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Om's Mom
16th April 2007, 05:00 AM
I was looking at various ads, wondering if the Idaho breeder is active and came across many odd and/or questionable ads.

Look what this site says about a 3yr soon to be in heat Blen that she traded for [another dog] ...quote from the website at [website deleted by Karlin]

[specific quote removed but woman offering dog for a few hundred dollars without papers]

One ad on Puppyfind was for an unborn dog!!!!! I wonder if this is common? I was surprised at all the questionable ads,sources and "breeders" who appeared on a google search.
And that certain Idaho breeder? I don't know, some odd ads for the area....Poor puppies.

I just had to vent.:swear: Thanks for listening.

Dorothy
Om's Mom. (Lucky Me!)

tsorningold
16th April 2007, 07:04 AM
That is so sad. That poor dog has a bleak future. She also looks like she has some serious eye issues going on in her left eye. That women obviously views her animals as property, to be bartered and traded.

These things are common will keep happening until people get it.
Someone will buy her to breed, because people will buy her puppies.
The other day we had a cavachon come in that the people had paid over $1100 for. She was 8wks old, loaded with worms and sporting an eye infection.
Personally I have nothing against the "designer breeds", there is a women locally who breeds goldendoodles and does rigorous testing on her potential parents and the parents previous generations far back. She breeds rarely and has provided several of her dogs to become candidates for therapy work and training programs where incarcerated adults train dogs for assisted living animals. She is a breeder who is an exception to the rule for many of these designer dogs.
Hopefully where ever she ends up she is spayed and cared for.

Laura&Lia
16th April 2007, 09:38 AM
So sad! I can't believe the explanation the person gives on the web!

This cutie don't deserve to be owned by someone like that person!

Karlin
16th April 2007, 11:46 AM
Hi all:

Please be sure to read the two posts at the top of the Getting Started section prefixed "Please Read" -- one is on posts and links that are acceptable and one is on understanding whether posts are potentially libellous.

I do not allow anyone selling dogs or any breeders that people have criticisms of to be directly linked to and identified.This is to protect YOU as well as me from a potentially costly lawsuit. Posting to an internet board is *the same* in legal terms as publishing an article in a newspaper and individuals and boards MUST follow the most cautious interpretation of international libel/defamation laws.

I've deleted the link and removed the direct quote as it too clearly identifies an individual. I know people feel rightly outraged by such things but we have to be very cautious in what is linked to and what is said so as not to clearly identify an individual and make implications that could be defamatory or libellous. :thmbsup:

Unfortunately the world remains full of such people though. Some are more obviously backyard breeders, brokers or puppy millers; the difficulty comes in the sharper ones who say all the right things in their websites -- eg our dogs live in our house and are raised with our family and our children, our dogs are health tested (but they cannot supply any proper certs though they may even say they are 'certified'); our dogs come with a health guarantee (most not worth the paper they are written on -- they either stipulate they will only 'take the puppy back' -- yeah, right -- they know you won't return it -- or guarantee pointless things like the puppy is 'heart murmur clear' at 8 weeks (well, yeah -- so are 99.9999% of puppies -- they don't get signs of MVD until at least a year old or older). They say their CKCS come 'from champion stock' (yeah -- many generations go -- EVERY cavalier comes from 'champion stock' at some point as the gene pool is so narrow) or even more suspicious: "imported champion stock" (that usully means poor quality puppy farm or BYB dogs from Ireland). Or my other favourite: "we don't show; we just breed pets for caring people so everyone can enjoy a cavalier" (that means: "we are backyard breeders who couldn't be bothered to follow health protocols which cost us money, or conformation as we know our poor quality cavaliers wouldn't pass muster for their looks or structure (that's why we cannot register our puppies with the CKCSC or AKC and use the bogus registries; the parents are such poor qulity dogs), and so we are happy to infiltrate the breed with poor genes and bad health problems in order to make money". The breeder who posted the outrageous post that was originally linked to says on her Texas website that they breed following all health clearances with a three year 'genetic warranty' (I bet: would LOVE to see what that is!) and offer 'registered' dogs (they are 'registered' with trash registry the CKC; totally meningless. I could register my cat there and they wouldn't care).

Inside Edition warned of exactly this type of breeder selling CKCS:

http://www.youtube.com/v/dNOoFyfTdoM

Yes, they all make me sick too.

Unfortunately we cannot name and shame them until they have been convicted of fraud, when a jury and judge have accepted beyond a resonable doubt that the person has indeed committed crimes, as Idaho breeder Elizabeth Simmons ) who also goes by Clare Simmons/Sorenson and other names) was.

http://board.cavaliertalk.com/showthread.php?t=13258


A breeder of Cavalier King Charles Spaniels will serve two months of home detention and another 22 months on probation for selling a dog to a breeder without a license from the U.S. Department of Agriculture, U.S. Attorney Tom Moss announced today.

Elizabeth Simmons, also known as Jolene Sorenson, operated her business, Royal Family Cavaliers, from her home in Garden City, advertising primarily on the Internet. At one point she had 64 dogs at the home, which was approximately 1000 square feet in size.

Simmons pleaded guilty in July to the misdemeanor charge. In sentencing her last Wednesday, U.S. District Judge Edward J. Lodge commented that "it's not the biggest case, but it had a lot of feelings behind it." He also ordered Simmons to pay $4,500 in restitution to the buyers of several of her dogs.

A USDA license is required in order for a person to sell dogs to breeders on a wholesale basis. According to Simmons’ plea agreement, in February 2005 she sold a male Cavalier King Charles Spaniel to licensed USDA dog breeders A. & L. Bruna for $1,800, with the promise that the dog could be registered with the Kennel Club of England. Simmons did not provide the Brunas with documentation to support registration of the dog, nor could the dog have been registered since only dogs born and bred in England can be registered.

When Simmons did live in England, in 2004, she was investigated for defrauding purchasers of her dogs and creating fraudulent health certificates.

Moss commended the Garden City Police Department for its extensive work on the case. "As responsible dog breeders well know, there are good reasons for these rules,” he said. "When someone breaks them, law enforcement and the justice system take it seriously."

CONTACT: JEAN McNEIL
Public Information Officer
GEORGE BREITSAMETER
Assistant United States Attorney
208 334-1211
Source: U.S. Department of Justice Press Release - Jan 23, 2007

And I know of people who have dealt with her and believed she was the nicest person and a reputable breeder of 'champion dogs' who did health testing and raised ll her dogs at home in her house. All 64 of them, inpounded by Idaho police:

http://www.pet-abuse.com/cases/5117/

INVESTIGATE BREEDERS THROUGHLY, ESPECIALLY ANYONE SELLING CKCS OVER THE INTERNET. BE ESPECIALLY WARY OF LOW-COST CAVALIERS. AS THE POST ABOVE DEMONSTRATES, THERE ARE ALWAYS REASONS FOR THIS.

YOU have the power to change the situation for these wonderful dogs by NEVER buying from people like this.

And yes, I believe Ms Simmons is selling dogs again from other websites with much the same content as her old ones, but a new name; she was not prevented from selling dogs in her sentence. In the US, do NOT buy dogs from anyone in Idaho (or anywhere!) without checking them out with parent clubs, the CKCSC or ACKCSC. No other registration is acceptable for a reputable breeder and proper registration is only the start to determining if the breeder breeds responsibly.

Om's Mom
16th April 2007, 03:40 PM
Karlin, Thanks for housecleaning my post:v*cuum: and my apologies that you needed to. I've since read the cautions you posted. :sl*p:

I'm wondering if there is there a list of accepted, legitimate registrations for the Cavalier King Charles Spaniel?

Feeling abashed,:o
Dorothy

Cathy T
16th April 2007, 04:42 PM
Feeling abashed


Don't feel bad....you were obviously outraged (and with good reason!). There are a lot of sick people out there and our gorgeous breed is becoming more and more in danger from these people.

Om's Mom
16th April 2007, 07:14 PM
" our gorgeous breed is becoming more and more in danger from these people".


:xctly: It truly is. Thank, Kathy.


...Dorothy...