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Wrigs Mom
9th August 2007, 12:08 AM
Hi, everyone-

I'm in need of some support today. My 3 and a half year old Cavalier, Wrigley, was vomiting last night and again this morning. He's never vomited more than a little bit every once in a blue moon and then runs around about 1 minute later. So, needless to say, I was very concerned this morning. The vet took him and gave him a blood test since he was vomiting bile this morning since there was nothing left in his tummy. The blood test indicated this:

Red Blood Cell: 5.45 (normal 6.5)
Cholesterol: 332 (normal 100-300)
Liver Enzyme ALT: 451 (normal 50)

I find this all very strange since he weighs 15 pounds and has been on Royal Canin Dry Dog Food Mini Light 30 for over 2 years. He's always been very healthy. When I asked the vet (whom I trust completely) if these raised levels are just because of a digestive issue or something more severe, he said it could indicate a more severe problem. Since this is my first real health concern with dogs, I'm looking for insight. Is it normal for dogs to have these types of increased blood work if the dog has a stomach virus or a digestive tract concern?

The only real change in Wrigs has been barking more at me (which is usually telling me he needs to go potty, but now he tells me this every hour) and he had an allergy on his paw (he was licking it excessively and started taking Temaril P about 4 days ago). I'm wondering if this medicine has anything to do with these increased levels. The doc is going to have me change his diet now for 2 weeks to see if that has something to do with it. He wants me to feed Wrigs twice a day with Purina Pro Plan Light (dry) and Hills Prescription Diet (wet). Does anyone have experience with these?

Thanks for the support,
Concerned Kris

Cathy Moon
9th August 2007, 03:07 AM
I don't feel qualified to give you advice, but if it were one of my dogs I would suspect the medication he just started - Temaril P. Have you tried 'Googling' to see what the side effects are?

I would ask the vet to change the medication. Or if the dosage is correct.

Here is the data sheet from Pfizer:
http://www.pfizerah.com/PAHimages/compliance_pdfs/US_EN_TM_compliance.pdf

Wrigs Mom
9th August 2007, 03:15 AM
Well, I just want you all to know that I am officially printing out a degree in veterinary medicine. I have been stalking the Internet all day and found out that Temaril P (an antihistimine and steroid) has a side effect of ELEVATED LIVER ENZYMES. I printed out the page and am going to go into my vet tomorrow. The ONLY new thing that has changed with Wrigs was this medicine, so it HAS to be that that caused the raised levels.

Here's the link: http://www.cpvh.com/Pharmacy/ph57.html

Plus, Little Wrigs seems to be back to being spunky and interested in life this evening. This was quite a scare! I AM going to take him for his re-test in 2 weeks, but I feel good that my suspicions about the medicine were validated.

Sincerely,
(Almost) Vet Kris

Cathy T
9th August 2007, 04:34 AM
I do know of someone who was giving this and saw an increaese in thirst/urination. Sounds like you've found the cause for the elevated enzymes. Let us know what the vet says. This could definitely be information useful to others in the future.

P S - Degree is on it's way ;)

Karlin
9th August 2007, 04:43 AM
Just two caveats would come to mind -- drugs often affect species differently and an issue with humans would not necessarily be an issue with dogs (likewise dogs and cats react very differently, and can even be poisoned by, a medication that benefits one). So do check out if there are siilar know side affects with dogs.

The second issue would be -- the demand to go out could well be behavioural. IE he's just figured he can bar and get the attention from you of letting him out. So there may not actually be any increased urination.

The liver enzyme level certainly seems a serious issue one way or another. I don't have any idea what would cause that but I am sure your vet will now start the process of trying to narow down what is going on.

On vomiting -- I have one dog that vomits all the time and one now and then. Sometimes they bring up a lot of stuff, sometimes bile or watery liquid. Some just sem to start doing this or be prne to it (as with cats) -- so it may or may not be connected to what you are seeing with the liver. That said I am getting my vomity boy in next week to check liver enzyme levels because he is on gabapentin for syringomyelia, which can (very rarely) cause problems with the liver).

Good luck in sourcing the issue with Wrigley -- it is really frustrating when these things are happening and we have no idea why. :confused:

Karlin
9th August 2007, 04:43 AM
Just two caveats would come to mind -- drugs often affect species differently and an issue with humans would not necessarily be an issue with dogs (likewise dogs and cats react very differently, and can even be poisoned by, a medication that benefits one). So do check out if there are siilar know side affects with dogs.

The second issue would be -- the demand to go out could well be behavioural. IE he's just figured he can bar and get the attention from you of letting him out. So there may not actually be any increased urination.

The liver enzyme level certainly seems a serious issue one way or another. I don't have any idea what would cause that but I am sure your vet will now start the process of trying to narow down what is going on.

On vomiting -- I have one dog that vomits all the time and one now and then. Sometimes they bring up a lot of stuff, sometimes bile or watery liquid. Some just sem to start doing this or be prne to it (as with cats) -- so it may or may not be connected to what you are seeing with the liver. That said I am getting my vomity boy in next week to check liver enzyme levels because he is on gabapentin for syringomyelia, which can (very rarely) cause problems with the liver).

Good luck in sourcing the issue with Wrigley -- it is really frustrating when these things are happening and we have no idea why. :confused:

Wrigs Mom
9th August 2007, 05:46 PM
I'm just so frustrated. This morning, Wrigs refuses to eat the Hills Prescription Diet Wet food the vet provided. I can almost guarantee that giving him his regular Royal Canin dry food would be no problem and he'd scarf it up. This elevated liver enzyme just has me freaked out. Did this all happen because Wrigs was vomiting and on the Temaril P? Was it related to his sickness or is it something really serious? I feel like I'm going to have to wait 2 weeks for the next blood tests before i can sleep soundly and not worry. The GOOD news is that Wrigley is back to being spunky, sleeping well, moving around the house normally, and his urine is back to the correct color. Grrr....this is all very scary and I don't really like having to sit back and wait a few weeks even though my dog's acting normal (except for not eating the wet food).

Denise G.
9th August 2007, 07:58 PM
Kristen--If I were you, I would give him his regular food. If for no other reason, as a test to see if it's the medicine or his food. It seems strange that the food he's been on for two years would suddenly make his liver enzymes shoot up. I would lay money that it was the medicine. I'm glad to hear Wrigley is back to his spunky little self.

Hills isn't a premium dog food and has questionable ingredients--I don't blame him for not eating it.

Just my 2 cents--I'm sure others will weigh in if they disagree...

Good luck with Wrigley--and give him hugs Mia and my Wrigley (great name by the way ;) )

Wrigs Mom
9th August 2007, 10:21 PM
Ok, so talked to the vet again (I'm officially a stalker) and the vet INSISTS not to give him the Royal Canin anymore. Wrigs just ate a little bit of the Hills wet food, but not much. The vet said I should supplement some of his food with toast and some cheese. Wouldn't doing this just cause Wrigs to continue to refuse to eat dog food, but instead hold out for human food? Would it just be best to not force him to eat anything today and the maybe tomorrow he'll be hungry enough to eat?

alibunnylady
9th August 2007, 10:52 PM
I personally have to disagree with your vet on this. Changing his food suddenly is not a good idea anyway and also, I agree with what has been said that the mediation should be changed to see if it's that prior to changing anything else.

I really can't see that a dog being on Royal Canin for two years odd with no ill effects could suddenly develop something like this and especially as the only change recently has been that he has been put on medication. That would tell me almost without at doubt that the drug isn't agreeing with him, change it and retest in a week or two weeks and if there is no change, THEN think about maybe altering the diet.

Hope you get to the bottom of it and quickly. Good luck.

Alison

Denise G.
9th August 2007, 11:34 PM
Is the vet telling you why he doesn't want you to feed the Royal Canine? Is he afraid it's contaminated in some way? I don't understand his reasoning. If the problem persists, I would get a second opinion, if I were you. Does Wrigley seem to be completely o.k. now?

Very odd...

Wrigs Mom
10th August 2007, 12:09 AM
Yes...the vet wants him off the Royal Canin because it's a dry food. He thought it would be better for him to be on wet food for a week and then go on Purina Pro Plan in the morning and this Hills Premium at night. I believe he's concerned the liver levels are off because of the Royal Canin. I explained Wrigs loves it and has eaten it for 2 years with NO PROBLEM. I don't wanna question a doctor, but I don't agree with his recommendations. I've emailed my breeder, so we'll see.

Holly
10th August 2007, 12:13 AM
Oliver is prone to stomach issues and the vet always recommends Science Diet I/D canned food because it is bland. Thats the only time I will feed Science Diet though, because it has a lot of fillers in it. I thought Purina Pro Plan also has lots of fillers. I think its good that you are checking with the breeder.

Cathy Moon
10th August 2007, 12:15 AM
Is Wrigley still taking the Temaril P medication? Or did the vet change his meds to something else?

Have you considered getting a second opinion?

Denise G.
10th August 2007, 12:20 AM
Good luck, Kristen and I don't blame you for not wanting to go against your vet's advice. Let us know what the breeder says. I sort of understand where the vet is coming from in recommending the wet food--at least as far as settling Wrigley's stomach goes. Mia can't tolerate kibble, as it gives her stomach/colitis problems. I've had to temporarily put her on Science Diet/ID before. Now she's on prepared raw dog food and does great on it. I'm just curious if/why he's connecting the Royal Canine to the liver enzyme problem.

Keep us posted--

Wrigs Mom
10th August 2007, 03:32 AM
Wrigs is off of the Temaril now. He hasn't vomited since and his spirits are a bit higher. Since he refused to eat the wet food today, I made him a piece of toast and smeared the wet dog good on top (just like a jelly!) He ate that!! :) I feel awful going against my vet, but I'm frustrated. I'm going to listen to what he says and hope that in two weeks blood tests come back ok.