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ann
28th April 2007, 03:27 PM
Ellie is now 5 months old. We have tried and tried to stop her pulling on her lead.....As soon as she puts any tension on the lead I stop walking until the lead slackens, then I praise her and walk on.....This just isn't working.........have also tried the changing directions move.....
She is very food motivated, so I can't understand why I am failing to stop her pulling......grrrrr its so frustrating..........can anyone help please???

TKC
28th April 2007, 06:08 PM
The reward for loose lead walking should be the movement forward. Maybe try saying nothing when you are praising and just waiting for slack and then move forward. I say this because she could think the praise was for some other behaviour, such as a look at you or something else that she is doing Also make sure that when you stop that you are not pulling her back. If you are sure that you are not pulling her back then check that no one else is doing this when walking her.

Loose lead walking training works because the dog makes the decision to slacken the lead. If you are making that decision then you will have to make that decision forever and your dog will rely this. The cue for slacken the lead should be the tension created on the harness or the collar.

Make sure you use the same walking harness or collar (recommend harness) each time. Don't swap these, keep consistency. Same goes for the lead, reasons explained below.

Also check that everyone walks her the same way and that no one is letting her off lead or on a long lead free.

If using a flexi go get a normal lead so that it is the same length everytime. Sometimes when flexi's are used the dog gets confused as to how much lead he or she has to work with.

You can also start to train some loose lead games such as throwing a ball or food out while she is on lead, don't let her pull you to the food and don't pull her back just anchor yourself. The food should be thrown just out of her reach. Wait for slack and then let her go get it. You are only looking for slight slack to start with. Let her go immediatly the slack happens.

Does she pull worse in some areas over others?
Does she get really excited when you take out her lead, harness, your shoes, jacket etc?
Does she fly through the open door?

Lucy's mum
28th April 2007, 08:48 PM
If you continue to have problems have a go with a Halti harness or similar harness. N.B. not the Halti head collar as their noses are too short.

With these you attach the lead to a ring at the front of the harness, approx in the middle of the chest, rather than on the collar or on the back as in a standard harness. So if the dog pulls he finds himself turned round and facing the other way.....confusing.....and the penny drops that if the lead is loose then he goes forwards, if he pulls then he gets turned around and goes the wrong way. It worked with my Henry. He used to walk beautifully then as he got older he got too excited when out, but this has calmed him down.

Good luck.

Kodee
28th April 2007, 09:19 PM
The reward for loose lead walking should be the movement forward. Maybe try saying nothing when you are praising and just waiting for slack and then move forward. I say this because she could think the praise was for some other behaviour I see me needing to take this advice for lots of areas of training - I tend to yak too much to my dogs thus creating so much confusion not to mention teaching them to "tune" me out.


Make sure you use the same walking harness or collar (recommend harness) each time. Don't swap these
I never thought of that. Kodee for a 5mth puppy is above average on a collar (which I use for quick in/out potty breaks). But sometimes I change my mind and decide to let her go up the street or around the block. Since she pulls more on collar than puppia, from reading your advice, I realize the pulling does increase if I have let her go on the collar too many times in a row.

Not my thread but I appreciate and learned from your answer too - thanks!

laram
28th April 2007, 09:34 PM
I tried the stop/start thing with Sammy for weeks when he was about 5 months, but I'm sorry to say I gave up in the end. I was completely determined, but every day we would hardly get out the door. We both got sooo frustrated, and Sammy would cry and shake with nervous energy. He just never seemed to get it. So I bought an easy walker harness. Problem more or less solved. Of course, it would be nice if he could walk well with a normal collar, but I'm settling for the practical option.

The problem I have now is that we're in training classes, and I'm trying to get him to heel. He's ok on a quiet street, but at the training he's just too distracted and behaves as though he hardly hears me no matter what treats I have! :rolleyes:

Kodee
28th April 2007, 09:42 PM
I tried the stop/start thing with Sammy for weeks when he was about 5 months, but I'm sorry to say I gave up in the end. I was completely determined, but every day we would hardly get out the door. We both got sooo frustrated, and Sammy would cry and shake with nervous energy. He just never seemed to get it. So I bought an easy walker harness. Problem more or less solved. Of course, it would be nice if he could walk well with a normal collar, but I'm settling for the practical option.

The problem I have now is that we're in training classes, and I'm trying to get him to heel. He's ok on a quiet street, but at the training he's just too distracted and behaves as though he hardly hears me no matter what treats I have! :rolleyes:My lab was a puller and I used the gentle lead on her. Same issues as you in class too. Trust, many do settle down with maturity. OK it took our lab about 2 yrs, but she got there and eventually was a nice walker! :dogwlk:

laram
28th April 2007, 10:01 PM
Nice to hear! :)

ann
28th April 2007, 11:54 PM
Thanks everyone for lots of good advice.... Lucy's mum...does the halti just attach at the front? I have just been looking online, and there are different ones. Some seem to attach at the front, and also on the back, and some say you need a special lead as well. I dont want to buy another one that is wrong. I have two different ones now, one is called the 'stop pull' it just makes her worse . I really dont mind buying another one, but want to be sure of getting the correct one......thanks again everyone.....

Karlin
29th April 2007, 12:18 AM
If you are going to get a front clipping harness, I suggest the Sense-ible or the Easy Walk harness. However just be aware this isn't *training* your dog to walk on a loose lead. It will just eliminate her ability to pull.

Five months is really quite young; she really is only just beginning to learn, so you may be expecting a little too much too soon that she not be pulling at all. She's still only a puppy! Most pppies can only just now start to put together the idea of walking on a loose lead and your message to the dog needs to be really consistent -- as Tara notes, it is very easy to be giving the wrong signals (I have been there many times myself!) and that is why a calss where you can work with an instructor is beeter than trying this only at home. So I'd really suggest joining a class to teach this and other cues as well -- not one where they want you to jerk the dog or do corrections on her neck, but a rewards/motivation based class. It's a LOT more fun to do all this in a class plus your pup will get valuable socialiasing to many different dogs and people! :)

ann
29th April 2007, 10:17 AM
I did try the 'easy walk' harness and I think she pulled even more. We started classes 3 weeks ago, but we havnt covered 'walking' yet. She will sit on command....down...roll over....and not touch a piece of cheese put right in front of her nose, until I say OK.....
I was worried that the pulling on the lead would be hard to correct the older she gets.....so perhaps I am expecting too much too soon. Hopefully walking will be shown in one of the classes soon.
I do know that its down to me to teach her and with all the dogs I have owned before, I have acheived this without a problem. Ellie is a very determined young lady. She will be our last dog as we are now pensioners.

Kodee
29th April 2007, 08:10 PM
I did try the 'easy walk' harness and I think she pulled even more. We started classes 3 weeks ago, but we havnt covered 'walking' yet. She will sit on command....down...roll over....and not touch a piece of cheese put right in front of her nose, until I say OK.....
I was worried that the pulling on the lead would be hard to correct the older she gets.....so perhaps I am expecting too much too soon. Hopefully walking will be shown in one of the classes soon.
I do know that its down to me to teach her and with all the dogs I have owned before, I have acheived this without a problem. Ellie is a very determined young lady. She will be our last dog as we are now pensioners.I did not mean to imply that age just makes it vanish - but rather with your consistency they get the point its useless to pull. You dont want to get her de-sensitized to the feeling. You sound like you are describing Kodee's boyfriend, a cavalier same age as her. She just commented on how nice Kodee walks and wanted to know what I did - not much I told her, its her personality. Your using all the tricks I have read - just keep at it, you have a fiesty playful lil male - something will click if you keep it up.

Lucy's mum
29th April 2007, 08:55 PM
Ann - the halti harness has a ring at the chest and also a ring on the back. (It also has a safety clip that attaches to the collar.) The instructions suggest that you use a long lead and have one end attached to the chest ring and the other to the back ring then you can use a sort of 2 handed effort to guide the dog. Or you can just attach one lead to the chest ring...which is what I do. Nice and simple. I chose this harness as it was easy to get hold of in our local shop, and I am happy with it.

Karlin
29th April 2007, 10:37 PM
She sounds like she's doing very well in her class! :)

Are you sure you had the Easy Walk, or that you had it on correctly? It is physically impossible for a dog to pull on those harnesses -- they simply get turned around to face you. I just can't imagine how she could pull on one of these as there's no point of resistance. I have seen Tara and Lisa use these in their training classes on huge dogs that pull and they just physically cannot do it with the lead attaching to a ring on their chest. Just wondering if you had it fitted correctly by a trainer (maybe have your class trainer check it?) or maybe are using something with a similar name?

But again: you are really talking about a very young dog that is still a puppy and only just learning. I think once you start working on this in your class setting, you will have an easier time training her to walk on a loose lead. :)

Of the two below, I prefer the Sense-ible mainly because the lead doesn't swing and the clasp doesn't bang on the dog's chest. Also the bottom clasp is designed not to end up right in the dog's armpit. Other than that they are very similar.

Easy Walk:

http://www.premier.com/images/ezwalk-halter-green275.jpg

Sense-ible:

https://secure14.worldaxxs.net/ssl.puplife.com/plugins/MivaMerchants/graphics/00000001/new-senseible2.jpg

Lisa_T
12th May 2007, 01:00 AM
I've found that the Easy Walk considerably lessened the ability to pull, but doesn't kill it altogether if the dog is bound and determined to pull. Whatever, it does make stopping a pull so much easier.

I think there's something to be said for the age argument too. Holly used to be a chronic puller. Then at two or so, she improved. By the time Amber arrived last autumn, Holly walked on-leash like an angel puppy 95% of the time. No tension on even a short lead, and bang at heel. I think part of it was using the Easy Walk. Amber, at ten months, is improving, but she'll still take us for a walk if she has a chance.

ann
12th May 2007, 09:54 AM
My harness is not the Sense-ible easy walk......I can't find it in any of our local shops, or online ( only in medium).....can anyone help please..... Ellie weighs 5kilos so I think she will need the small one :xfngr:

Karlin
12th May 2007, 10:40 AM
You can get the Sense-ible harness from www.dogtrainingireland.ie in any size. Send a PM to TKC on this board (Tara -- she and LisaW on the board run DTI) and she can arrange to get one to you.

vivi
15th May 2007, 06:38 AM
Hello
At www.mixangels.com (go in under företaget) you can buy som good lead and collars helping a pulling dog.

TKC
18th May 2007, 10:57 PM
Hi Ann,

Let me know how the SENSE-ible.. works you should have it soon :)

ann
19th May 2007, 10:09 AM
Hi Tara, it hasn't arrived yet. I am really looking forward to trying it.:xfngr:

shippers
23rd May 2007, 05:20 PM
Ann, can I ask which puppy classes you've been attending? I live in Ormskirk and I remember one of your posts saying your in Southport. I've looked at West Lancs Canine Centre but really not sure where is best. Hope this is ok.

ann
23rd May 2007, 11:04 PM
Its at Scarsabrick village hall......think its called...Southport Alsation training club. I will look later and make sure. They are very good :)

mishmosh
25th May 2007, 12:16 AM
She sounds like she's doing very well in her class! :)

Are you sure you had the Easy Walk, or that you had it on correctly? It is physically impossible for a dog to pull on those harnesses -- they simply get turned around to face you. I just can't imagine how she could pull on one of these as there's no point of resistance. I have seen Tara and Lisa use these in their training classes on huge dogs that pull and they just physically cannot do it with the lead attaching to a ring on their chest. Just wondering if you had it fitted correctly by a trainer (maybe have your class trainer check it?) or maybe are using something with a similar name?

But again: you are really talking about a very young dog that is still a puppy and only just learning. I think once you start working on this in your class setting, you will have an easier time training her to walk on a loose lead. :)

Of the two below, I prefer the Sense-ible mainly because the lead doesn't swing and the clasp doesn't bang on the dog's chest. Also the bottom clasp is designed not to end up right in the dog's armpit. Other than that they are very similar.

Easy Walk:

http://www.premier.com/images/ezwalk-halter-green275.jpg

Sense-ible:



https://secure14.worldaxxs.net/ssl.puplife.com/plugins/MivaMerchants/graphics/00000001/new-senseible2.jpg

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/601944-EASY-WALK-HARNESS-MED_W0QQitemZ120118296132QQihZ002QQcategoryZ20746Q QrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem

There are 2 harnesses on the market in the UK called Easy Walk which may be causing confusion. I saw them side by side in the pet shop! My dog is a big puller, I'll get him the one you suggest with the ring at the front! I saw one on Dog Borstal on BBC3 which worked wonders and sold it to me!

TKC
25th May 2007, 08:03 PM
SENSE-ible has shipped to you Ann. Size small. It should be the right size, if not let me know can ship you the teeny one but generally cav's are a small.

We ship SENSE-ible harnesses to Ireland and the UK. We stock them direct from the supplier.

The difference between SENSE-ible and Easy Walk is as follows:

The SENSE-ible is produced by a US company called Softouch Concepts. They are the original inventors and have the product patented. This means that the sizing is good and the information that you get with the product is also good. The backup returns policies etc are also excellent.

The Easy Walk is from Premier, the company who make the gentle leader. Another US company. This is NOT the Easy Walk in the Ebay auction I would not recommend the one in the Ebay auction for a cavalier as it is uncomfortable and will rub and wear the dogs skin.

The SENSE-ible has a front ring which connects to your lead but can also connect to the collar.



The Easy Walk has a front ring also but the front chest strap also tightens when the dog pulls. Some dogs react differently to this. Some dogs do not like when the strap tightens. It doesn't hurt the dog. This can be useful for skinny dogs.

We like the SENSE-ible. We have sold over 100 of them with 2 returns. The first was returned because the dog chewed through it. The second was returned because the front buckle snapped when a dog was on a really long lead, hit the end of the lead and the pressure on the harness was too much and it gave way. This was a large dog.

Hope that helps.

ann
26th May 2007, 10:07 AM
Easy walk harness still not arrived, I am really looking forward to trying it :)

TKC
26th May 2007, 04:18 PM
It's the SENSE-ible that I have shipped. The front connection that works well. You should have it soon. Let me know when it arrives by posting here.

Karlin
26th May 2007, 06:39 PM
It's usually about 5 days to a week for me to get packages from the UK so probably the same going the other direction. :)

TKC
29th May 2007, 01:15 PM
Any sign of it yet Ann?

mishmosh
29th May 2007, 02:00 PM
http://www.premier.com/images/ezwalk-halter-green275.jpg

I bought a Gentle Leader Easy Walk from eBay in small. It fits my dog well around the torso (17 inches) , but it seems ever so loose around the chest where the ring area is and hangs very low. I cant get him a smaller size as it won't fit! I'm not sure what to do!

Anyway, it did work. It is impossible for a dog to pull on this harness! It is a bit of a strange sensation when walking,the lead jerks!

Holly
29th May 2007, 02:34 PM
I just bought the SENSE-ible harness for Oliver after reading about it here. I tried it yesterday for the first time and---NO pulling on it! It's great and doesn't seem to bother Oliver one bit. I think it will make our walks much more enjoyable...it does feel a bit strange walking him on it, though, because of how it attaches inthe front. I think I will get used to that.

The trainer we did obedience classes with recommended the training collar with the prongs on it, but that just seems and looks cruel to me- especially after all the info on SM. I am really thanful that you all recommended this harness- it seems so much more comfortable and humane! :)

ann
29th May 2007, 07:41 PM
Tara the harness arrived today, but it is on the big size for her. I have adjusted it to the smallest it will go, but it all pulls one way when she is wearing it. Even worse if I attach it to her collor. I measured Ellie and she measures 17in round her girth just behind her legs, and 7in from just behind her leg to the centre of her chest. Her neck is 10in. She is about 11 - 12 pounds. Of course at 6 months I know she will still grow a lot.
My hubby says keep it and she will grow into it. I just dont know what to do?? I dont want to buy the xtra small and in a month or so it wont fit, and yet this one is too big now......:confused: . Advise needed please :confused:

Holly
29th May 2007, 08:55 PM
Ann-Oliver weighs 23 lbs and I have found that on him the harness seems a bit big in the front because it pulls more to one side, too. I also have adjusted it as much as I can. It's a size small.

TKC
31st May 2007, 02:01 PM
Have been in touch with Ann :)

Sent you 2 more harnesses a XS SENSE-ible and a Premier Easy Walk front connection.

One should work.