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selina
15th March 2007, 11:51 AM
So Lately every time Jeremy goes out he barks, whether I am with him or not. He can see out all sides of our garden as we are on a property. It is driving me spare and have tried everything i can think of but to no avail. I certainly wouldnt use the electronic ones but a while ago i saw the citrus ones at work. What does everyone thinkof these collars. It wouldnt be left on him all the time, just used as a training method. Thanks for any thoughts and info in advance.

Sue.k
15th March 2007, 12:21 PM
Hi Selina,

I got the spray commander collar, they are great!!! They have a remote control so when puppy does what he is not supposed to do you spray him, Prince only had it on him for a very short while and he really has changed for the better :D

moniechris
15th March 2007, 12:24 PM
What do they do? I am very curious now...I have never heard of a spraying collar. Does the citrus sting them?

Kodee
15th March 2007, 01:46 PM
Hi Selina,

I got the spray commander collar, they are great!!! They have a remote control so when puppy does what he is not supposed to do you spray him, Prince only had it on him for a very short while and he really has changed for the better :D
I have not seen this type, it sounds interesting. Having the control over when to activate it makes it interesting. Overall I think it could be over-used if your not careful, but when you get into those issues that everything else hasnt worked it might be worth investigating.

Cathy T
15th March 2007, 02:58 PM
I tried the citronella collar, ONCE, with Jake and did not like it at all. It startled him so badly. Also, I don't want him to think that every time he barks he's going to get squirted in the face. There are times I want him to bark. What I want him to learn is to stop barking when I tell him to. And we're working on that!

GudrunTheRed
15th March 2007, 03:25 PM
A cavalier in our agility class wears one of the citronella ones and his Mommy says it works very nicely for him. I have never heard him bark so I guess it works pretty well! I also know that the ASPCA approves of the citronella ones so I wouldn't have a problem using one.

moniechris
15th March 2007, 03:29 PM
I found this link:
http://www.mightypets.com/subcat.asp?0=327

Is this what you are talking about? What if it go up their nose? that would be horribly uncomfortable! Are there other models?

matties mum
15th March 2007, 03:33 PM
I donnot know much about these collars but a friend put one on there dog and it sprayed him when he bark they said they would rather have him bark them put him though that they said that they felt bad because he was so frighten ----Aileen and the gang (Jazzie---Barney---Sam)

moniechris
15th March 2007, 03:48 PM
Ok, so I have been reading about these a bit and there are two types, one with a remote, and one with a barking "sensor".

The one with a remote has a "tone" which is pretty much the equivilant to clicker training, as it represents a postive thing. You give the dog a treat every time it hears the tone and it is for when the dog does something correctly.

The barking sensor collar has a "microphone" that senses a bark then releases a spray. You are supposed to praise the dog when they are quiet so there is positive training involved as well...

I am curious though. My cavies are very verbal and the barking sensor can be activated by blowing on it. Will it spray whenever they make their great moaning noises or play growls? I know you are supposed to take it off during play time, but I wouldn't want this sensor punishing behaviors that I like.. I guess the remote control one would be better then.

angie
15th March 2007, 09:23 PM
these are used for other training purposes too. i suppose it depends what you want to train them to do. recall is one i have heard uses this method too. if you call and they dont respond they get a squirt and obviously a praise if they do. like the electric collars that do the same but the squirt is more humane...well depends on hope you look at it i suppose. i would expect them to have training manuals?!

luvzcavs
15th March 2007, 11:02 PM
I have never used one but when I got the behaviourist out for my two for many issues she said things like this are not good including water sparys etc.
It is definately not poistive reinforcement which is the most successful way to train (according to the experts) and you are not teaching control or anything really, just teaching fear.
On that teaching note I have no solution or helpful advice but if you find a good way to train for this one let us all know as I'm sure I'm not the only one with two very vocal babies :)

Karlin
15th March 2007, 11:38 PM
You'd never want to use a collar that punishes for recall. This is why: How would the dog know that NOT returning is the wrong thing to do? All it hears is its name or this very im[ortant command to return -- then is punished. So the word is associated with a negative action, not a reward for a desired behaviour.

One thing all trainers say is to never, ever, ever punish a dog in any way for not returning on recall -- because then all the dog associates with hearing you call for him is punishment. This is the fastest way to get a dog to always avoid returning to you. For example, a lot of people will call the dog, dog ignores them; call the dog again, dog ignores them; get angry and go get the dog or dog finally returns -- then they scold or slap the dog for 'not returning and not listening' but what you really have taught the dog is -- 'if I go back to the person, sometimes I get praised, and sometimes I get punished. So I am really confused about what to do when they call me -- do I keep away or go back and risk being hit/scolded?'.

Collars that vibrate ARE used for recall, particularly for deaf dogs. They vibrate gently like a mobile phone would and the dog is trained to return on the vibration.

Some people find citronella collars work for them but I don't like using punishment based approaches included spraying, squirting lemon juice, or citronella anything. It can really burn the dog's eyes for example and tastes terrible and also can badly scare a dog. And yes, it would likely spray when they make fun playing noises as well. And I DO want my dogs to bark when people come to the door or at night if there was an intruder -- and barking as a natural dog activity so forcing them never to bark is like someone forcing you never to speak.

Dogs that bark outside are usually bored, or overstimulated by something, like a cat or birds etc. It is better to keep them inside if barking is a problem or work to remove the stimulus for barking or to train away from barking (there are various ways to do this) or some combination.

selina
16th March 2007, 09:55 AM
Well I was outside most of the day with them today just pottering in the garden and I discovered that everytime another dog barks in the area he barks. How am I supposed to discourage him from that? I only really believe in positive reinforcment but he is just not getting the picture that there are times to bark and times to not. So thats why I thought the citronella collar would be good to try and train him out of barking at every sound. And he is inside most of the time, but you cant keep them in forever they are dogs and need to play and exercise and go to the toilet.And I certainly wouldnt use one for recall thats just silly.
I think I will be getting one at the end of the month just to see if it works and I will keep everyone posted. And I think I will go for the remote one cos then I have control over what he can and cant bark at. But keep the input coming I do value everyones opinion. :thmbsup:

Kodee
16th March 2007, 01:56 PM
My worry would be how would a dog recognize when its ok to bark (playing - its fun when they get excited and show it during playing ball, warning someone at door - I'm deaf in one ear and my lab often had to tell me (kodee wont bark - arg), intruder like an animal on your property - I liked my lab scared some of the wild life out, like cats digging my tulips and rabbits eating my flowers). I not so sure I would want to trade off all the good barking for the occassional bad barking. Hope you dont take offense to that, I just wanted to offer the flip side to consider. Plus alot of these types of things are a bit of a phase - our lab outgrew caring about the small yappy dogs in the neighbourhood and learned to ignore it once about 4 or so.

I think equipment like these may have a use in extreme cases. It might be a good option to train a dog to stay within a particular area, or to stay away from the plants in cases they are ingesting them and making themselves sick. Products like this work when the benefit really ways out against the harm the animal can do to itself as a last resort.

Cathy T
16th March 2007, 03:50 PM
My worry would be how would a dog recognize when its ok to bark (playing - its fun when they get excited and show it during playing ball, warning someone at door

That's where I stood also Debbie. I want them to know it's okay to bark when they're playing, or if something is wrong. I let them bark for a minute, then tell them, okay now quiet. And they do settle down. I just don't ever want them to think that barking is a bad thing.

Natalie
16th March 2007, 04:01 PM
lady doesn't really bark excessivly so i can't really comment on your situation our trainer has taught us to ingore the bad beahviour and heavily priase the good which seems to work really well with lady. I dislike the collars that shoot the spray at the dog i would be scared about the spray irrating the skin or getting in there eyes. Could you contact a trainer and get there opinion on the barking. i don't know if there are any dog trainers on the board that could help out?

selina
17th March 2007, 06:58 AM
Natalie I have always done this with him, but the barking is excessive otherwise i wouldnt even dream of such an extreme measure. I will have another chat to my trainers at dog obedience and see what they say on Sunday. But I have discussed it several times before and at the moment there is only so much ignoring you can do. I dont want my neighbours starting to complain. But thanks anyway. And also if he was just barking when he was playing or if an intruder was on the property that would be fine. But He can see all around his garden and tends to bark at even cars going past the property because he thinks the road is his and he thinks the neighbouring properties are his so he see the people that live there come out into their gardens and tells them off. I have lived next to dogs like this and it is extremely annoying, not that I complained as I have dogs of my own, but I have never had this problem with my other dogs either. If someone can give me some new things to try that would be great.

luvzcavs
18th March 2007, 02:22 AM
Can you keep him inside when you go out ? Obviously when you are there you can moniter the barking and call him in or tell him to leave, quiet etc ? maybe if you keep him inside and leave a radio on this will help ?

selina
18th March 2007, 11:20 PM
He goes in his crate when I go out so the problem isnt then its when I am at home. And he is inside most of the time anyway. Its when I take him out for a toilet break and a play. :flwr:

luvzcavs
19th March 2007, 06:11 AM
In this case I would teach him the quiet command. So he can bark but when you say enough he stops ? Hope this isn't stating the obvious ?

selina
19th March 2007, 09:27 AM
So what do you do when he ignores you. He is really good on everything else but this.

luvzcavs
20th March 2007, 02:43 AM
Change your method of teaching or the reward you are using to train. If he is a foody use a good high value treat and if not you need to decide what is his very favourite toy and make him work for a play with that. It will probably take quite some time with consistent and very regular training so don't expect a quick fix.

Its basically your stimulation vs the stimulation from other barking dogs, smells outside etc. Considering the other barking dogs speak the same language as him your going to have to work really hard to be interesting enough to get his attention or you will have to develop your leadership skills to a level where your word is enough and he chooses to follow the leader so to speak vs the stimulation.
I wonder what the other dogs are saying ??? Must be juicy gossip. :lol:

If you really feel at a loss I would work with a trainer or attend a class and let them know what your focus is ?
Good luck.

selina
20th March 2007, 05:36 AM
Thanks Luv2cavs. I will just have to keep slogging away at it then.

luvzcavs
20th March 2007, 08:31 AM
Yeah or learn to bark so you can join in !! :lol: