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Caraline
23rd March 2007, 08:08 AM
I am being given conflicting information and would like to hear your opinions.

Beau is 12 weeks old and has only had his first vaccination at 6 weeks. He will be getting his second shot next Thursday.

I phoned today to enrol him in Puppy School and the lady, who sounded really lovely is keen for him to start this Sunday. When I told her that Beau had not completed his course of injections yet, she said that this was okay because they hold classes in an enclosed area (at the showground), and because everyone has to present their vaccination certificates prior to entry. She said that if I was worried, to just carry him from the car, to the area that the classes will be held.

I always though, and some of my friends told me that Beau should not be allowed to walk around in a public area until 2 weeks after his entire course of shots had been done, because even if there were no infected dogs present, the bugs can still be in the soil.

So can you guys straighten me out on this one please? :?

Oh PS - We don't have rabies here in Australia. We usually vaccinate against Distemper, Hepatitis, Parvovirus Enteritis, Parainfluenza & Bordetella (with C5). However, I notice on Beau's vaccination certificate, the breeder's vet only vaccinated him against Parvovirus, Distemper & Hepatitis (with C3).

Karlin
23rd March 2007, 11:52 AM
Well, it's tricky. Theoretically he shouldn't be mixing til 10 days or so after the second injection. But many feel the risk is extremely low and that the benefits of socialising outweigh the small chance of a problem for dogs in this kind of situation.

It comes down to your risk comfort level but I know some good breeders who would have no issues with puppies mixing in this protected way and feel people are often overly protective... perhaps making puppies end up with weaker immune systems due to the lack of exposure they get to the real world for the first 3-4 months of life.

Some won;t even walk a dog across the floor at a vets but I find that ridiculous. Look what is happening to children due to their not having a normal level of exposure to colds, germs etc. You create a strong immune system by challenging it, not by isolating it.

That doesn't mean I'd ever walk a puppy thru a neighbourhood or at a park prior to its vax series finishing and the wait period being over, but I would myself get puppies to meet other dogs and pups (I did with Jaspar) and would never carry my dogs around pet shops or vets.

Barbara Nixon
23rd March 2007, 12:44 PM
I would wait. I did take my puppies out before vaccination was completed, but they were carried and no dog or person was allowed to touch them.

Although the area is enclosed and vaccination certificates are presented at the class, you don't know what dogs have been in the space at other times.

Kodee
23rd March 2007, 01:23 PM
I took Kodee after speaking with my vet who is pretty cautious. She didnt want me putting Kodee down on the waiting room floor. I had mentioned my husband wanted her to get out of her crate as another puppy her age was there and playing with older dogs. She said I was right, not to till she was through her shots as their was no guarantee why the older dogs were there or if that puppy owner was as careful as I was.

However she wanted me to take the puppy classes. I was confused and she answered it this way. You have to weight the benefits - the trainer I was using is also her behavioural therapist. The vet felt she is very strict about who she allows in her classes and also watches the puppies for signs of illness, lax owners etc..

The key she said is to not take chances in vet offices where sick animals are brought, pet stores (personally I am against puppy classes in stores for this reason - there is always a dog pee/pooping in them), the park and walks off my street.

No one can tell you there is no risk as there will be. But I decided to go as the place i go washed the floors right before we went in and the instructor really did watch all these dogs. She began each class asking if anyones dog was showing signs of not feeling well (loose stools, overly tired, vomiting to not attend till they were sure - she drove it home). The benefit Kodee got from those puppy socialization classes far outweighed the risk - but the risk was real.

I also only let her go about 15 houses up as I speak with the bulk of dog walkers past my house and know most. I also dont let her get to close to the obvious like the fire hydrant :yikes

Alison_Leighfield
23rd March 2007, 01:33 PM
So do you have more than one dog at the moment in your home?

And are you keeping that dog in all the time until puppy has finished all the shots and can then go outside? .... no walks, no outside at all, no sniffing other dogs (wee and poo included here as well)! just kept inside 24/7.....or in the garden?

So you see by taking any dog out for a walk when you have this situation with a puppy at home you are taking a small risk by bringing germs and infection back into the home after the walk and contact with others.... if you are doing this and have another dog in your home then I would accept what the trainer has advised you but just be very careful.

To socialise at this age is so important, just keep him off the floor until you get into the place of training, car rides are good for getting out with a puppy as well, lots of different noises and enviroments/smells etc.

Alison.

WoodHaven
23rd March 2007, 03:50 PM
I know we live in different continents-- but my vet doesn't count a shot before 8 weeks as anything but a temporary shot (and he'd give only parvo/distemper at that time). We give shots at 9 (parvo/distemper) 12 dhpp and 16 dhpp. At 13 weeks we socialize.

Kodee
23rd March 2007, 06:17 PM
I know we live in different continents-- but my vet doesn't count a shot before 8 weeks as anything but a temporary shot (and he'd give only parvo/distemper at that time). We give shots at 9 (parvo/distemper) 12 dhpp and 16 dhpp. At 13 weeks we socialize.You bring up an interesting point here - its the same in Canada. But i was/am confused on Kodee. The breeder gave her shots at 6wks - just the parvo/distemper as you said. So it was 12 wks when she got her second (or from what i read it really should have been counted as her 1st). She just had last night her 3rd (or 2nd depending on how you look at it) at 16 wks. I have been bothered by this from the start as the first was so early and not full and the 2nd was 6 wks later! I thought I'd have to do another set but was told no, just the rabies in 2wks. Does this seem right?

Jenny37
23rd March 2007, 08:23 PM
Oh gosh---I am so confused.... We are getting our 1st cavalier in about 5 weeks. So other than our yard, we should not let the puppy down on grass until she has all of her vaccinations?

My son is an avid baseball player and I had already pictured taking her with us to his games. If I don't allow other dogs around her, is she still at risk for diseases from the grass?

Kodee
23rd March 2007, 10:26 PM
Oh gosh---I am so confused.... We are getting our 1st cavalier in about 5 weeks. So other than our yard, we should not let the puppy down on grass until she has all of her vaccinations?

My son is an avid baseball player and I had already pictured taking her with us to his games. If I don't allow other dogs around her, is she still at risk for diseases from the grass?
A park would be considered high risk - think how many dog owners go through it everyday. I dont think I personally would risk that till through the shots. Even at the vets I dont put her on the grass but risk instead her wetting the crate till I get home. After her 2nd shots I did puppy socialization, I walked her on the sidewalk but mostly she just wanted to watch cars and kept her off lawns - I only went up about 10 or so houses. Even after her third shots I am told it will be 2 wks till she is ok to go to a park.

Karlin
23rd March 2007, 10:49 PM
I wouldn't risk any puppy at a park, on outdoor walks on the ground, in vets on the floor, etc til they are 10 days past their final puppy shots. However in Europe they don't generally do that long three week series -- most do the two week series two weeks apart and then they are done. So the wait isn't nearly as long -- 10 weeks of age plus a week-10 days to be ready to get out and about.

After that I would not restrict my dog. But I know people who don't even allow their adult dogs to touch a vet room floor for example.

I think otherwise-- the way to keep a dog healthy is to have it as generally resistant as possible, which means stressing the immune system, not avoiding every possible bug. This is well establsihed procedure with kids as well.

If people have any question at all on when they can bring puppies where, *call your vet*. The office can answer all those questions by phone and that's why they are there. Vets however also have different opinions -- I had one tell me to wait for a puppy socialising class the vets themselves offer, and another advise me to go after the first shot. :lol: So there isn't one strict answer on the question of careful early socialising and you need to weigh up acceptable risks and benefits.

I took Jaspar as a pup over to friends with adult dogs all the time before his vax series was complete, and also carried him out so that he would experience people, crowds and the sounds of traffic. Jaspar was never sick as a puppy and has never been sick full stop. He is now 3.5 years old.

Caraline
23rd March 2007, 11:26 PM
:thnku: Okay, you guys have been great and have helped me come to a decision. I think I am going to play it on the safe side & wait until the 2 weeks after Beau's final shot. I am probably being a nervous nelly, but I just don't want to have regret in my heart if things went wrong. These classes are held at a showground where dog shows are also held, so there would be a high traffic of dogs, and though one would expect most would have been vaccinated, it just doesn't fill me with confidence.

To answer some questions there have been asked...

We have 3 other adult dogs at home. We live on acres in a rural area so it is very rare for our dogs to be walked in public areas where other dogs frequent. They do get outings, rides in the car & go visiting to other family members who have dogs that are all vaccinated. Any walks we do are on a deserted beach (on leash allowed), and I do mean deserted. You can walk for miles & maybe see a fisherman or two. Of course others would walk their dogs on that beach, but wow there wouldn't be too many in a day. In fact I can't remember the last time I saw anyone on the beach with a dog.

As for Beau himself.... at the moment he gets socialised by our own dogs, but of course that is not the same as stranger's dogs. He gets lots of car outings and goes visiting to our family & their dogs. He gets carried around in public places where there is noise & traffic. He is allowed to run around in our garden, but has never been put down on the ground in a public place.

Beau is doing really well with his at home training and has learned not to annoy the other dogs (most of the time), he walks quite nicely on the leash (for his age), sits, comes, understands "uh!".... we can't say "no" it rhyms with Beau, & we are working on "stay". So yeah, I think I am just going to wait.

Cathy Moon
24th March 2007, 12:58 AM
I would do the same as you. :thmbsup:

Kodee
24th March 2007, 01:00 AM
I think because of the class location I would do the same as you. Mine was in this sterile gym (literally washed down by the trainer and her helper right before class - rubber mat floor and all.

But you also have a built in plus I dont... your other dogs. You will be able to provide socialization I couldnt. And to boot, your a very experienced dog owner (your avatar reveals your history!) so you know what your doing for early training too.