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Pumkin
9th April 2007, 07:43 PM
Hello everyone!! I'm so glad I found this place. :cool: I am in search for a female
cavalier king Charles spaniel puppy, prefer a ruby or tri color. Looking for pet quality as a companion pet. I hope to find some breeders in or around my area. Again, I'm so glad to hav found this place and look forward to speaking with some of you soon!! :rah:

Mycavyangels
9th April 2007, 09:43 PM
Hey welcome to cavaliertalk

Pumkin
9th April 2007, 09:44 PM
Thanks!! How are you?

Mycavyangels
9th April 2007, 09:46 PM
Thanks!! How are you?

iam good thankyou and u?

Pumkin
9th April 2007, 10:04 PM
I'm great. Just enjoying my day off and looking for a puppy. I believe I have found the perfect girl. She is only 3 weeks and will be ready May 14. She is a ruby with the thumb print on her head. So cute, she is my avatar, she still doesn't have her eyes open yet. Is $750 too much?

Mycavyangels
9th April 2007, 10:07 PM
I'm great. Just enjoying my day off and looking for a puppy. I believe I have found the perfect girl. She is only 3 weeks and will be ready May 14. She is a ruby with the thumb print on her head. So cute, she is my avatar, she still doesn't have her eyes open yet. Is $750 too much?

awww she is soooo cute :) if u want a healthy puppy its sometimes worth paying the price!

Pumkin
9th April 2007, 10:09 PM
Yes, I do in fact want to get a healthy puppy and not from a puppy mill. Here's the link to the lady selling these puppies in my area, let me know what you think. Thanks..

Mycavyangels
9th April 2007, 10:17 PM
Look alright to me does she show her dogs?

Pumkin
9th April 2007, 10:19 PM
I don't know. I guess I could ask her.

Bruce H
10th April 2007, 01:25 AM
I looked at the web site; don't know that breeder. I recognized the initials AKC; I assume they stand for American Kennel Club, but I would ask the question. The other two registries I don't recognize. Have you asked for copies of of the health clearances on the parents by certified specialists? For example, you need heart clearances on both parents by a cardiologist, not a vet.

I don't know what prices are like in Arkansas, but here in Minnesota $750 would be cheap, REALLY cheap. If you go to www.ckcsc.org, there is one breeder listed; there may be other breeders close by in neighboring states. Don't be in too much of a hurry.

Pumkin
10th April 2007, 01:40 AM
Thanks Bruce for that info. I will look into it. I did talk with her today on the phone. She seemed to really know her stuff. They come fully registered with AKC and pedigree. I'm still looking for more breeders close by. $750 is just a little too much but if I can get a healthy pup, it would be worth it.

cavalicious
10th April 2007, 04:10 AM
Good luck on your search for your puppy, that sure is the easy part! Now when that pupper you've been waiting for for so long comes home, thats when the hard part kicks in! Just kidding ;)

Pumkin
10th April 2007, 04:31 AM
hah yeah.. I'm sure that is a hard part.. Potty training, teaching it all sorts of things. I know I've heard that having a puppy is like having a baby. But once you get past that pup stage thats when the fun kicks it. :)

gramercy girl
10th April 2007, 05:13 PM
wow, i don't think i've ever seen a ruby w/ a thumbprint!!

bruce is right, don't be in a hurry and definitely talk to someone listed on ckcsc.org.


icon_welcome

Holly
10th April 2007, 06:23 PM
I would be very careful and do a lot of reserach and reading up before you buy a puppy. $750.00 seems REALLY inexpensive... beore I knew anything about finding a good breeder, I bought a puppy that I had to have put to sleep 3 days later due to a sever heart defect. Needless to say, after a lot of heartbreak and money on vet bills that I never recovered, I did my homework and found a reputable breeder who certified everything. Don't rush into it...although you may find an adorable puppy that you bond with, do your homework so you don't end up in a terrible situation down the road....

Pumkin
10th April 2007, 06:45 PM
wow, i don't think i've ever seen a ruby w/ a thumbprint!!

icon_welcome


OH really, So maybe this little girl is full of luck then... :) This is the pic of the little girl I might get. Which colors usually have the thumbprint? I though it was just some do and some don't.

http://img184.imageshack.us/img184/7522/rubygirlau1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

arasara
12th April 2007, 04:36 AM
I took a look at the website. . . you may want to delete that from your post because we're not allowed to mention specific breeders or specific breeder websites on this board at all.

I would personally be VERY wary of this breeder. It doesn't say how many cavaliers she has - why does she have 3 litters so close together?

Why doesn't she have something that talks about HER dogs specifically? I'd want to know more about the parents.

And how come she mentions NOTHING about potential health problems with cavaliers? Do these babies come with a health guarantee? As you know some cavaliers can inherit awful conditions that can seriously alter their lifestyle and cost you a LOT of money. If you get a dog that develops a luxating patella that needs surgery your dog price will jump from $700 to $2200 easily. I know a person who got a dog from somebody who did no health testing and her dog unfortunately turned out to be a genetic nightmare. ;(

At the very least the parents should have cardiac clearence from a board certified cardiologist and I see no mention of that anywhere on her site.

Anyways, my advice in this situation is not to rush anything and to take your time. If you get a healthy cavalier he or she could easily live to be 14+ years old.. if you divide all the years they should live by how much you paid in the beginning, it really doesn't add up to be that much :flwr:

Also it's important to remember that during the first year of a puppy's life they cost A LOT of money. From shot visits, to spay/neuter, worming, fecal check or should your puppy get sick - they cost A LOT.

They are totally worth it though! :dogwlk: Good luck!!

animalcraker
12th April 2007, 11:13 AM
I agree with arasara there are some huge red flags with the breeders site that say run away as fast as posible.

There is no information about any of the parents, some of which are not up to standards IMHO just looking at the pictures. The fact that the breeder takes paypal is very scary, it shouldn't be easy to buy a puppy and definetly shouldn't be something that you can just charge on a credit card. She metions of 4 breedings, 3 of which are less than 1 month apart! She also makes no mention of any showing or testing that she does with her dogs. Also ACA and UABR are what is comonlly reffred to as "puppymill registries", they will register whatever you want with no history of a puppies bloodlines. As of right now the AKC is the only "reputible" registry that we have in america, but it in no way gaurentees the health or quality of a puppy.

$750 is an extremeely low price for a cavalier. The average price for a good pet quality puppy is $1500-$2000. Honestly if you can really afford the $750, then can you afford all the expenses of owning a dog? It's very costly to own a dog, especially puppies that need vet check-ups, booster shots, dewormings, etc.. It may be in your best interest and your future puppy's best interest to wait untill you can afford the finacial burden of a puppy.

Also puppies of any breed should never be bought just based on what color they are. The white markings on a ruby is quite common and a flaw, as sated by the AKC standard "Faults - Heavy ticking on Blenheims or Tricolors, white marks on Rubies or Black and Tans." It can very easily take up to 3 years to get a puppy from a good breeder, this is not something that should be rushed into.

Holly
12th April 2007, 06:06 PM
I agree, too... the Paypal thing was a red flag to me... I completely understand what it's like to fall in love with a puppy that is less expensive and think that you will be one of the lucky ones and that somehow end up with a healthy puppy! But, trust me, it is not worth it... I went through so much heartache with a sick puppy (heart defect) and to have to put him to sleep 3 days later was horrible...it's supposed to be a happy time when you get a new puppy!! Not to mention that I probably spent about another $1000.00 on vet bills trying to save him. The "breeder" refunded the cost of the puppy, but not the vet bills as there wasn't a health guarranty and he was obviously a shady character. The reputable breeders I contacted said I should have returned the puppy as soon as I realized he had a heart problem, but I just couldn't do that not knowing what would happen to the puppy. I figured the breeder would try to sell him to someone else or do who knows what with him. Now I have Oliver and he is just great and the breeder was wonderful....but I learned a very hard, expensive lesson. I would hate to see this happen to someone else. It breaks my heart that people are so greedy that they treat animals like this. Apparently, there isn't really much that can be done as long as they are not technically breaking the law.

Pumkin
13th April 2007, 12:54 AM
I just want to chat about the breed and everyone be happy of MY choice..

Holly
13th April 2007, 02:15 AM
Certainly didn't mean to offend... just relaying my story! I hope things go well for you! Good luck! :)

Karlin
13th April 2007, 02:24 AM
Pumkin:

I know you may be upset but please listen to what people are saying. And understand that while this website IS here to talk and share about cavaliers, the single most IMPORTANT thing this website and community is here for is to cherish and protect a breed that is under serious health threats due to unscrupulous breeding practices of backyard breeders -- and puppy mills -- one is as bad as the other. And often the people who say they are small breeders are simply fronts for puppy mills. Puppy millers typically set up lots of small websites saying they breed one or maybe two breeds. You google around and find the same PO Box is selling 17 different breeds.

Many people here have been down the route you are going and know what prices a breeder should be charging and what the breeder should be saying. They are telling you things now to prevent what could be real unhappiness further down the line as well as the acquisition of a puppy that will have very expensive health problems (in this breed you tend to get what you pay for as healthy breeding *costs more*). There are many unscrupulous breeders out there and the site you have posted raises some of the more typical red flags about a backyard breeder who is NOT breeding for health or conformation.

One of the red flags would be the price of these puppies -- this is simply too low for a breeder who is doing any proper health testing of her breeding animals (this is LESS than what many breed rescues often charge for dogs they take from puppy mills for example -- it is just way too low and I'd really be suspicious that they may not be breeding at all, but brokering puppy mill dogs instead). Also: the fact that they register with other registries than the AKC indicates they are trying to dupe buyers into thinking the dogs are more valuable than they are. The other registries are known as trash/bogus registries -- anyone can register a dog there. Sure they give you 'papers' but they are worthless. Typically what this type of breeder does is say they ALSO register SOME dogs with the AKC but actually don't register any of them there -- they add it in to their website to make themselves look more legitimate. Or, they have one or two dogs that could produce litters they CULD register with the AKC but suddenly you will be told the AKC ones cost more. As Bruce -- a very reputable, health focused, experienced breeder says -- you need to ask if YOUR puppy has AKC registry. I am willing to bet it probably does not.

Some of the other things you have said this breeder told you are all the red flags that indicate a backyard (unscrupulous) breeder at best, I'm afraid -- that's why Bruce rightly suggests people take their time and investigate a potential breeder carefully.

Whether they are verified on PayPal means nothing -- I mean, I am verified on PayPal and that wouldn't mean I am a reputable breeder! Whether they have their dogs cardiac tested, test for eyes, hips, knees, potentially also screen for syringomyelia, and follow the well-established cardiac breeding protocol for the breed is what really matters.

Have they discussed with you the fact that, because of breeders who do not tecardiac test their breeding animals and follow the heart protocols, statistically, half of all cavaliers will go into heart problems by age five? That if they are not cardiac testing and following the heart protocol, your puppy will have a much higher chance of acquiring a heart murmur by age five and dying before age 10 from congestive heart failure? Have they mentioned that the neurological condition syringomyelia seems to affect at least half of all cavaliers, and told you how they are addressing this in their breeding programme? Have they discussed any health issues pertaining to the breed at all with you? A reputable breeder would have done all these things.

Did they tell you that thumbprint on your ruby's head is actually a white cosmetic mismarking on a ruby which ideally should be completely red, not the thumbprint that IS considered desireable, on a blenheim (red and white) cavalier?

Here's a good link for learning about what to look for in a breeder and what to ask:

http://board.cavaliertalk.com/showthread.php?t=11335

People here know this breed and (often through sad and costly personal experience) know what to look out for from puppy mill and backyard breeder vendors. They are trying to give you support and advice now that you may later regret not having listened to. At least have a read through the link I offer above and think through this carefully before making a commitment to these puppy vendors. Consider too the overall costs to you of caring for a breed that MAY have expensive health issues and is more likely to have them sooner if purchased from a breeder who isn't health testing and breeding carefully for health. A single visit and testing at a cardiologist for a dog with a heart murmur could run you the cost of the puppy you are talking about -- and that will only be the start of things. Buying a puppy at higher cost from a reputable breeder vastly increases the chances that you won;t be paying out those costs within the next couple of years -- and maybe never. You never save money by 'buying cheap' with dogs. :thmbsup:

Cathy T
13th April 2007, 02:53 AM
I can't add one thing to Karlin's post! She has said it all. I personally am offended that you are making a personal attack on "us" who have researched breeders and truly care about the best interest of this breed. Are you not listening to what is being said? You asked for advice. I'm sorry the advice doesn't suit you....surely you will do what you want. Did you not read that Holly had to have her puppy put to sleep because of a health defect from an unreputable breeder? Do you really want to put yourself through that kind of heartache? I don't think so. Take a look at some of the health issues being discussed in the health section of this board. Are you prepared to deal with sm, mvd, luxating patellas, dry eye/curly coat? If not....then do not purchase from this "breeder". The intial outlay of cash to purchase a Cavalier is nothing compared to what it will cost you over the life of the dog.

The average price for a Cavalier who has been health tested and bred responsibily by a reputable breeder in the U S is $2,000. If that is more than you are willing to pay for a healthy puppy...what can I say?

WoodHaven
13th April 2007, 03:06 AM
Well.. I'm really shocked to read some of these "statements". I mean you guys are crazy to honestly think that the only healthy PET quality puppy is going to have to be more then $2000. Never would i have expected to join this place and have myself as well as all the "unhealthy puppies" cut down!!! When I joined this place it was to meet others w/ the breed and chat and meet others, not be told what I should do and to spend a hell of a lot on a dog. I would NEVER spend $2000 on a dog simply b/c there are dogs in shelters right now going to be put to sleep b/c so many of YOU ALL are buying these expensive dogs and not giving the others a chance..
I will say this... I have spoke w/ that lady about her dogs. She is VERY nice she only has the 2 males and 3 female grown dogs. She keeps them in her house, and the puppies do come w/ a 1yr health garentee, pedigree, and s/w up to date. She doesn't show her dogs b/c she has them as pet dogs, you know she loves them for what they are, NOT what kind of money they can give her from "showing". Her and her husband are retired and paypal just makes it easy to transfer money from one bank account to another. It dosn't mean I am getting "ripped off" b/c Her and i both are verified members of paypal. I am getting this adorable little girl simply b/c i know she is the one for me.. I've been in search for a dog since last summer and have finally found what i want. I was hoping to join here and meet some nice people I could chat w/ but unfortunitly, that's not going to happen. You all have nice lives paying outragious prices for a pet dog.. LMFAO
I feel l



750 dollars would be considered inexpensive for a mixed breed here. Cavalier breeders who charge 2000 or so and test are more likely to breed healthy pets-- AND if they don't they are more likely to help out if they did breed a dog with health issues.

No one said you had to spend a heck of a lot for a purebred cavalier... But if you can't afford more than 750 dollars -- I'd choose a different breed. The health issues that this breed can have are devistating (both emotionally and financially).

People who are breeding JUST for pets are usually doing the breed a misservice. THERE are literally millions of very nice dogs in shelters. IF one is breeding they should AT LEAST be trying to improve the breed.... not increase the number of pets.

THERE was another breeder who only had a few dogs in his house (Pennsylvania puppymill bust of february 2006) HE Had an outbuilding that house the other breeding dogs (over 100). He had a lot of people convinced he was a good breeder (and he at least showed a few of his dogs).

You sound young and hopeful -- You are speaking to hundreds of people who have ' been there -- done that '=== I am sorry you feel this board is picking on you...

Would you expect a rolex for 100 dollars???

I volunteer in cavalier rescue, we take in many of these "pet cavaliers" every year. People can't afford the health issues that these pups get. Check out www.cavalierrescueusa.org

WoodHaven
13th April 2007, 03:13 AM
Certainly didn't mean to offend... just relaying my story! I hope things go well for you! Good luck! :)


Holly, at least in my humble opinion, you didn't say anything to warrant an apology. You are trying to HELP someone who can't see the "bridge is out". I always try to educate-- even if I feel they aren't "getting it". I say, thanks for trying.

Bruce H
13th April 2007, 02:16 PM
I can see where you may have thought we were picking on you, but believe me we were not. In fact, we had your best interests at heart. No one here wants to see you have your heart broken if you happen to get a puppy with serious health issues. Can you get a healthy puppy from a puppy mill or BYB? Sure you can. But the problem is, the odds of that puppy being healthy and living a long life is significantly reduced because there is no health testing or thought that goes into the breeding.

Every now and then we get a call from someone in tears who bought a puppy from a mill or BYB and have problems (or worse) with with their puppy and ask us what to do. No one here wants to see you go through that. My wife Kris is also the rescue coordinator for CKCSC for Minnesota and we have had to deal with some of the dogs with health issues. Believe me, it's not fun having a dog with serious health issues.

I normally don't talk about cost, but I hope you don't think that by paying $2,000 for a puppy, you're making some breeder rich. I wish that I could make money, but it just doesn't happen; you don't want to know what our annual vet bills are, let alone all the other expenses associated with breeding responsibly and showing. It may sound like a cliche, but I really DO do it for the "love of the breed".

So anyway, if you do get a Cavalier, I hope it is healthy; from what I have read in your posts, it most definately will be happy! And join us here if you get one. I think you will find that everyone here is really great and there is a huge amount of combined knowledge. Regardless of where you get a puppy, people here will celebrate your successes and cry with you over your setbacks.

Pumkin
13th April 2007, 07:00 PM
Thanks, and I'm certain things will go well... I will take excellent care of my new baby and she will be spoiled to DEATH. lol =) I just hope that all this can be behind everyone and just be happy and I'll be happy and therefore, EVERYONE is happy..