Small fits most puppies and med seems to be the average cav adult. Although larger cavs on this site do wear the Large.

Daisy's Mom
7th March 2007, 04:14 PM
I know most people here love the Puppia harnesses, but I have to admit, I threw mine away this weekend! I bought one when Daisy was a small puppy, and she broke out of it 3 times on walks. If she twists just the right way, the black plastic clasp comes unhooked and she is gone.

I put it on her last week for the first time in several months just to see if it was a fit problem that would be OK now that she is full-grown. I put it on her and then tested the clasp by pulling on it at an angle. Sure enough, it popped right open! So I just threw it away. I don't know if that is a common problem or if I happened to get an especially ill-fitting clasp, but as I HATE dealing with complaints and returns, I just threw it away and decided not to mess with it. I bought it from the NY Dog Shop online in July or August, so it's probaby too late anyway. Puppia needs to do some improvements with their quality control. I like the design of the harness, but the implementation was lacking in our particular one.

Laura&Lia
7th March 2007, 04:17 PM
What a nightmare. I'm glad Mia is OK.
Thanks for the warning!! :flwr:

duncans_ma
7th March 2007, 04:47 PM
Both of my pups wear a collar and a puppia. I know that some here don't use a collar but I have found that because the puppia sits behind the collar (and I have to physically make sure the collar goes through the puppia) they would have to get their collar and head through the neck of the harness to get out of it. All of that said, I have determined that even of the clasp comes undone which I am very careful to watch for, our harnesses aren't easy to slip out of.

About the clasp...it is my understanding that breakaway clasps like on the puppia and many collars are used because many pet owners, etc were finding their dogs caught in bushes, brambles, fences etc and despite their wiggling to get out couldn't because their collar was stuck. The break away clasps are designed to open under enough stress to prevent the injury or death of a dog in a bad situation.

I am so glad that your sweet baby is ok...it must have been so scary.

Denise G.
7th March 2007, 05:10 PM
Ashley--how do you make the collar go through the Puppia--I'm trying to visualize it, but can't.

duncans_ma
7th March 2007, 05:44 PM
Sorry I was typing/thinking fast. When I put the puppia over Duncan's head his collar is stuck under the puppia so I have to us my hands to make sure the puppia goes over the collar and sits behind it. Duncan has a pretty big 3/4 inch collar which I use intentionally because it creates this barrier making it very hard for him to back his head through the harness....does that make sense? I can take a pic tonight if you like.

Lisa_T
7th March 2007, 06:40 PM
I can understand your situation- I am becoming dissatisfied with the standard puppias for this reason because Holly has been able to wriggle out of hers also. thankfully not in such a dangerous area but still. More worryingly, I find the clasp often slips. I now prefer the jacket style harness which to my mind is much safer- clasps at back, also velcro, and there are two rings to which the lead can be attached. I clip the lead onto both rings and I defy any dog to wriggle out of it! The only catch is that there is less versatility in sizing- if your dog gets bigger or puts on weight it can outgrow the jacket style harness very quickly.

Ginger's Mom
7th March 2007, 07:22 PM
Thanks for the info.. OMG how horrifying this must have been for you.. I'm so glad you both are okay.. I have been thinking about buying a Puppia harness but always had this iffy thought in my mind about its safety. I know there must be tons of satisfied Puppia users out there but I'm too scared to use it now on Ginger. :(

BELLE'S MUMMY
7th March 2007, 07:27 PM
Hi Denise glad your baby is ok. I have also had this problem and it is really scary!!

It was one of the first experiences I had walking Belle in the big park next to our house, as we were walking along there were a family walking their 2 dogs, they came over to have a sniff/chat Belle was that scared she started to pulled backwards and cowered to the floor and pulled out of her harness :yikes
When she pulled away she carried on walking backwards and nearly fell down the edge of the park (where there is s huge waterfall) if it wasn't for my mum being with me and grabbing her just in time I dread to think!! I just burst into tears on the spot...
Every time she gets scared on walks now I always get that memory..
Just be careful everyone

xx

Denise G.
7th March 2007, 07:55 PM
Ashley, that would be great if you could take a picture. Though, I think I know what you're saying. Since the collar lies in front of the Puppia neck opening, it's harder for the pup to get his/her head through the Puppia neck opening--is that right? Thanks for the suggestion, I might give that a try in a few months when I'm over the scare... :roll:

Thanks Ginger's Mom and Theresa. Theresa, that must have been awfully scarey watching your pup back toward a waterfall--oh my gosh, that makes me cringe thinking of it. I'm glad your mum was with you and save the day.

I didn't mean to scare anyone away from trying a Puppia--but on the other hand, I would hate to hear of this happening to someone else with horrible consequences.

Just wanted to warn everyone to be careful--knowledge is power, as they say... :)

Shay
7th March 2007, 09:03 PM
These stories are really scaring me now, and I just orderd Lily 2 new puppias yesterday. Although this has never happened to me outside, and I have not had a problem with the clasp, she has gotten her leg through the armhole in the house a couple of times. Can anyone who has never had a problem with their harness tell us what you use and where you purchased it please. I may send these puppias back when I get them.

:thnku:

duncans_ma
7th March 2007, 09:13 PM
Yes, Denise, that is what I mean...I will try and get a pic tonight.

Denise G.
7th March 2007, 09:24 PM
I know Shay--like I said we might use the Puppia in a controlled environment like a park or some such place, but I just won't use it on our daily walks because we walk along some moderately busy streets where we meet up with kids/people pretty often.

I really feel like writing the folks at Puppia to let them know about the problem, if they don't already know. Or at least to make some suggestions to make the harness safer.

I wonder who that might be--anyone know? I'll have to research it...

Denise G.
7th March 2007, 09:26 PM
Yes, Denise, that is what I mean...I will try and get a pic tonight.

Thanks, Ashley. No problem if you can't get the picture. I think I know what you're saying...but would still like to see if you get a chance.

Caraline
8th March 2007, 12:35 AM
I noticed on a dog obedience show (that one with Madam Lash :lol: ) that sometimes when a harness is used, a collar is also used and the leash has two ends to it.... one attached to the harness & one to the collar.

I am thinking this might be a safe approach to the Puppia problem. You'd have the piece going to the Puppia shorter than the one going to the collar, so any pressure would be applied to the Puppia, not the collar. But if the dog did get out of the harness, then the lead would still be attached to a collar, that hopefully would still be in place.

Just a thought. I'm going to experiment.

Shay
8th March 2007, 12:49 AM
That makes sense Caraline....It would be like the extra peice that comes with the retractable leashes. Is that what you are talking about????

Mom_of_2_Cavies
8th March 2007, 03:12 AM
Denise, that must have been just a horribly upsetting experience. I can well imagine how upset you must have been--and still are.

My two Cavs each have a medium puppia, but Milly weighs a couple of pounds less than Pepper and the Puppia is definitely a little looser on her--it's much easier for me to get it off. I can't see Pepper wiggling out of his--it's too snug--though I don't think it's uncomfortably snug. I do make sure that their regular collars are out in front of the Puppia rather than tucked back underneath it, and especially on Pepper, taking it off means a bit of effort to push the collar back underneath first. They both wear rolled leather collars, which add a bit of a ridge as opposed to the flat nylon type.

Milly has never pulled out of her Puppia completely, but one time in the house I did find her with her leg out of the clasp side--I think it was after she'd come out of her crate where she'd been sleeping. I wasn't sure if she'd done it herself or if maybe it hadn't been put on her properly in the first place.

Over the years I have saved several of those safety collars that come with the retractable leashes (never have used 'em!) and I think that it might make for a good experiment to see if it would work to use one with the Puppia and regular collar. But I also really like the idea of using one of those leash doublers, with a longer end attached to the regular collar. Great idea!

Caraline
8th March 2007, 03:31 AM
That makes sense Caraline....It would be like the extra peice that comes with the retractable leashes. Is that what you are talking about????

I haven't seen this kind of retractable leash. Ours just comes with one regular clip on the end. I was considering cutting up a second leash & stitching a small section to the bottom of an existing one. At the moment I am not using the Puppia's for walking. Our older dog was shown by his breeders & he walks well with a collar. The puppy is yet to be road-tested. So I'm just using Puppias in the car, so no big deal if they wriggle free, but certainly after reading all this I'd be very reluctant to walk my dogs in one without some sort of backup system.

frecklesmom
8th March 2007, 05:11 AM
I have not tried this but have been thinking about how to do it. Some place I read that a fellow was talking about harnesses and said he never completely trusted a harness. He would clip to the collar and weave the leash thru the ring on the harness in a way that he had both harness and collar connected to the leash. His dog was controlled by the harness but the collar was also connected for safety backup.

merlinsmum
8th March 2007, 01:09 PM
First off - Thank Goodness Mia is okay.

My boys both have large puppias and they haven't tried to wriggle out of them. I do check the leads though all the time as I think Karlin posted something about the lead strength a while back.

However despite never getting out of the puppia, the mountain goat aka Merlin can get out of his car harness which to me is probably too tight on him - but leave him for 5 mins in the car and whoosh! its off and he's on the front seat looking at you :lol:

As long as your moving he's fine......

Denise G.
8th March 2007, 03:02 PM
I noticed on a dog obedience show (that one with Madam Lash :lol: ) that sometimes when a harness is used, a collar is also used and the leash has two ends to it.... one attached to the harness & one to the collar.

I am thinking this might be a safe approach to the Puppia problem. You'd have the piece going to the Puppia shorter than the one going to the collar, so any pressure would be applied to the Puppia, not the collar. But if the dog did get out of the harness, then the lead would still be attached to a collar, that hopefully would still be in place.

Just a thought. I'm going to experiment.

That's exactly the kind of leash I think Puppia should make for their harnesses! I wish there was something like it on the market now. Be sure and let us know how your experiment goes.

frecklesmom
8th March 2007, 07:32 PM
This site in UK has safety straps for harness to collar connection. Scroll down the page-don't know why it says "cat" on the url. Have to think other sites have them but haven't hit on the right wording.

www.culpeppers.co.uk/catalogue/?cat=collars

Harvey's Mum
8th March 2007, 07:48 PM
I have added a part of an old leash to the puppia leash now, so that i can clip it to his collar for double protection. I have sown it on the fishing line for extra strength, took some doing but at least i feel alot better using it now, and it works really well so far.

Anna (Mum of Harvey)

Shay
9th March 2007, 12:06 AM
Thanks for the suggestions!!!!!!

Caraline
9th March 2007, 12:27 AM
This site in UK has safety straps for harness to collar connection. Scroll down the page-don't know why it says "cat" on the url. Have to think other sites have them but haven't hit on the right wording.

www.culpeppers.co.uk/catalogue/?cat=collars

Oh that is perfect, and much better than what I had in mind. How simple too. They'd be easy to make. Those clips on the ends are very easy to purchase.

Denise G.
9th March 2007, 03:22 PM
I wonder if they sell these in the U.S.--anybody know?

I'll start Googling...

Kodee
9th March 2007, 03:29 PM
I wonder if they sell these in the U.S.--anybody know?

I'll start Googling...
Actually if you look at it, you could make one yourself. Cut an old leash, buy an extra clip and take it to a shoemaker. He can sew the extra on with an industrial sewing machine for little cost. Plus you'd have the advantage of it being customed sized!

Denise G.
9th March 2007, 04:01 PM
I wonder if they sell these in the U.S.--anybody know?

I'll start Googling...
Actually if you look at it, you could make one yourself. Cut an old leash, buy an extra clip and take it to a shoemaker. He can sew the extra on with an industrial sewing machine for little cost. Plus you'd have the advantage of it being customed sized!

That's a good idea--Lord knows I have some old leashes. May be a dumb question, but where to you get an extra clip?

In the course of Googling to find a safety leash, I came across a great sale on pet crate mats. :roll: Mia has one of these and they're really nice and easy to wash--only I paid almost $60 for hers. The same mat is on sale for $35.00. I grabbed the X-large for Wrigley because I'm sick and tired of taking off and putting on the cover of his foam crate mat to wash it--what a royal pain!!!

http://www.suburbandoghouse.com/dog_clearence_products_s/14.htm

It's dangerous when I Google...

Harvey's Mum
9th March 2007, 08:17 PM
Hi Denise

I have just attached an old lead of Harveys to his puppia lead and it seems to work fine. I cut the bottom part of the lead off with the clip on it and attached to the puppia lead. Now if the puppia comes undone or the puppia lead comes free it is all still attached to his collar and, it still works as a harness as the attached lead is slightly loose between the collar and the puppia, therefore not pulling on the collar. Hope this helps!!

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/160/415795056_bd07ed472a.jpg

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/148/415795059_e6b65b1ee1.jpg

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/168/415795057_16cd924c6a.jpg

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/173/415795061_62d93a3205.jpg

Kodee
9th March 2007, 08:25 PM
I have just attached an old lead of Harveys to his puppia lead and it seems to work fine. I cut the bottom part of the lead off with the clip on it and attached to the puppia lead. Now if the puppia comes undone or the puppia lead comes free it is all still attached to his collar and, it still works as a harness as the attached lead is slightly loose between the collar and the puppia, therefore not pulling on the collar. Hope this helps!!

That is way better than the double hooked idea!! Oh thank you for posting that! They wear them 10x a wk with no problem but there is always that possibility that what happened to Denise can happen to anyone. I am going to go to the shoemaker and fix my leash this weekend! Thanks again for taking the time to post the pictures - I didnt follow that was how you did it from reading!! You know if puppia was smart or someone, they would register that design and market it for harness owners....hmm thoughts spiraling here..

Denise G.
9th March 2007, 09:01 PM
Hi Denise

I have just attached an old lead of Harveys to his puppia lead and it seems to work fine. I cut the bottom part of the lead off with the clip on it and attached to the puppia lead. Now if the puppia comes undone or the puppia lead comes free it is all still attached to his collar and, it still works as a harness as the attached lead is slightly loose between the collar and the puppia, therefore not pulling on the collar. Hope this helps!!


Oh, that's a great idea--the pictures really help!! Thank you so much for taking pictures. I think you need to patent that little design and sell it to Puppia--they could use it for sure! :) I'll be making a trip to the cobbler, too...

By the way, can you tell me how the leash segment is that you attached?

Thanks again!

Kodee
9th March 2007, 09:06 PM
Hi Denise

I have just attached an old lead of Harveys to his puppia lead and it seems to work fine. I cut the bottom part of the lead off with the clip on it and attached to the puppia lead. Now if the puppia comes undone or the puppia lead comes free it is all still attached to his collar and, it still works as a harness as the attached lead is slightly loose between the collar and the puppia, therefore not pulling on the collar. Hope this helps!!


Oh, that's a great idea--the pictures really help!! Thank you so much for taking pictures. I think you need to patent that little design and sell it to Puppia--they could use it for sure! :) I'll be making a trip to the cobbler, too...

By the way, can you tell me how the leash segment is that you attached?

Thanks again!

Not just Puppia - market it to any harness! After reading this, I started looking about on the internet with searches on harnesses coming off trying to find a make that worked better. I found a lot of harnesses do this and many breed forums talk about dogs wriggling out of them.

Denise G.
9th March 2007, 09:12 PM
You're right Debbie--it could be/is a problem with any harness. I've been searching off and on all day and haven't found anything like this.

Harvey's Mum--I meant to ask in my last post if you could measure the length of the leash segment you attached to the Puppia lead.

Thanks so much!

Harvey's Mum
9th March 2007, 09:38 PM
Hi Denise

I am so pleased you like the idea, all i want is for our babies to be safe.

With this design you get double protection., 1. from wriggling out of the puppia and 2. if the lead catch ever broke you have a back up.

From the top of the joining lead to the end of the catch is 8 inches. All I did was put the puppia and lead on Harvey and then put i lead on his collar, then i pulled the puppia lead back as if i was correcting Harvey and then i pulled the other lead to the puppia lead, leaving a bit of slack so that the puppia lead was the main lead, then i cut it and sew it on to the puppia lead just above the fold next to the catch . It is very easy and can be done on a normal sewing machine.

I think i better get a patent for this and sell the idea to puppia :rotfl:

Anna (Mum of Harvey)

Shay
9th March 2007, 09:45 PM
Hi Anna....Great idea and design. This absolutely looks like it will solve the problem. Thanks for posting this. BTW, every time I see your Avatar, I think, now wait a minute, I didn't post anything. :lol:

Harvey's Mum
9th March 2007, 09:52 PM
Hi Shay

Yes the pictures are very alike, I also mistake your avatar for Harvey. They could be twins if they didnt live so far apart.

Pleased you like the puppia lead. I wasn't going to use mine again when i read about Mia, but i thought there must be away round it and it is so simple really.

Anna (Mum of Harvey)

Denise G.
9th March 2007, 09:57 PM
8 inches--got it! Thanks again Anna--you're a lifesaver...literally! :)

Harvey's Mum
9th March 2007, 10:11 PM
Hi Denise

I would suggest that you measure Mia's lead to be attached according to her puppia. Harvey is only 6 months old and if Mia is older she may need a slightly longer attachment.

If you put both leads on and then pull the puppia one back as far as it will go and then pull the collar lead (leaving it slightly slack), towards the puppia lead, just above the fold next to the catch and then mark it with a pen (dont forget to add a little extra for the hem) before cutting it.

Anna (Mum of Harvey)

Denise G.
9th March 2007, 10:15 PM
O.K., Anna, I'll make sure to measure using Mia's Puppia. You're right, the measurements could be different.

Cathy T
9th March 2007, 10:56 PM
Ana - get a patent for that thing!!! I swear if you started selling them here you'd make a mint!

Denise - googling is dangerous to your pocketbook! Don't I know it. I have to totally restrain myself from the shopping forum.

One thing I do for my crate mats is put a king size pillow case over them. Then you can just pull off the pillowcase, replace it and toss the old one in the wash. I hated trying to take those dang covers off and try to get them back on again.

Denise G.
9th March 2007, 11:12 PM
One thing I do for my crate mats is put a king size pillow case over them. Then you can just pull off the pillowcase, replace it and toss the old one in the wash. I hated trying to take those dang covers off and try to get them back on again.

That's a great idea, Cathy. I don't think a king sized pillow case would fit Wrigley's crate pad, though--it's 48" long. Are king cases that long? I'd like to do something like that with the plush pad I just ordered for him. I don't want to wash the actual crate pad very often if I can avoid it. If I had a sewing machine, I suppose I could make an oversized "pillow case" from a sheet for his crate pad though---hmmmmm. icon_nwunsure

Lucy's mum
10th March 2007, 04:07 PM
I have used a halti-link to attach puppia to collar (or lead to collar)for safety when mine were pups. It is designed for the exact purpose of secondary security. Halti say dogs may be able to back out of a Halti headcollar, pulling it over their head just as with a slack conventional collar. This link attaches the Halti to the D ring of a conventional collar. So I just used it in similar way for the Puppia.

This cost about a £1, I think, from Pets At Home. It consists of 3" of 1/2 " webbing, with a 2" loop as extra on one end, and a dog clip on the other end. This can be used to link the puppia ring to a collar ring, or could go from the lead to the collar as a secondary attachment. You just thread the dog clip end through the loop to attach one end, and then use the dog clip at the other end. Obviously it would be possible to interlock two of them loop to loop if you needed greater length.

Another good use for the halti-link is to attach my dog whistle to my bag then it's always there with easy access. I find they react so very well to a dog whistle so are now trained to recall with that.

Here's Henry demonstrating.....
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/133/416502925_bc13fc4400.jpg

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/129/416561133_71a732e28c.jpg

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/123/416561145_e512759c4f.jpg

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/126/416561139_097fbf6528.jpg

Kodee
10th March 2007, 04:39 PM
Thank goodness for your last picture! I was looking at this and for the life of me thought where does she put the looped part!! Please it's Sat and I am on wk 11 and round 5 of new antibotics - brain fog here :lol: This works too very well. These poor puppies will look suited up in combat gear but I think its still good. I like the puppia because she is calmer in it for moments I need her to be, obedience class, vets, very busy public places. Has anyone else noticed that? The puppia in my mind acts very much like a halti (I used one on my excitable lab). That is why I dont use the puppia all the time - it does have a slight submissive effect on them like I noticed with the halti and gentle leader.

danalynn
10th March 2007, 04:42 PM
Lucy -
Did you get the size small or large for the extension? I'm only finding them on the web in the UK, but it is worth the security. Thanks to everyone for finding solutions. We just got our first puppia and although we've only used it for puppy classes, I'd like to use it for walks as well.

Lucy's mum
10th March 2007, 05:11 PM
Danalynn........

I got the small size halti link I'm fairly sure. It's ever such a useful little clip.

Kodee....I've gone back and edited the pictures - lightened them up a bit to make it clearer. Hope that helps. ;)

Kodee
10th March 2007, 05:35 PM
Danalynn........

I got the small size halti link I'm fairly sure. It's ever such a useful little clip.

Kodee....I've gone back and edited the pictures - lightened them up a bit to make it clearer. Hope that helps. ;)Oh no you misunderstood! I meant your last picture DID really help - its was great and showed me how it was done! Sorry I made you think otherwise and you edited them, but thank you! But let's get down to the important stuff - I really like the fabric on your chair!! It would go well in my living room :lol:

Lucy's mum
10th March 2007, 06:41 PM
That's my bedroom stool!!!

It's what Lucy uses to climb up onto the windowsill to survey the world. Can't understand how it's still cream...not mud-coloured. icon_whistling

Henry slithers about on the windowsill and gets scared so he won't get up there. :yikes

Denise G.
11th March 2007, 01:31 AM
Annie, what a great idea--and I actually already have one of those clips/straps. I've been using it as a seat belt restraint for Mia when we drive to the park. I slip the seat belt through the loop and fasten the clip to her harness.

Thanks so much for the pictures!

We've got some really innovative gals on this board! :)

frecklesmom
11th March 2007, 01:39 AM
Found similar product to Halti Link under leash tabs. One company

http://www.bridgeportequipment.com

Cathy T
11th March 2007, 01:52 AM
Those look like they'd be perfect!

merlinsmum
11th March 2007, 12:34 PM
I have used a halti-link to attach puppia to collar (or lead to collar)for safety when mine were pups. It is designed for the exact purpose of secondary security. Halti say dogs may be able to back out of a Halti headcollar, pulling it over their head just as with a slack conventional collar. This link attaches the Halti to the D ring of a conventional collar. So I just used it in similar way for the Puppia.

This cost about a £1, I think, from Pets At Home. It consists of 3" of 1/2 " webbing, with a 2" loop as extra on one end, and a dog clip on the other end. This can be used to link the puppia ring to a collar ring, or could go from the lead to the collar as a secondary attachment. You just thread the dog clip end through the loop to attach one end, and then use the dog clip at the other end. Obviously it would be possible to interlock two of them loop to loop if you needed greater length.

Another good use for the halti-link is to attach my dog whistle to my bag then it's always there with easy access. I find they react so very well to a dog whistle so are now trained to recall with that.

Here's Henry demonstrating.....
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/133/416502925_bc13fc4400.jpg

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/129/416561133_71a732e28c.jpg

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/123/416561145_e512759c4f.jpg

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/126/416561139_097fbf6528.jpg

Thanks's Lucy's mum - thats very useful...... I'm off to Pets at Home this afternoon :D

BELLE'S MUMMY
11th March 2007, 04:18 PM
Thanks Lucy's Mum.

Will also be going to Pets @ Home

xx

sallymum
12th March 2007, 10:42 AM
Just seen this thread. I have had these harnesses for my lot as well. Of the three, two of the clips oon them have broke. I am now using a harness that they step into. the harness also has a collar attached to it.

frecklesmom
12th March 2007, 05:15 PM
Another US site that has a compatible product is

http://www.cleanrun.com

They are called Bungee Leash Handle-red,blue,black. I talked to them re: size and they said they are as long as a regular leash handle :roll: I measured all my leashes and decided to order. I would love to use an old leash and accomplish the same but sewing skills are nil. We have some mega shoe repair shops that are terrific but long wait. Small repair shops are not around. With plastic clip failure on the puppias I've also decided that buckle collars are my path of safety.

Karlin
12th March 2007, 06:14 PM
I have found a determined dog can wriggle out of almost most harnesses except the jacket type (I have a Puppia of this type) when puppy size because of their shape. I've never had a problem with adult dogs and a well fitting Puppia should not be a problem (not that it is any consolation but in my experience I know of far more stories of dogs slipping their collars (again, especially puppies) -- people tend to put collars way too tight or too loose on their dogs; good to check with a vet as to the right level of looseness). Some dogs have small heads and the collar if fitting comfortably on the neck will slide over the head if the dog pulls backwards -- this is the case with a friend's two collie mixes and therefore they keep the dogs in harnesses for walking as a safety measure. They have never slipped a harness.

A bigger problem as far as I am concerned is that the Puppia leash clasps break -- the knob swivel part can slip right out of the end of the lead. I have had this happen with THREE leads with dogs not putting any particular strain on the lead; it is more the angle the clasp gets into. I have many other far cheaper leads that I've used on all sizes of dogs, many of them larger breed rescues in the past, that have lasted well for four years. All the Puppia leads broke within 6 months to a year.

Personally I do not like putting anything that potentially pulls on a cavalier neck so if anyone is using a second connector to the collar make sure there is plenty of slack.

KingstonsMom
15th March 2007, 06:35 PM
Kingston was taking a nap yesterday and somehow his left leg wormed its way through the neck part of his Puppia harness. I thought I'd never get it off of him!

Nickynoodles
2nd October 2007, 01:59 PM
Just read this:( What a shock - poor you, I just thank god Mia was okay!!

Jen
2nd October 2007, 03:07 PM
I'm really glad Mia is alright, that must have been so scary for all of you! Good for her for knowing her way home, too!!

After reading this thread, I have a few concerns--one being the fact that she is so terrified of childern. I'm not sure if you've worked with her on this fear or not, but I can say from personal experience that it really paid off for us to work with Abbey's fear of children through counter-conditioning and desensitization...the scary thing can't be that scary if it has something good. Rather than trying to escape the situation, which often leads to them putting themselves in danger (especially in Mia's case), when kids ask to pet Abbey, I instead ask if they'd like to give her a treat....I've learned to carry treats everywhere I go with her. Kids are usually pretty excited by this suggestion, and will stand there and give her treat after treat...not knowing that it's actually helping her! We learned this tool from our trainer, and it really has changed Abbey's life--she's not in fear anymore when she sees kids. I'm sure people are sick of hearing this reply from me, but it really has changed our lives!

The other concern I have is the coupler or tether to the Puppia as this puts pressure on their necks...which is what you're trying to avoid by using the Puppia in the first place. I think I would opt for making sure it's fitting properly or going with another harness that you feel fits better...although, a frightened dog has two insticts--fight or flight, and nothing can stop them when they are in that mode...which is why it's so important to help her deal with her fears, teach her some tools to do so. Teach her how to desensitize via something yummy...treats!

OlliePupInNYC
17th October 2007, 12:36 AM
This happened to me as well. My puppia fits my pup Oliver quite snugly and I always bring him to lunch and dinner when restaurants have out-door seating on sidewalks. One night we were at our favorite eatery (right on 7th ave in manhattan....one of the busiest) and waiter/security who stands and watches the patrons to see if they need anything suddenly said "I think your dog got out of his harness". Sure enough (and I was petting him and looking at him not 60 seconds earlier) there he was, under the next table, making friends with a little terrier, sitting as calm as could be. I was so lucky his little puppy brain didn't think to dash into the street. But I was furious at puppia. Now I bring a collar and hook him up to that when he accompanies me to eat.

*Pauline*
17th October 2007, 10:02 AM
Glad this has been bumped up, I never have or would buy a Puppia :eek: The catches break too. Why take the chance, just for fashions sake? icon_whistling

Caraline
17th October 2007, 11:42 AM
I got caught up in the Puppia craze too when we first got our Cavaliers, but I've dumped the lot of them now. Beau always seemed to be able to get out of his, plus the clips snapped. I also found that if they got a bit damp they seemed to stretch & then were near on useless.

As my guys don't pull, I've just gone back to regular collars & leads for walks.

Karlin
17th October 2007, 12:23 PM
Keep in mind that all dogs are built differently and that also, some are probably using harnesses on too loose a setting -- they should be snug but not tight. I've used most harnesses and styles on the market at this point because of my SM dogs, and prefer Puppias to almost anything else except front clipping walking harnesses (which the boys regularly use) -- I've used a variety of Puppias with no problems almost daily for four years and that's all I use with Lily. The clasps on the old leads would break; there are different clasps on them now. But I don't use their leads anyway; I walk my three on a triple lead. I have Puppias that are nearly four years old and have been thru the washer many times.

There are very few harnesses that a dog cannot slip out of and I've seen many slip collars as well -- but with two dogs with SM, I will not walk any of them on a collar alone and have something tugging at their necks. They don't seem to be able to get out of the jacket Puppias or double strap harnesses but most others, a deteremined dog can slip out of (Lily who is wriggly, has escaped from most!).

Most of the time I see people using Puppias that are very big for their dog -- so they are really loose over the head and also really loose around the dog where they clip behind their arms. This makes them very easy to back out of if the dog tries to reverse.

Most of the harnesses available in pet shops were where I have had problems. The figure 8 ones can slowly tighten around the neck so I don;t advise those. Many of the others are really easy to slip from. I really like the Puppias because they have been very reliable and are soft on the dogs.

I'll just note again that a couple of neurologists feel walking cavaliers, any cavalier, on a collar may encourage or worsen the formation of syrinxes (SM) even in dogs with none, given the very high incidence of SM in the breed and the skull malformation (over 90% of CKCS hve the malformation) that seems to cause syrinx formation. So it is important to if possible find a harness people are happy with and avoid walking on a collar unless you have an SM dog that is more comfortable on a collar than a harness. Some are too sensitive on the body for a harness but it it usually the other way around. If your dog routinely scratches on walks on a collar then definitely switch to a harness. :thmbsup:

I've found puppies because of body shape and inclination to wriggle about and reverse out of harnesses, can squirm out of just about any harness on the market. The only one I would fully trust with a puppy is the Puppia jacket style as these are very secure.

Debby with a Y
17th October 2007, 12:35 PM
I agree with Karlin that it needs to fit correctly. Some people may buy the next size up, thinking their dog will grow into it and they don't want to waste money on a smaller one for puppyhood. I figured they are only $20 and when he outgrows it I'll simply buy the next size up. I haven't even had Barkley (and his Puppia) for two weeks yet, but his fits him really nicely and I have more fear that he might back out of and slip out of a collar. I don't want to hurt his wee neck.

Celticharmony
17th October 2007, 01:48 PM
What a frightening experience for you and can well understand why you were shaking! I recall when we bought our first Cavi and asked the Vets advice with regard to the suitability of harness/collar. He did advise on a good leather collar making sure when fastening it to just leave enough room for two fingers to fit between neck and collar. This has always served me well...up to now. Also he did say that although a harness may look cute, most dogs don't find them comfortable and will use any chance to be clear of it. Also, he mentioned that because Cavaliers have very warm coats, they feel uncomfortable in any form of cover and will try to be free of it. I guess that there would be a justification in snow or very cold temperatures. This is only one person's opinion and no doubt there will be those who will have much to say in favour of the harness. Anyway, as long as a dog is safe and secure that is the priority for all of us.

Cathryn
17th October 2007, 11:12 PM
Speaking purely as a breeder/exhibitor here,

The breeder side of me says, Yeah!! they're great as there is so little pressure on their necks, they also look wonderfully unusual, I have been stopped frequently and asked what type of harnesses they are.

The exhibitor in me says, NO WAY will I put a potential show dog in one of those harnesses! Conformation is paramount as too is movement, I recently put a potential show puppy in a Puppia, great! He pulled slightly less, and he looked cool in it! BUT!! As a puppy grows upwards his muscle tone does not always develop at the same rate, they can start to throw their front legs wider as a result of slack muscle tone, the Puppia being cut the way that it is, I found in this case actually accentuated this, my show potential puppy was throwing his front legs even wider because of the harness. Once I took him out of the harness and went back to my usual training method, he stopped pulling so much, also his front end tightened up a lot after some regular road exercise.

In future I will stick to my personnal tried and trusted methods, I am open to new ways and methods and in this particular case I thought I had found something really good, sadly it didn't work for me, but who knows might work well for some-one else??


Just my own findings and opinions!!

Holly
21st October 2007, 02:32 AM
I dislike these harnesses for this very reason...something like this happened to me the first time I used one! I have never understood why people rave about them! I tried it again the other day and had to turn around and come back because I just dont feel like they are secure for walking purposes!

Holly
21st October 2007, 02:36 AM
I got Oliver the harness that is good for walking dogs who tend to pull--I cant remember the name of it at the moment E-Z Walk maybe??---and I feel like that is very secure on him.

avejo
13th October 2008, 03:50 AM
Hi - sorry to revive this thread after so long, but I wanted to see if there have been any updates/improvements to the Puppia leads/harnesses. Our little lady (who is a 6yo) loves her harness and is not a squirmer, so I don't worry about her wriggling free. After reading the above, I'm now more concerned about the clasps on both the harness and lead not being safe. Have any improvements been made to Puppia products in the last year? Our lead/harness are about 2 months old. Thanks for any advice!

Cathy Moon
13th October 2008, 04:23 AM
I have medium size puppia harnesses for my three cavaliers, and there is no way they could squirm out of them because the fit is so perfect. I have not had a problem with the clasps on the puppia harnesses.

I do not use puppia leads, however; because we've had two members whose puppia leads failed. I have no idea if any improvements were made.

Instead, I use Lupine leads, which are guaranteed for life.

asherotter31
13th October 2008, 05:01 AM
I also have mediums for for mine and they fit great. However if we are going somewhere super exciting I use a Susan Lanci velcro harness - even as a squirmy puppy he couldn't break out of those.

I love the puppias for everyday walks though!

-leah-
13th October 2008, 04:41 PM
I highly reccommend the the roadie harness, not only is it the only crash-tested car harness but it doubles up as a general harness for walks. I admit it is more time-consuming to put on then your regular harness as it has no openings but the fact that it has no openings makes it so secure for your little houdinis!

www.ruffrider.com

http://www.dogtrainingireland.ie/shop/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=232

Lancelot
13th October 2008, 05:30 PM
For my dogs I have bought a harness in the "Norwegian-form". It is very lightweight and soft. It seems comfortable to wear, my dogs love it.


Look here: http://www.jokke.com/index.php?52&prodgroup_parent_id=31&productgroup=31121&product_id=662 (http://www.jokke.com/index.php?52&prodgroup_parent_id=31&productgroup=31121&product_id=662)

Here they are :razz:

http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/2055/dscn0498zg8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/7277/dscn0543nc4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Happy Cavalier Owner
13th October 2008, 05:58 PM
I use the puppia harness and I have noticed that if LeRoux gets scared of something or someone she will pull on the puppia:dogwlk: and I feel like she will at times pull right out of it. I just have to be on my guard at all times




Darlene and LeRoux

Lisa_T
13th October 2008, 10:53 PM
Just to echo what Karlin said - the jacket harnesses are the best as far as wriggle-proof goes. Amber has in fact outgrown hers ... she could still get into it, but I rarely use it unless it's freezing in which case I think she's thankful for the extra heat it generates! Otherwise she just wears a normal medium harness and she adores it - no fear of her wriggling out of the thing, she loves it too much. Holly wears the gentle leader which Amber DID manage to wriggle out of ... Puppias seem to make Holly uncomfortable after a while, I find she's much happier in the gentle leader harness. and as she's a sedate little miss I don't worry about her backing out of it. I have it on in such a way that the more she pulls on it the tighter it goes around her - not near the neck at all - and that seems to give extra security.

edel
17th January 2009, 02:24 PM
I remember posting about the problem with the leash a few years ago. The latch completely fell apart in the middle of a walk and Lady just shot off. We were walking near a busy road at the time and my heart nearly stopped. I was just lucky that she came back to me. Anyway I wrote to the puppia people about this and they said that they had never heard of such an incident before and it was very unfortunate and that they would replace it immediately. Well needless to say I no longer had confidence in the leash so now I use a strong one that I bought locally. It was just not worth the risk and I urge everyone to either buy yourselves a strong leash or keep a keen eye out for the puppia leash. I was just lucky.

Aileen
17th January 2009, 05:03 PM
Thank heavens she is OK
My Barney when he was younger manage to get out of is when 2 staffies had a go at him so I donnot use it now
---Aileen and the gang (Barney---Jazzie---Jake)

CavyMom
17th January 2009, 05:26 PM
I use puppias with both cavs, and one of my IGs who can slip a nylon strap harness in 10 seconds flat and never had a problem, but I'm not surprised a spooked dog could excape them. I'm paranoid when it comes to that - I always keep a collar on my dogs to hold ID tags, what I do just as a safety measure is make a short lightweight leash out of a couple clips and a length of parachute cord and attach that to the harness and the dog's collar - that way if something goes wrong like they slip the harness, the buckle on the harness breaks, etc there's still the backup of the collar so I can get the dog back under control before it darts into traffic!!! I've never used Puppia's leashes, and after hearing what people are saying, I never will!!!!

Joshua
17th January 2009, 08:36 PM
I love the puppia harness and the puppia jacket. I bought Josh a small and it was large as a tiny pup, but now it fits nicely. I do as some others here by making sure we pull his leash through, which seems to help prevent Josh from easily slipping the harness. Josh enjoys putting it on, but dislikes the ritual of pulling it off as we have the move his collar through first, and then do the pulling over his ears which he finds unpleasant.

The only problem that has a few time's occured when he was smaller, was having his front leg slip through.

We also rotate out and use the step in harnesses by 'Up Country'. These are easier for Josh as he dislikes the removal of anything over his ears, thus the puppia jacket he seems to like as well but is mostly too warm for our California warm climate. The 'Up Country' harnesses are easy to use, made of quality material and great designs, however I am not sure if they are as comfortable on Joshie compared to the soft Puppia fabric.

This has been my experience as a newbie and I am going to much more careful in the future to ensure Josh doesn't slip his harness.