Vaccination reaction

Well, my worst fears about vaccinations happened....Bentley had his parvo/distemper combo on Friday. He was a bit lethargic, as I thought he would be, and I know that is normal. But now early this morning he started shaking and then he yelped a few times, like he was in pain. I called my vet, and she recommended that I give Bentley a baby aspirin, or one-fourth of an adult aspirin. So, I gave Bentley one-fourth of an adult aspirin, rolled it up in bread with a smudge of peanut butter on it (she said to give it with food). He is sleeping now, so I hope that was the extent of it. But, wow, it sure scared the crap out of me. All I could think of was the time our Poodle had a bad reaction and was yelping in pain so bad we had to take him in to the vet and give him meds. So, I have my fingers crossed that things will calm down for Bentley now.

Hope Bentley is feeling better! I've not had a negative experience to vacs but am always on the look out.

True adverse vaccine reactions that need to be worried about are the anaphylactic reactions that happen within the first 30 minutes or so of an injection -- that's why it's always recommended to have a vet do vaccinations so they can keep an eye on them for any immediate response. They happen pretty fast just as with bee sting reactions and so forth.

Some discomfort and soreness in the injection site is common. I spent three days with a lot of soreness and the first day feeling quite dizzy when I had one of the main vaccinations for a trip to Africa. Tetanus also induces fairly strong reactions in some people that can last couple of days -- but these are not vaccine reactions per se; they are just the type of thing some folks go thru as their body reacts to the vaccine and starts forming antibodies. Jaspar and Leo both always have had some soreness UNTIL I moved injections to the thigh (see below).

If cavaliers are injected in the neck or shoulder area, I think they all run a risk of extra potential pain because of the 90%+ existence of the skull malformation that often forces the brain out thru the base of the skull in just the area being injected; and also the high incidence of syrinxes (SM -- 35-70% of all cavaliers in research samples; the lesser figure was for a younger sample that didn't classify small syrinxes s syrinxes but 'hydromyelias' or the figure would have been higher; 50%+ is the average for older mixed samples). This means MOST cavaliers COULD have a reaction and ongoing pain from ANY injection into the neck/shoulder region even if they do not normally show symptoms for CM/SM, so many neurologists now advise to always get injections for cavaliers in the butt or thigh.

I thought of that, about the injection being in the neck/shoulder region....so next time maybe I should talk to my vet about an alternate area to do the vaccinations. Thanks! So far he is doing good now, so maybe the worst is over.

I convinced my vet that cavaliers should be given innoculations in the thigh. At the beginning of his veterinary career-- that is where they were taught to give them. Some secondary reactions to vaccinations can be pretty scary. Bloody diarrhea (with weight loss of 5% of body weight--- screaming in pain for days, walks like they are 15 years instead of two. I have a dog that gets lumps where he is innoculated. I fear the dogs immune system maybe trying to keep the serium encapsulated-- the lump stayed for 5 months before it slowly STARTED to go away.

The first time I asked one of my vets to give an injection somewhere else than the neck he said 'OK' and gave it in Leo's back before I could even say, thigh! Leo yelped and was clearly really upset for several minutes after and the injection spot bothered him for several hours after. He is NOT sensitive otherwise -- for example, he donated blood to the cavalier SM DNA project from his leg and this took quite a bit of time. He has a syrinx in his lower neck area which would be pressing against nerve endings down his spine, and I would bet this reaction was due to pain from the injection being in that area. Now I am very careful to say THIGH. Not the vet's fault; I didn't get a chance to explain.

OMG how awful! Well, after this, in the future, depending on how this goes for us, we may end up doing titers. We'll see.

I hope Bentley is feeling 100% by the time you get to read this. That must have really upset you, given the history of your other dog.

Thanks Caraline, yes, I was really scared and upset. So far he's been doing OK, altho he seems a bit more tired this evening, I gave him a second dose of aspirin just a little while ago, my vet suggested I give him a dose tonight, so I did. So, if he should still have a bit of a fever or is feeling achey and sore, this should help.

If your boy does need another innoculation-- you might look into thuja. It is a suppliment that is supposed to help with reactions. I bought some and haven't asked about dosage yet-- I am not sure my vet knows enough about it-- an holistic vet may know. I hope he is feeling like himself by tomorrow.

Nicki might know as she has quite a bit of info on alternative approaches.

Oh, I hadn't heard of that....thanks Sandy, and thanks Karlin! I will have to read up on that. Bentley should be good now, as far as shots go, my vet told me he won't need to come back for any more vaccinations for 3 years now. So I can breathe a sigh of relief for the time being at least. I sure do appreciate all of your help tho, this board and all of you here has sure helped to ease my mind!

:flwr:

Go the nosodes route for your Cavalier.

I use conventional for my others (Shelties) but not the Cavs. In this house we have seen to many bad reactions in the past with the Cavaliers to go down that path ever again.

Alison.

yes Thuja can help to prevent reactions to vaccines - I will look up the dose.

From one of my books - Thuja 30c one hour before and one hour after the vaccination.

Also you can give Silicea 30c on the day of vacccination.

Check with your vet what is actually necessary for your area - if there haven't been any cases of leptospirosis, do you need to vaccinate against it?



As Karlin says, at the very least, make sure the vet injects into the thigh. There is some loose skin at the front of the thigh, and this is a good place. If your Cavalier is having any injections at all, or going in for surgery, stress this to you vet that you want injections in the thigh and none in the neck.

I use nosodes, but have researched this thoroughly, and although I am aware of the lack of scientific research, I am also aware of the reasons for this - there isn't the funding {as you prob know it is very expensive}, and there are also serious welfare implications in doing research over the lifetime of the dogs - they have to be kept in isolation.

There is a lot of anecdotal evidence for nosodes, my own supplier has over 400 customes using them all the time, including breeders regularly attending dog shows. None of these have ever had problems.

Dr Richard Pitcairn also has some very interesting information in his book, and there is a brilliant chapter on vaccination in Don Hamilton's Homoeopathy book. Both are available from Amazon.

if you follow this link, then NESSR {spaniel rescue including Cavaliers} benefit from any purchase you may make {UK}

http://www.amazon.co.uk/?&tag=surft...=7038&linkCode=qs1&adid=0666R9SW48ZVR9PHAEWH&


I have one vaccine damaged dog, and now only give Nosodes to my Cavaliers.

This is something that you have to research very carefully and make your own decisions about...

Bobo has the same reaction when he gets that vac. It takes about 24 hours before he is back to normal he always gets his shot in the rear portion.
judy

Thank you so much all of you, I am beginning to realize that our Cavaliers seem to be way more sensitive to things like vaccines than other dogs. I am going to ask my vet about the nosodes and the thuja....those are both new to me. No, I didn't get the lepto for Bentley, heard too many bad things about the vaccine, and my vet did not recommend for him anyway.

Again, wow, thank you so much! I am going to look online and do some research now about what I have learned here.

:flwr:

Our holistic vet sends Thuja home following a rabies shot (I can't remember the dose--30 cc sounds right--but he likes it to be given for three days). (This last time we did titers and so we didn't have additional boosters other than the rabies.)

Just be aware that there is very little medical evidence to make a strong case for the effectiveness of nosodes and they remain a controversial way of immunising a dog. An existing survey of all studies done on this topic, carried last spring in one of the leading professional holistic vet journals, noted the studies were generally far too small and often, poorly structured and sloppily conducted -- and that more studies are badly needed in this area. Because of this I would personally only choose nosodes in special circumstances when there are no other options though I know others are more comfortable with this choice. I respect individual choice but will not promote nosodes here because I believe them to be substandard for healthy dogs *on existing evidence*. Like most in rescue, I have seen dogs dying painfully from distemper and parvo and would not be willing to run the risk that nosodes do not work, with my own dogs. Leo, who has SM, has shown no problems with normal vaccinations (including kennel cough and lepto -- indeed he was just kenneled with dogs where there was an outbreak of kennel cough and all unvaccinated dogs got it. None of mine did.) and I would not choose otherwise unless he becomes more health compromised, but at such a point I would shift to nosodes for him as the next best option. Keep in mind the risk of parvo and distemper is low anyway especially amongst dogs not regularly in contact with other dogs, so that is why I am not convinced by anecdotal evidence for nosodes -- even amongst unvaccinated dogs few after puppyhood will get distemper/parvo, just as very few used to get rabies back when it wasn't vaccinated against, but if they do it can be lethal.

Be sure whatever decision you ultimately make, to get professional advice from a holistic vet and a conventional vet ideally, so that you can weigh different perspectives. Also always be sure to have a holistic vet's advice when administering holistic remedies as, like any medication (and that is what they are), they can clash with other medications -- sometimes lethally -- and what suits one animal may not be appropriate to yours. Some are quite harmless but you need to know which ones and under what circumstances, something experienced folks will know but neophytes should always check with a holistic vet. Advice from others on a board like this, who are nonprofessionals, is useful as a guideline, and to get assorted perspectives, but should NEVER be the basis of self-medicating an animal nor believed to be 100% accurate information. Most people post with good intent on the basis of either what they can remember or their own opinion, but this is NOT sufficient grounds for basing medical treatment decisions. This is not to automatically negate any of the advice given or the bona fides of folks posting, it is just a general caution on threads like this.

Thanks Karlin! I will always consult my vet, and I am actually still leaning toward having titers drawn the next time vaccinations are due. Altho I do like to read up on the alternatives too. But, perhaps for us titers are the route for us to go, my vet does offer that. I am very leery of giving anything to Bentley now, vaccines or holistic routes as well, so I definitely will proceed with caution.

Remali said:

Thank you so much all of you, I am beginning to realize that our Cavaliers seem to be way more sensitive to things like vaccines than other dogs. I am going to ask my vet about the nosodes and the thuja....those are both new to me. No, I didn't get the lepto for Bentley, heard too many bad things about the vaccine, and my vet did not recommend for him anyway.

Again, wow, thank you so much! I am going to look online and do some research now about what I have learned here.

:flwr:

Click to expand...

I used to think cavaliers were extremely sensitive, but I've changed my mind. I've had one break bones in her foot and she still stayed sweet. I have had numerous blood draws (heartworm, progesterone,brucellosis) and very few have even flinched.
Even my vet has stopped routinely giving lepto and he has stopped with corona (for many reasons - but in part due to the reactions from dogs). He now gives a cat vaccine with an "airneedle" looking machine (so cats don't get tumors from the vaccines).