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moniechris
19th March 2007, 05:18 PM
Zoey has had diarrhea since Saturday. She wouldn't eat her breakfast, which is totally unlike her because it is usually gone in under a minute. When she had the diarrhea again, I began a fast for 24 hours. She basically slept all day...because she was sleeping and not drinking, I was syringing about 2 teaspoons of water to her every hour or so.

On Sunday was much more active and I fed her boiled chicken and white rice (which she ate with gusto) but she still had diarrhea. She was drinking on her own and she wasn't dehydrated at all (skin snapped back, gums good color)

Today, she is eating really well (scarfing down the chicken and rice) and is playing like mad, but still has the runs. There is now a pinkish tone to the fluids in her diarrhea, which I am assuming is blood. I made an apointment with the vet for tomorrow @ noon. They are slammed because everyone is paranoid because of the food recall

Here are my thoughts:

~She has been eating cat poo in the back yard and maybe she picked up a bacterial infection or worms.

~She eats innova evo and my hubby (bless him) left the bag open on the counter for a few days while I was out of town. Could the food have spoiled??? I noticed white flakes in the food, but I don't know if those were there before or if I am just paranoid...

~blockage???

~I did some research and the parvo concept scares the sh@# out of me, but I figure if it was parvo, then she would be going down hill instead of her activity levels increasing...

Any input would be appreciated

Remali
19th March 2007, 06:07 PM
When Bentley had the runs I gave him canned pumpkin and it worked wonders for helping firm up his stools. First I would check with your vet, and if there isn't anything serious going on, the boiled chicken and rice will help, and 100% pure canned pumpkin, not the pie filling, should help. I fed Bentley about 2 teaspoons of the pumpkin and he is 19 lbs. Also, the vet may want to check for worms. I would definitely consult a vet tho....just to be on the safe side.

luvzcavs
20th March 2007, 03:31 AM
I would think given the duration and its persistence against the fasting and bland diet it must be some kind of tummy bug/infection. Definately doing the right thing going to the vets. Hope she is on the mend soon. :flwr:

Caraline
20th March 2007, 03:59 AM
Poor little mite. Yeah a vet visit would be a good idea.

judy
20th March 2007, 05:40 AM
after the experience i went through when zack had bloody diarrhea and then vomiting/lethargy, and was sick for 5 weeks, until one blessed vet decided to try a deworming medication immediately curing zack, i would always consider worms, and i would also be aware that isolated negative stool tests don't mean anything. If i wanted to be sure about worms and some other bugs, i'd have daily stool samples for at least 3 consecutive days, to rule out those things. Zack had three stool samples but they were each about a week apart. All negative. But worm meds cured him overnight after he'd been sick for 5 weeks so...so much for isolated stool samples, that's my opinion.

Were you talking about EVO kibble or canned food? I don't believe the kibble could spoil. but i sure don't know what the white flakes could be, my EVO kibbles have never had white flakes in them. Just kibble.

I'm glad she is getting her energy back and drinking. I hope she's much better tomorrow. There are so many things that can cause diarrhea symptoms. i think you have some good theories to explore. good luck at the vet. Hopefully whatever it is, is running its course.

moniechris
20th March 2007, 04:46 PM
Yesterday, I called the vet asking if I could run by a "sample" and they said just to go ahead and bring her in (I LOOVE my vet). They knew if I was that concerned that it was important.

When I brought her in, a new doctor whom I had never seen before, stopped in his tracks and said "She is GORGEOUS!!" :lotsaluv: I liked him immediately, of course. Turns out he is a vet that works there seasonally and usually works in Michigan. I asked if he was a cavalier fan and he said that he works personally with three AKC show breeders at home and they are his absolute favorite breed. :D :D :D!!

He examined a fecal sample and even called me into the back to look under the microscope (which no one has ever let me do) and he pointed out that there were no parasites to be seen, but there was a high white blood cell count from her intestines. He also said that her bacterial count was normal as well. At that point my brain was screaming Parvo, but he assured me that she would not be romping and playing if it was parvo.

He is treating it as "nonspecific toxicity" because the blood cells make it seem as if she may have eaten something poisonous and her body is fighting it off. He gave me Hills I/D and some anti diarrhea medication (Amforal) and asked me to call his this morning.

Zoey had diarrhea at 6am, before I gave her the medicine. I fed her around 10am and gave her the medicine. She romped and played for about 30 minutes, then threw up the food. :sl*p: I called my vet and he said to continue with the medicine and feed her a tablespoon of the I/D every three hours instead of 2 big meals. :(

judy
20th March 2007, 05:39 PM
:( just being in the same room with ID diet makes me want to throw up. Zack threw that up too. But to be fair, he also threw up chicken and rice, which he ate voraciously.

hopefully the antidiarrheal meds will help her out. Zack had flagyl which was anti diarrheal, and it worked fast and thoroughly, at first. But the diarrhea came back later.

it does sound like there is something toxic and her body is dealing with it. Did the vet say anythnig about stool samples on consecutive days to be clear about worms and things?

good luck! get well soon zoey :flwr:

moniechris
20th March 2007, 05:51 PM
He said to call back tommorrow at the latest with any updates. I am going to mention the consecutive samples to him because that correlates with all of the research I have done about parasites. There seems to be progress though, because usually the second she eats, it comes right out the other end. I just gave her a table spoon and she gobbled it up and there is no sign of the runs...yet. But we shall see.

I really was not impressed with the I/D ingredients as it has wheat, corn and soy (all three my shih tzu is allergic to). Zoey is on Evo so she hasn't eaten grains in months which could be why she threw it up. The first ingredient is water so I am assuming it is very gentle, but it wouldn't be an option for stewie if this ever became a problem for him.

moniechris
20th March 2007, 06:03 PM
UGH. Take that back. Runs again outside. :(

arasara
20th March 2007, 06:35 PM
Oh Monica I am so sorry. :( I know how awful you must feel. :( I thought I was going to lose my mind when kosmo got sick and he only threw up 5 times - poor you have had to struggle through this for days. ;(

Zoey is probably losing weight too which isn't good for her. :( Has the doctor suggested pedialyte or something like that?

How long has this been going on? He would have to take more invasive action soon I am assuming? Is Zoey acting alright or sleeping more or anything? Does your oh think you're overreacting? (mine would!)

If you need anybody to talk to you have my # (I think?) - I LOST yours :yikes

Take care Monica - give little Zoey hugs from me and my gang

moniechris
20th March 2007, 06:49 PM
*ng*l Sara you are just so wonderful! :D

She is asleep on my lap right now, but she has been acting just fine. She is still tearing up my boys and runs through the back yard attacking the leaves. :lol: Thank goodness she is sleeping through the night. She gets up at 7am with Michael and she goes straight for the puppy pad. I don't want to let her outside in the dark because she has a tendancy to eat whatever she can find on the ground. :yuk:

I would feel a lot better if I knew what was going on. I just want an answer and how to fix it :( Not knowing is the worst.

This has been going on since Saturday. I can't get anything done because I am to afraid to leave her. Ugh.

Crittercall
20th March 2007, 06:54 PM
The shihtzu I had before Sasha had Irritable Bowel Syndrome, so we battled diarrhea frequently with her. I would feed her the canned ID and she was also on metronidazole (flagyl) which usually cleared her right up.

Are the doing a floatation fecal or a smear? You might want to ask that, too. Could make a difference.

It's so frustrating when there is something wrong and nobody can quite figure out what it is. I hope you get a solution soon before you go crazy.

Think that she may be reacting to any stress you may have been under? That's what my shihtzu did- she was always so in tune with my emotions.

Good luck!

moniechris
20th March 2007, 07:11 PM
They did a smear. I will mention the floatation as well, I hope that it will make a difference.

Sara: I took her to the vet last week for her 2nd round of parvo and she weighed 8lbs then. Yesterday she weighed 8.6lbs, so she is hasn't lost any weight yet.

I just worry that if she did eat something toxic, that she could have some kind of kidney damage. With all of this crazy talk about the recall, that is always in my mind even though she has never touched any of that food. If we don't find anything conclusive and it is definitely not parasites, then I am going to request bloodwork. I just want to know :(

Lindsay
20th March 2007, 07:12 PM
So sorry to hear Zoey is still having an upset tummy. :( Tilly sends a big lick her way. :hug:

Shay
20th March 2007, 07:31 PM
Sorry to hear little Zoey is having tummy troubles. I hope she is better soon. :flwr:

Karlin
20th March 2007, 08:13 PM
This is pretty much what I saw with Lily when she had bad gastroenteritis -- end up dripping blood from her anus. :yikes It took about two-three days to get that bad. My vets didn't bother with tests; just diagnosed, gave her an injection to settle her stomach and dry out the runs, as they put it, then she had a tablet to take for about 10 days. After a day she was much better. So perhaps this is similar.

Vets said they'd normally be able to feel a blockage. Vet also said she had the noisiest stomach for a small dog that he'd heard in a while. :roll: Oh they also gave her some Hill's id wet food which she loved of course as she does anything that can possibly be eaten.

Hope Zoey is feeling better soon.

moniechris
20th March 2007, 08:23 PM
I looked that up online Karlin, and it sounds exactly like what Zoey is going through. My vet is going to think I am nuts going in there with a laundry list of diagnosis and tests I want run :lol:

judy
20th March 2007, 09:44 PM
...I took her to the vet last week for her 2nd round of parvo and she weighed 8lbs then. Yesterday she weighed 8.6lbs, so she is hasn't lost any weight yet...


Have you considered the possibility that the vaccination could have triggered something? Sometimes adverse reactions to some vaccines are like milder versions of the actual disease. I think most vets give modified live virus for parvo vaccination. I have no idea if the vaccination could've played a role in this, but the timing caused me to wonder.

Zack had bloody diarrhea the day i got him. A couple of days later he was put on Flagyl by the vet and it cleared up immediately. When i thought he was all better, after the 7 days of Flagyl were completed, a few days later, i got his last puppy shot, and shortly after that the bloody diarrhea returned and they put him back on Flagyl. I dont' know if the vaccination played a role. Jean Dodds thinks it's a reason for him to have titers instead of annual boosters.

Zack did not lose any weight at all throughout the 5 weeks he was having diarrhea and vomiting. He gained some weight. I wasn't even worried about him while it was just the diarrhea, although the blood was alarming, but when the vomiting started, which was a week after the shot, he was also lethargic, depressed, not eating and not drinking, i was so worried. But still, he didn't lose weight. He had good days and worse days, and on good days he ate and acted normally.

Since worm med cured him, i believe worms were causing his symptoms. I have wondered whether the immune system stress, first of coming to a new home, and then of the vaccination, lowered his resistence to the worms (or whatever it was) allowing them to cause such symptoms. After the worming, i didn't see any worms in the stool. It's all speculation. I'm just so glad it's over, and am hoping it will be for Zoey soon too.

Cathy T
21st March 2007, 04:35 AM
No advice Monica....just wanted to let you know I'm sympathetic!! We had such bouts of off and on with Jake...I can totally relate. it's very frustrating and exhausting. Hope you get everything cleared up soon.

arasara
21st March 2007, 02:22 PM
Hey Monica,

how is zoey today? :flwr:

moniechris
21st March 2007, 03:17 PM
We all just got out of bed (having all five dogs sleep with me has been heavenly :lol: ) Michael lets them in when he leaves for work. I hope they don't get too used to this... I am only home for 2 weeks!!

Zoey is romping and playing but she hasn't pooped yet and she has been up for an hour. :? I keep following her around to check but there is no sign of anything. At this point I am happy that she is able to keep food in so I know that she is getting nutrition, but I would like to know if it is working or not!!

arasara
21st March 2007, 03:38 PM
hopefully no poop is a good sign :)

I know Faith didn't poop a lot yesterday and Avi was going nuts at me because I kept taking her out every 5 minutes :yikes I think I have the equivalent to OCD when I know she needs to poop and she won't do it icon_whistling

Then she peed on the floor :oops: :sl*p: :sl*p:

Oh well at least I caught her and she finished outside :flwr: too bad it was on that damned area rug

WHY THAT RUG?@ She refuses to pee on the cheap rug! :?

Cathy T
21st March 2007, 04:43 PM
Hey....Faith is a woman of good taste :D

moniechris
21st March 2007, 09:14 PM
I went out to lunch with my mom today, and it was the first time that I had actually gotten out of my PJ's in 3 days (literally). When I had gotten home, it looks like Zoey pooped on the puppy pad and one of the other's ate it :yuk: so I have no idea if it was diarrhea or not. For god's sakes, this is getting ridiculous. :x

arasara
21st March 2007, 09:19 PM
:grnyuk: Does that happen often?

I hope she's feeling better :flwr:

Caraline
21st March 2007, 10:00 PM
Poor little mite, and poor mummy. Hope this all settles down soon now. It is good that Zoey is still a bit of a wild child even though she has the runs, and that she is putting on weight despite it all. That is always reassuring. Anyway, fingers crossed that the next poo is pick-up-able, rathern than hose-able.

moniechris
21st March 2007, 10:23 PM
Sara: more often than I would like to admit to. That is what I thought initially got her sick. You would swear that the cat poo in the back yard was like prime rib!!! It is absolutly foul. :yuk: :yuk: :yuk:

Cathy T
21st March 2007, 10:38 PM
Monica - I feel for you!!! Three days finally getting dressed. Oh yeah, I've periods like that. Do keep us posted...this is getting frustrating for me...I can only imagine how you are feeling :flwr:

moniechris
22nd March 2007, 07:37 PM
Sooooo....Zoey passed a firm poo last night, and this morning. But she has thrown up twice today. :sl*p:

If it isn't one problem its another. When she threw up, it contained a big wad of hair and I just pulled another one out of her mouth. She is driving me crazy because she keeps eating stuff off the floor!!!! AAAAARRG! I am so frustrated!!

arasara
22nd March 2007, 08:06 PM
awww monica,

Just calm down, take a big deep breath and look at little Zoey!!

She's so cute and precious how could you ever be frusterateD? :flwr:

I'm glad she passed a firm poo - hopefully you won't see any more throwing up and you guys will be feeling better again soon :flwr:

Thank God you were home this week huh! :flwr:

Joanne M
22nd March 2007, 08:59 PM
I went through this last year with Tucker and I know how worrying it can be. I found a considerable amount of blood in Tucker's stool. Were it not midnight I would have been at a Vet Hospital with him immediately as it was, I waited until the Vet Office opened at 7:30. The vet put Tucker on Purina Gastro Enteric canned food. He loved it. The Vet also prescribed Flagyl explaining that in addition to it being an anti-biotic it has the side benefit of settling stomach inflammation. I left a stool sample and the tests did not reveal a parasite or a bacterial infection. He got better after a few days. When I first gave Tucker the canned food I only gave him a tablespoon at a time until I saw how well he would tolerate it.

Weeks later he got sick again. Not so much blood but very loose/runny stools. Back to the vet he went, and was again prescribed flagyl. It was around that time that I found this website and began reading posts of people who were talking about their cavalier's sensitive tummies. I made changes to Tucker's diet and he has improved dramatically. He used to have bilish vomit at least weekly, sometimes more, the loose stools came and went. But since his diet changed he has not thrown up once. The only time he has loose stool I can trace it back to what he's eaten that day.

Please keep us posted and let us know how Zoey is doing. We all love her.

moniechris
22nd March 2007, 09:40 PM
Joanne: What are you feeding Tucker?

Joanne M
22nd March 2007, 09:55 PM
Monica,

I don't think I was feeding Tucker enough before. I'm currently feeding him a kibble I found recommended on the Whole Dog Best Food List which Tucker's breeder provided to me. It's Doctors Foster & Smith Chicken and brown rice formula adult dog food (kibble).

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/Prod_Display.cfm?pcatid=8959&Ntt=chicken%20and%20brown%20rice%20formula%20dog%2 0food&Ntk=All&Ntx=mode+matchallpartial&Np=1&N=2001&Nty=1

I realize as a puppy zoey is fed differently but Tucker gets fed twice daily around 3/4 cup to 1 cup total kibble. To that I add/rotate a variety of fresh protein, a sprinkling of boiled chicken, a tablespoon of lowfat cottage cheese, boiled hamburg, a tablespoon of scrambled eggs, a tsp to tbsp of plain lowfat yogurt. I also give him fruit or veggies but not with every meal. I would like to have other kibbles to rotate. At the time I found this one I also purchased Wellness fish and sweet potato but I noticed when Tucker ate that he had loose (not runny) stools.

moniechris
22nd March 2007, 10:14 PM
Thanks Joanne. I feed Wesley, Cody and Stewie the Wellness fish and potato and they do great on it. I just have this horrible feeling about the bag of Innova Evo (I found white flakes in it, and I have never seen them before) so until I get a new bag I am going to try Zoey on the Wellness. I just mixed in a few bits of kibble with the I/D to begin the transition back to normal food.

I will keep everyone posted as to how that goes :roll: . This girl is going to be the death of me.

duncans_ma
23rd March 2007, 11:15 PM
Monica,
I wish I had come across this earlier....this sounds like what I went through with Arthur...for 3 months. I/D is a godsend, to the point that my vet recommended I keep him on it for 3 full months before trying to switch back. His intestinal track needed a break. We fed 1/4 can of I/D twice a day after he was firm and 3 months later he is thriving. I now supplement with veggies, etc and still no problem. We are hoping to switch to the same food as Dunc soon. We went through the diarhea, fast, ID cycle 3 times before I just gave in and stuck with ID..I am sorry we are here for you.

angie
24th March 2007, 03:16 PM
have you still got the bag of evo and if you have maybe getting it checked out? if others say it shouldnt have white flakes in it then maybe it is contaminated. i dont use this brand but it does sound odd. good luck :flwr:

Shay
24th March 2007, 03:20 PM
Hi Monica...How is little Zoey today?

Cathy T
25th March 2007, 05:55 AM
Yes, wondering how she's doing!!

moniechris
25th March 2007, 07:17 AM
Zoey is still driving me crazy. Just when I think we have it under control, she goes and eats her poo (or hair off the ground) and vomits. :yuk:

Honestly, I am just going to let this run its course and watch her like a hawk. I am trying to ween her back onto normal food and off of the ID, as her poos are not runny, just extremly soft. She is eating about 5 ice cubes a day so she is fully hydrated+ drinking water from the bowl, so I am hoping this is the worst of it. I was doing some yard work today and found 3 baby bufo toads...I would be willing to put money that she got a hold of one a week ago and it made her ill.

She ran into my room today and peed all over my laundry, as her potty training has gone out the window because I haven't been letting her go outside at all (she uses pee pads, but dad forgot to put one down today :sl*p: ) I am glad she is on the mend, but I am still on poo patrol and constantly pulling stuff out of her mouth.

Thank you everyone for sharing your experiences and talking me through this. It really has not been easy. You guys are wonderful!!!!

luvzcavs
25th March 2007, 09:09 AM
Not sure if this has already been suggested but why don't you use an x pen for now both inside and outside you can limit the eating nasties and peeing inappropriately ?