View Full Version : Bathtime tantrum

9th March 2007, 07:31 PM
Ellie is now 15 weeks old, and I love her to bits, but she is by far the most difficult pup to handle that I have ever had. and I really am at my wits end as how to handle her :( I have put other posts on about her and have been grateful for the advise I have been given.
Ellie is independent, doesn't like being fussed or cuddled, but her behaivour is beginning to worry me a lot.
She HATES being brushed so i dont brush her often, but today I took her to the park and she rolled in somthing nasty and I had to bring her home and bath her. I have stood her in the sink before and washed her feet, but today I had to give her a proper bath. Brushing her after she was dry was a nightmare, she was really biting at me. I confess in the end I did give her a good tap on the nose and really gave her a firm NO, but it just made her worse. All my other dogs have been good natured , and they always knew that I was the boss and I have never smacked a dog.
But I am very worried that Ellie is going to be a biter and I really dont know how to deal with her.........Am I worrying for nothing as she is only 15 weeks old??? She gets LOTS of praise for being a good girl but how do I deal with the growling and nipping........
Has anyone else had problems with their puppy?

Joanne M
9th March 2007, 07:56 PM
First let me say, I do not have much experience with bathing Tucker. The groomer bathes him. I have bathed him only a couple of times, and have also had to bathe the back end of him a few more if anything gets stuck in that area. Tucker has an extremely heavy coat, it's thick and fine at the same time. Unless I brush him often, he is prone to mats. Actually he gets them anyway, however, they are much worse if I do not brush him several times a week. Every single grooming advice I have read stresses the importance of brushing/combing before bathing. I do not know if Ellie's nipping at you has anything to do with her being in pain when you are trying to work a knot/mat out. Tucker sometimes runs when he sees me carrying the grooming kit. He's not thrilled with it, I'm relieved he's never shown any sign of aggression. Though I rarely give advice because I'm NO EXPERT, I don't think a hit on the nose will help relieve Ellie's anxiety that she may have associated with her bath. I can feel your frustration from here, and I'm sorry for that, because I know you want to do what is best for your cavalier or you would never come to a site like this for advice. Please know that there is support for you here. I am sure you will get some advice, but it might be helpful if you can be a bit more specific, as to exactly what is happening when Ellie nips at you. I wouldn't let Tucker bite me either, I'm lucky that it has never been an issue.

I look forward to the responses of others, as every time someone has a question, we all learn a little something. Good luck, and cheer up, it will get better.

9th March 2007, 07:57 PM
Have you had her in classes yet? Puppies at this age do nip, bite alot. The explaination I got in class was, they communicate with their mouths and they see humans communicating with our hands (pat, feed, brush, pickup). It starts as their way of wanting to communicate through play. They need to understand that their teeth can not touch you skin. We were told of numerous ways from the 1st step yelping, to a loud no bite, distraction and other things. 15 wks is a good time to start classes.

As for bath, I havent given Kodee one yet! I am not looking forward to it either as I heard from our breeder the other 3 pups were fine, but Kodee threw a complete fit! I did read that standing in bathwater can be scary, that a gentle shower with a sink attachment sometimes works better. As well I read, smearing peanut butter or cheeze whiz on the side of the tub, can keep them busy while you do a quick wash and rinse. It was also suggested to smear on the side of the fridge for the first few groomings to get them used to being brushed. I do all of kodees eye wiping etc.. usually at night when she is just waking up from a long sleep beside me on the couch. Then she will let me touch all her feet, ears, roll her on her tummy for a rub - but forget any of that if I attempted it in the day when she is playful.

9th March 2007, 09:24 PM
Ellie is starting in classes on the 20 of April, that is the earliest I could get.
The actual bathing wasnt too bad, it was when I brushed her that she got angry. She didnt have any knots, it was just a matter of a gentle brush to smooth her coat . I am getting frustrated because a firm NO has no effect on her when she grabs at me. Nor does OUCH etc: I dont want things to get out of hand with her. What I am doing now has always worked with all my other dogs, and I cant seem to find a way of letting her know that No means NO...... :sl*p: I feel really stupid.
Basicially I am worried that she is going to get worse, and I cant control her.....
I have seen her MUm and Dad and they are lovely natured dogs......
All advise very welcome please for my Ellie.

Harry & Heidi's mom
9th March 2007, 09:38 PM
i was advised when i got Harry that if he nipped, growled etc at me or the children, to pin him to the floor!, gently but firmly for a few seconds and a firm NO to show him who is boss then walk away as this is how dogs interact in the wild.
worked for us Harry only bit me once

9th March 2007, 10:14 PM
Don't give up! :flwr:

Faith is the exact same age is Ellie - I gotta tell you - HANG in there!!@ Right now she's teething like CRAZY. Keep ice cubes, chilly bones, frozen wetted washclothes in front of her at ALL times. Her gums most likely hurt right now a LOT and she's trying to soothe herself. When she touches you with her teeth say "OUCH!" and ignore her until she gives up the behavior. If you play tug and she touches you with her teeth - stop playing when she bites you. It will only take a couple of times - serious.. Faith does not touch us with her teeth anymore and let me tell you - she's also the headstrong stubborn difficult type!

As for bathing - I know it might sound stupid but have you thought about bathing with her?? I take mine into the shower with me and plop them under the water and do it that way.. It's soooo much easier!!

Good luck :flwr:

Cathy T
9th March 2007, 11:00 PM
My guys easily tolerate the bath. But....I picked them up from the groomer on Wed and the gal who bathes them commented that Jake tried to bite her :yikes I was appalled...until I found out it was while she was trying to blow dry his ears. They have one of those super powerful blow driers and he just doesn't like it. I told her....don't dry his ears then, it's not important! I also caught her pulling him by his front legs trying to get his harness on and explained that Cavaliers in general DO NOT like being picked up or moved by pulling on their front legs. I then called my groomer and we had a very nice chat about what had happened. It won't be happening again!! I absolutely, totally, 100% trust and love my groomer....her assistant just needed a little direction.

9th March 2007, 11:33 PM
the only hassle alfie gave me was grooming,but everyday i would brush for maybe 10 secs. then after he got a choclate drop,then i just built the brushing time up over a period of time.i also only bathed in the sink with just a tiny drop of water as the bath can look big ,i would just wet his feet and then i got further up his body.it took at least 4 months but i had never had growling or bites he just would be scared of being handled hes great now though.but i had the only the one dog to worry over it must be hard having to worry over more dogs and time consumming if she is being stubborn.

10th March 2007, 12:35 AM
I am really sorry to be blunt but the tap on the nose comment has made me feel it is necessary.

Ellie is a clean slate right now due to her age and life experiences (she isnt a rescue is she ?) she is looking to learn in all new ways. When she feels uneasy about a situation to the point where she nips or bites it is in my opinion for one of 2 reasons, 1) she is unsure and using her mouth to communicate and tell you she doesn't like it as this is what puppies do. or 2) you are going about it all the wrong way. It sounds like you need to keep things calm (yourself included), consistent and most of all positive.
This statement here :

She HATES being brushed so i dont brush her often

is prime example, if she hates being brushed you have to work really hard with positive reinforcement to help her to feel happier about the process as she has to be brushed, not give up and not do it. She may never like it but will learn she needs to cooperate but only with positive learning not a tap on the nose.

There is a need to be firm especially with a pup but it should never involve physical or negative punishment.

If you feel you are doing things correctly and the biting and growling are excessive to pup behaviour, have her assessed by the vet and make sure she is in no pain, if that does not work consult a professional or go to a training class as earlier suggested and then you can learn what to do. I had exactly the same thing with Harry when he was little, he all of a sudden did not like being handled whether it be for a cuddle or a brush and prior to this he was quite good. I later found that his allergies were so bad his skin and body would have been sore and sensitive to touch.
Look at every little aspect, the brush your using, the environment, the shampoo, the water temp, her footing does she feel safe and comfortable or unsteady and so on. There are so many things to look at and try before you blame the dog and their personality.

Also look at yourself, does she trust you and have faith maybe you need to work on that. Everytime you interact do things start and finish nicely or with her being yelled at or you feeling frustrated which she will sense.
I am speaking from experience I had never owned a pet before the twins and have made many many terrible mistakes but the most valuable thing I learnt was I can't blame them it is me that either sets them up to fail or succeed by the way I deal with things.

Have to say also don't really agree with this approach either to me it falls into physical punishment, but again it is only opinion though I think you will find most folks here agree:

i was advised when i got Harry that if he nipped, growled etc at me or the children, to pin him to the floor!, gently but firmly for a few seconds and a firm NO to show him who is boss then walk away as this is how dogs interact in the wild.
worked for us Harry only bit me once

I hope you don't take this wrong, this is my way of helping by being out right honest. I realise its only my opinion and it doesn't make it right but really wanted to share in the hope it may shift your thinking. :flwr:

10th March 2007, 12:54 AM
Casey also really hated being brushed when he was a young pup just around Ellie's age. He would try and bite and pull away. I put away the brush. I went to stroking him many times a day with my hand, with lots of praise and afterwards a treat. Then after a few days I started using a very wide tooth comb and just working on a few areas. Again, lots of treats and praise. We slowly worked up to full brushing and grooming. It takes a little while but I think it makes it a really positive experience for you and your dog. Now he loves being brushed!

Here's a good article on puppy biting by Ian Dunbar: http://www.jersey.net/~mountaindog/berner1/bitestop.htm

And here's one on training grooming:

Hope that helps. Be patient. If you can, do alittle bit every day. She's going to calm down and be fine.

10th March 2007, 05:24 AM
Do you practice any submission exercises with Ellie? I was always taught to hold puppies in my arms, on their backs (like you would a baby) and if it starts to struggle just say "No" then have them stay that way until they are still. I think part of your problem may not know that you are the boss!

My 4-year-old shihtzu turned her head like she was going to nip at me and I had her on her back in a heartbeat. She didn't struggle but she sure did "talk" - not growl, not whine, just making noise. I told her she could make all the noise she wanted to but she wasn't getting up until she shut up. (Yeah, I know, like she understood me!) She also hates to be brushed - which is why she doesn't have a long, flowing coat.

You know, I think we treat them so much like our children that we sometimes forget that they are really children wearing fur coats who don't speak our language too well!

Good luck. Mine have always gone to a groomer 'cause i don't want to spend all that time trying to get that thick coat dry! :D

10th March 2007, 06:40 AM
I'd try to make the grooming sessions as fun as possible. Start off by having no expectations... that way you will not feel frustrated if things don't go the way you wanted them too. The puppies really pick up on our tension.

Make the grooming session a game. I actually use 2 brushes when I brush our 10 week old Beau. I start to brush him with a brush and as soon as he decides he would like to bite the brush, I just let him have it while I get the second brush & groom him. :D He doesn't try to bite the brush because he hates being groomed, but because he just enjoys killing the brush. So I just let him kill one brush while I use the other. I keep little treats on hand for him and I only do a few strokes on his coat & then tell him what a good boy he is, or play a round of peek a boo, in between strokes.

With bath time, use his own energy against him, rather than trying to hold him down. Use a tub deep enough that he can't get out of. I hold Beau with my arm running lengthwise under him from chest to tummy, with my hand stickout out from between his legs. He keeps trying to climb up my arm but because it is too slippery he gets nowhere. If he looks like he might actually get out, I just move my arm slightly and he slides off again.

The trick is for you to stay calm & do very little, but let him wear himself out. Eventually he will realise that his efforts are getting him absolutely nowhere. You've just got to figure out way of outwitting them, whilst remaining calm & in control yourself.

Yeah easier said than done sometimes. :flwr:

Oh and yeah.... definitely get him checked out by the vets to make sure he is not sore somewhere.

Harry & Heidi's mom
10th March 2007, 08:26 AM
Have to say also don't really agree with this approach either to me it falls into physical punishment, but again it is only opinion though I think you will find most folks here agree:
[quote]i was advised when i got Harry that if he nipped, growled etc at me or the children, to pin him to the floor!, gently but firmly for a few seconds and a firm NO to show him who is boss then walk away as this is how dogs interact in the wild.
worked for us Harry only bit me once


it is not a physical punishment, Harry was NEVER smacked, hurt, injured at all, all you have to do is to show your dog who is the "alpha male" Harry learnt quickly, and is the most loving well manered dog and yes he doesn't like to be bathed but behaves will having one. just noticed crittercall post, yes this is a similar thing teaching submission and that i'm boss!

10th March 2007, 09:01 AM
I was also told that an excellent way to show a dog that you are the boss was to just firmly hold him on his side (gently but firmly) by placing one flat hand towards the shoulder area and one on his rump. Apparently this is what would happen to him in a pack and he would just learn his place. Harvey is a big old softie but as a pup still learning his teeth sometimes got carried away and we did this a couple of times. It works fine, we found the first time he wiggled a bit but the second time he laid still straight away. We also did the always walk thru the door first take bits from his bowl and add bits while he is eating etc. I think it all goes towards letting them know their place. I love my dogs to bits but they have to know where they fit in. Once this is established you can spoil them rotton without a worry!!

Cathy Moon
10th March 2007, 11:44 AM
Pinning or holding your dog down to show him who's boss is an outdated idea that has seriously backfired on dog owners!! Even the author of one of the earlier Monks of New Skete books has apologized and published a retraction of a chapter on training German Shepherd Dogs.

Here is a second link from the Caring for Your Cavalier forum:

Ann, what kind of brush are you using? My pups HATED a pin brush, so I gave it away. Molly's suggestion to use a comb is a good one. Later, a slicker brush, used properly as described in Sheila Smith's Cavalier King Charles Spaniels Today chapter on grooming might be helpful.

There are lots of good suggestions here for grooming and bathing, including being calm, making it fun, taking it slowly and giving treats. I even talk soothing baby talk to my dogs the entire time that I groom and bathe them. I also put my face near them so they can lick it - this seems to build and reinforce their trust in me over time. Saying 'no' to a puppy doesn't give her any information about how you want her to behave. By gently praising her for small things that you like, she will begin to learn what you want.

You might want to try taking your baby to someone who is experienced bathing rambunctious puppies, and ask to watch and learn. :flwr: :flwr: :flwr:

I've edited this to add more information as I'm re-reading the posts...

Cathy Moon
10th March 2007, 11:48 AM
i was advised when i got Harry that if he nipped, growled etc at me or the children, to pin him to the floor!, gently but firmly for a few seconds and a firm NO to show him who is boss then walk away as this is how dogs interact in the wild.
worked for us Harry only bit me once
Pinning is not recommended by behaviorists or trainers who update their skills.

10th March 2007, 12:23 PM
I agree with Caraline about the way she holds her little one in the bath and also with the giving of a second brush to 'kill'. I used both of these methods with Maxx as a puppy and he is so good to do anything with now. In fact, I honestly can't remember ever getting really cross with him about anything, ever.

When he first came to me as a puppy, he was so full of life that I never thought I'd see the day when he liked brushing. A month or so down the line though he would rush to his bed when he saw the brushes coming as he was so used to the routine and actually got to like it.

I think it helps to also have a routine and brush them a little every day with a soft brush, plenty of 'good boy/girl's' and plenty or other praise and gentle talking too.

When Charlie came to us, his coat was in such a state and I don't think he'd ever really been handled much. It used to take 2 of us to get anywhere near him with the brushes. I never thought that any amount of gentle talking/treats/cuddles would ever get him used to the brushes - I was wrong! Charlie will now sit so nicely for me to brush him and when the brushes come out in the afternoons, it's a race for them to get to the big bed to see who is going to be brushed first :lol:

Cathy Moon
10th March 2007, 12:40 PM
Aww, Donna, that is so sweet how they both love to be brushed! :)

That is a good point to brush them a little bit each day.

This works for clipping nails and brushing teeth, too. One nail a day with treats, and brush a few teeth then let them lick the toothbrush for awhile. :flwr:

10th March 2007, 01:06 PM
Just my two pence worth here........

Don't get stressed about bathing and grooming, yeah they wriggle and jiggle and try to escape but.....
A little bit every day is better than a whole grooming session once a week - you don't expect children to sit still while you brush their hair extra so you can't expect a puppy to be either!

Both of mine used to scatter when they saw the brush and would they come upstairs for a bath .... not even for the best treat in the world!

Now after little bits everyday and major positive reinforcement, they both charge to the sofa when the brushes come out and will both gladly get in the bath. Oakley still doesn't like the hair dryer, but we'll get there. :D

Try to make it fun for the dogs and it will be fun for you, that way its positive for everyone all round ;)

10th March 2007, 01:46 PM
I should also add that Kosmo never liked the brush either. I can't use a slicker brush on him even still - he wiggles and whines like a baby. I use a comb for his ears and a zoom groom rubber brush. I use the zoom groom on Faith and she also likes it. I think it's more of a massaging brush. It does pretty good at taking dead hair out though :)

As for submission issues, I've been told to do different things like put your dog in a sit stay and YOU enter the house first, you control the food, if you don't want the dog playing anymore than you take away the toy, etc. There are many different alternatives to this one. :flwr:

Good luck :flwr:

11th March 2007, 02:41 PM
it seems to me a cav thing about being brushed alfie hated it to start with but know he loves it over the last couple of weeks he will show me his tummy,alltough he still is not keen for me to brush his tummy,but i am getting there.it is hard to know whats the best way when you get a puppy,we have never had a puppy ats allways been older rescue dogs.

11th March 2007, 06:37 PM
Sorry have not answered posts earlier, have been away over night.
I have taken onboard all the advise given, thank you everyone.
I am using a soft baby type brush ( for puppies) on Ellie and a wide tooth comb. The tap on the nose was just a tap and wouldnt have hurt her, and I did regret it straight away.
I DO think she knows I am the boss but she is, as I have said very outgoing and I expect she will keep trying to get all her own way until one day she will just give in to me.
Somone mentioned how deep the bath was..... I bathed her in the kitchen sink and I put a rubber mat in the bottom and about 6 inches of water. I held her and talked to her gently. It really is the brush and comb she objects too. She also doesnt like me wiping her tear stains away, and I am very gentle and again I talk softly to her as I do it and always reward her when I have finished.......
She is indeed a firey red head and a real challenge but I love her to bits......
Its because I love her , that her behavour worries me and I am very aware that at her age I need to stop any bad habits.....
One last thing........when I go to her first thing in a morning, she lays on her back to be tickled in a submisive way, so her behavour is confusing. :?

11th March 2007, 07:38 PM
I really, really strongly recommend people FORGET and permanently remove these two terms and every concept they associate with them from their dog vocabulary:

1) dominant
2) submissive

In general these have no real meaning for 99% of pet dog owners (and are badly misunderstand by many underinformed trainers) and are so terribly, terribly misinterpreted and misunderstood that they have probably contributed to the development of more problems with dogs in the past 6 decades than any other reason.

Do you know that dogs were successfully trained for decades -- centuries -- using MOTIVATION eg REWARDS as the norm? That this remains the gold standard of training for any sort of truly precise, demanding form of behaviour training, including trained animals in film and television, even while we jerk, slap, pin and and throttle the dogs we supposedly love dearly because of silly and long discvredited ideas about wolf pack structure that in turn is totally misapplied to dogs, which split from wolves physically and behaviourally hundreds of thousands of years ago? ? That it is only in a training 'industry' looking for quick results (and hence, class enrollments, book sales, video sales) in the past few decades that choke chains, slapping, rolls, pinning, came into vogue?

This is absolutely true. Until World War II and post WWII, when a single study on wolf life based on a domesticated and hence unrepresentative wolf pack in close confinement, rewards based trained and normal, gentle buckle collars were the norm on dogs. With the end of a world war and the rise of consumer culture and perhaps a new notion of macho masculinity, a new idea of punishment and fear based training arose and became a huge industry. And as Cathy notes, this was especially popularised by the Monks of New Skete in their books and manuals in the 80s, still widely available and very good in many, many ways. But they have *totally retracted* their viewpoint on punishment based training, especially the whole concept of alpha rolls and pinning dogs, which they think is *dangerous*.

Sadly many of the most popular TV trainers and book writers continue to popularise these methods. It makes great TV to 'resolve' a dog's problem by scaring it into the desired response in a 30 minute TV programme, often within minutes or even seconds. Great use of TV time -- you can solve LOTS of problems in 30 minutes on a couple of dogs, build your reputation and sell more books! I can say that as someone who works directly in media and knows exactly what producers want. It is more boring to watch the happy response to rewards based training and seeing the right idea click in your dog's mind and it's delight in 'getting it right'. Just like punishing a child into doing what is wanted rather than motivating him. Think back to when you were a child -- check, to your last interaction with your boss -- and think what motivated YOU.

So instead of dominance/submission, think instead of:

1) leadership
2) failing to have YET found the right way to communicate with your dog by MOTIVATING. The right way to get that message out is there!

Dogs do not have human emotions or speak 'human' very well. They are adept at learning to read our body language to some degree -- but often the signals we give them by accident are those that encourage and reward the behaviour we don;t want. Then we punish them for doing what half the time, we also encourage them to do! And therein lies most problems with training and behaviour. Not a problematical dog (these are truly, extremely rare and usually are the result of mistreatment, not temperament). But our poor communication, often at the behest of the very trainers we turn to for advice.

The reason going thru a door first 'works' in helping dog behaviour is NOT because you are showing 'dominance' and going thru the door first like a pack leader. It is simply because you are teaching a good command -- it could be ANY command -- and this helps improve dog behaviour all around. Ditto for reinforcing dogs not be on the furniture without permission, or even banning them -- all you are doing is -- perhaps for the first time -- setting up some tasks and expected behaviours for the dogs. I will guarantee you that if you instead require the dog to sit at the door and wait for permission to go thru, AHEAD of you , you will still have improved behaviour as it is the teaching of self control and polite behaviour that is effective, not some notion that the dog sees you go thru a door first, eat first, or sit higher up on the sofa than the dog and thinks, "Whoa! I guess that must be the more important dog in the house because doorways have an ancient meaning in dog ritual!". :)

I have absolutely no doubt in my mind that one reason we read about so many dangerous dogs and breeds now is that people use these punishment based training techniques, especially potentially very dangerous moves like rolls and pins, on breeds that CAN have a potentially aggressive element o their personalities. Pit bulls are a prime example: this was one of the sitngle most popular family breeds of dogs prior to World War II in the UK and the US!! Helen Keller had a pit bull! They were the usual sidekick dog of film kids, like the Little Rascals. Many of our grandparents and great grandparents will have had a pit or other bull breed as the family dog. The single biggest difference between then and now is *training methods*.

I strongly recommend anyone trying to understand how to train right and train well, read Culture Clash and The Other End of the Leash, two books that give a sturdy understanding of how we can think more correctly about what are dogs are doing and why, and what we are doing and why.

Then get any of Dr Ian Dunbar's training manuals or videos. This will provide the training techniques that last a lifetime and produce a rewarding and unconfused relationship with your dog. They will help you to truly listen to and communicate with your dog, which is the basis of training well and solving any challenging behaviour.

There are many right things about many training approaches but in my book, never to anything that involves force. If you want to base your training methods on wolf or canid theory, then DO NOT USE FORCE. Wild dogs and wolves, much less dog parents, rarely ever resort to force and only in the most extreme situations, as any canid behaviourist -- REAL behaviourist who studies these animals -- will confirm. They only use force when in a direct and violent confrontation as we all should know from our own dog's behaviour with other dogs -- UNLESS a dog has a problem that has developed precisely because it doesn't interact regularly with dogs and mostly interacts with us. Most dogs interact mostly with us -- and we very often give off all the wrong signals (back to the start of the essay above! :lol:) Please note too that growling and snarls are NOT violent acts in dogs MOST of the time -- they are one of the few ways they have to *warn* -- and that is why good trainers say never to punish a dog for using this way of communication or it will only learn to stop warning and go directly to biting, in frustration. Instead, learn to understand why your dog is showing those types of behaviour -- usually there is a reason. Nipping in a puppy is a normal behaviour to either play or something it doesn't like. Yes, we need to manage it but that's by understanding why it is happening in the first place and addressing that situation then redirecting this behaviour effectively.

In the case of having a bad experience bathing a puppy, it is likely because the pup EITHER is pained by the experience -- eg something is causing it pain when brushed or put in the position of a bath, which means have the vet check the dog, and/or consider all the good advice above about ways of holding and brushing the puppy. OR it is scared/unhappy/fearful because it hasn't been gradually introduced to bathing/brushing/whatever as something rewarding and FUN. Most dogs and pups do not start out liking wither bathing or brushing. Most puppies also do NOT need brushing except with a very soft brush, by way of gently preparing them for being brushed when they get an adult coat. Hence never use a pin or wire brush on a puppy coat or even a strong bristle brush. A soft puppy brush is all that is needed for brushing sessions that go with rewards and only last 10-30 seconds at most.

It takes time and patience to train a dog from puppyhood. This is why often, an older, adult dog is a better option for many people (I have noted many times, I personally far prefer adults to puppies for just this reason -- I find puppies too exhausting and too much of a time commitment for me, though fortunately, many others love them. Someday I might opt for a puppy again but Jaspar was enough for me and I've opted for adults since). There is a good year of careful training involved in producing a happy, well behaved adult. If the relationship is not working with a puppy and the year of hard work ahead seems to daunting, then please go back and talk to the breeder about perhaps trading the puppy for an older dog or consider rehoming the puppy and then looking for an older dog. Breed rescue groups would be very happy to help with rehoming.

11th March 2007, 10:33 PM
I really, really strongly recommend people FORGET and permanently remove these two terms and every concept they associate with them from their dog vocabulary:

1) dominant
2) submissive


So instead of dominance/submission, think instead of:

1) leadership
2) failing to have YET found the right way to communicate with your dog by MOTIVATING. The right way to get that message out is there!

8) 8) 8) 8) 8)

12th March 2007, 07:50 AM
My two totally hated being brushed when they were puppies!!! they would wiggle and squirm like crazy!! even with this soft rubber brush i got (which i add did NO good) they couldnt stand..luckily they never ever showed any violence or made a single noise..just wriggled a lot!..however i persisted in brushing them every night without fail..and just over time they grew to accept that whether they liked it or not i was going 2 brush them...now they dont move at all...they lie on the ground patiently while i brush them and sometimes even close their eyes...

i think just be persistent and positive with it and she'll eventually learn its just easier to stay still and get it over with....well thats what worked 4 me anyway :flwr: