PDA

View Full Version : No AKC Papers



VISION1t
22nd May 2007, 06:37 PM
Hi Everyone,
I've done some research, but I just wanted to get your opinion on purchasing a puppy w/ no AKC papers.

Please let me know your thoughts. Thanks

Karlin
22nd May 2007, 06:41 PM
Don't even consider it unless the dog has CKCSC papers instead or papers from the Canadian club and the breeder is a full-fledged show breeder breeding for health. If they don;t register, there will be NO WAY they do one iota of proper health testing. :thmbsup:

Did you see the advice in the finding a breeder section? There are some good links there for both general and cavalier-specific information and they list all the questions to ask, the health clearances you want to see, and the registrations the breeder should have. Also warns about the many bogus registries used by backyard breeders and puppy farms.

http://board.cavaliertalk.com/showthread.php?t=11335

Crittercall
23rd May 2007, 10:46 PM
I consider myself very fortunate to have a Cavalier who was born before AKC came in and the breed started getting more popular, leading to more puppy mill dogs, backyard breeders, etc. I do have CKCSC papers on her, though, although I never registered her. She was born with a birth defect, no chance that I would ever breed her, so why bother IMO.

Tibby was a rescue direct from a puppy mill so I definately don't have papers on her!

Sasha (and my first shihtzu) were/are AKC dogs but again, without the desire to breed I didn't feel any urgency to register them. They are all my girls and I don't need a sheet of paper to see that Wallis has a wonderful lineage, that Tibby has some issues but has the same laid back personality, and that Sasha is pure shihtzu.

Karlin
23rd May 2007, 10:52 PM
The issue is different though if you are buying a puppy from a breeder. Any breeder not registering litters when selling puppies to pet homes is definitely not going to be a reputable breeder. Most likely the dogs aren't registered because the parents are not registerable because of unknown background or themselves again poor quality/unregisterable.

Registering dogs makes the breeder more formally responsible because they are verifying the lineage of the dog and are then traceable as the breeder of a given dog. They must at least be following the club's rules and if a reputable breeder, should either be showing or participating in other events under the legitimate registry's ageis, whether field sports, agility, obedience, etc.

BTW if you have CKCSC and AKC papers surely these dogs are all therefore registered? In Ireland 'papers' are the same as registered pedigree. The breeder does the registration, not the buyer.

WoodHaven
23rd May 2007, 10:58 PM
Hi Everyone,
I've done some research, but I just wanted to get your opinion on purchasing a puppy w/ no AKC papers.

Please let me know your thoughts. Thanks


The big question becomes "WHY don't they have papers"? It isn't expensive or difficult.

Crittercall
23rd May 2007, 11:30 PM
Wallis's breeder registered the litter. I would consider her to be one of the best when it comes to Cavaliers. She's been breeding them since at least the early '80's, judges shows, shows dogs, etc. I don't think anyone could find fault with her credentials.

WoodHaven
23rd May 2007, 11:41 PM
There were a handful of breeders who stuck to their guns and swore never to use the AKC.
It just is a red flag when you aren't offered any papers.

Karlin
23rd May 2007, 11:50 PM
Maybe I'm just confused about what you are saying -- if Wallis's breeder registered the litter with a proper registry, then she is registered and has papers. You don't do anything after that point to further register her. If the other dogs were 'AKC' theycan only be AKC if the breeder registered them -- and hence again, they are registered.

As I mentioned in my initial reply, it doesn't matter that the dog isn't registered AKC as long as it is legitimately registered to a recognised, not a bogus, registry. For cavaliers in the US, that would be AKC or CKCSC. In Ireland, IKC, in Canada, CKC, in UK, the KC, etc. No reputable breeder would be homing unregistered puppies or puppies registered with the bogus registries (which are meaningless anyway).

Rescue dogs are of course a different matter. I only occasionally get papers. I do usually give these to the new owners though some rescues don't in case they are misused.

And of course an important point is that a proper registration is only the very beginning of finding a reptuable breeder. Just because the dog has a proper registration does not mean the breeder ir a reputable breeder or breeds for health or conformation, but it is a basic starting point. :thmbsup:

WoodHaven
24th May 2007, 12:08 AM
In the AKC-- the breeder registers the litter-- you get one semi blank form with parents info for EACH pup. It is up to the owner to register the pup with a name.

Cathryn
24th May 2007, 12:25 AM
Here in the UK the breeder registers the whole litter and it is up to the new owner to transfer ownership into their own name. I recently joined the Kennel Club (UK) online registration service, one of the features of which is you can view all dogs registered in your ownership, golly did I get a shock! Apparantly I have 26 bitches and 25 dogs!! :yikes icon_nwunsure Not too sure where I keep them all :lpy: Ironically a lot of the one's still in my name went to people who made the most fuss about papers! icon_nwunsure

Crittercall
24th May 2007, 12:57 AM
Then Wallis is registered with the CKCSC.

I understood completely why Betty did not want the breed to be AKC recognized, and still do understand.

But then, it's still just a piece of paper. Kind of like a marriage license, huh?

BTW, she was one of the first breeders in the US of Irish Wolfhounds from what I understand. Evidently she likes the dogs from across the ocean!!

WoodHaven
24th May 2007, 01:20 AM
Oh, now I know who you mean. The irish wolfhounds is the give away-lol. I talked to a very nice retired couple that had a cavalier from Betty-- the dog recently passed away and they were still crying on the phone. They couldn't say enough good things about their cavalier and the breeder. I wish I had a pup for them.

Crittercall
24th May 2007, 04:07 AM
Wallis is living proof that Betty knows her Cavaliers! She said she would be breeding blenheims in September.

I love the Wolfhounds, too. Such huge dogs without a trace of mean in them. I think the worst they can do is lean on you until you fall down - then watch out for that tongue!!