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pinkpuppy
11th August 2007, 12:34 PM
I know this is a delicate question for all ethical breeders out there.

It is normal to take a non-refundable deposit of a thousand dollars for a puppy you may not have first choice for?

Hope I didn't offend all reputable kind breeders out here.

Would be my second Cavalier. This time around with all the right questions asked of both parties. Health exams of both Dam and Sire before breeding.

I really want to do it right this time since I will be thinking of adding another puppy after this one.

TIA:flwr:

Cathryn
11th August 2007, 12:39 PM
Have PM'd you!

*Pauline*
11th August 2007, 01:31 PM
Yikes, I hope you haven't given any money yet. :confused:

pinkpuppy
11th August 2007, 01:35 PM
No, I haven't. Puppies were born last Wednesday. Would be to early to give the breeder a deposit. Especially since they are too young to be evaluated as potential show dogs. My husband already said "no". My curiousity is making me question the morals of a 50% non-refundable deposit???

loveisokay
11th August 2007, 01:38 PM
Is it non-refundable even if she loses some of the puppies? :confused:

Bit of a high "deposit", isn't it!!

pinkpuppy
11th August 2007, 02:09 PM
"Bit of a high "deposit" " is being polite. My question is. Is this normal and expected if one wants a Cavalier from a ethical breeder? I'm just wondering how everyone here on the board that are only pet owners of pedigrees afford a limited contract pup? That being said. It's going to take at least that amount of the deposit as start-up cost for things the puppy needs. Like vet visits, food, vitamins, comfort things, puppy classes, yikes!

loveisokay
11th August 2007, 02:48 PM
I don't know how much the puppy is worth, but $1,000 as just the deposit sounds like you're paying up front..

Litters obviously cost a lot to care for appropriately, so I suspect that is why the deposit is so high?

Sounds .. odd to me.

The only time a deposit has been paid on a puppy from my part was when he was 6 weeks old & that was for £100 (or $200ish). :confused: I agree with the principle of money deposits, but $1,000?

pinkpuppy
11th August 2007, 03:13 PM
I'm not saying a Cavalier is not worth the money. I'm not trying to buy a show dog of course will quite literally cost several times more. Several thousand for a fixed puppy just seems unnatural. May sound callous but this person may as well fix the puppy before I buy it. Might balance out the cost then my hubby wouldn't have said "no" first thing this morning. *sniff*

Cathy Moon
11th August 2007, 03:25 PM
I would only pay a deposit on a specific puppy. For example, we paid a $500 deposit for Geordie. We wanted him specifically and it was our full intention to buy him, so we never even discussed whether the deposit was refundable. We already knew and trusted his breeder, because we had bought India from them.

With India, we didn't pay a deposit. We drove 9 hours to meet her and her breeder (and several other lovely cavaliers!) India's breeder was recommended to us by several well-known, ethical show breeders. We wanted to make sure we liked both the puppy and her breeder, and I'm sure her breeder and OH felt the same way! She and her husband had to get to know us and make sure we met their approval before putting one of their precious puppies in our arms.

With Chocolate it was different again! We had befriended both her handler and her breeder at dog shows. After Chocolate went into 'retirement' we got to take her home, then when everyone involved felt it was a good match/adoption we paid for her.:flwr:

loveisokay
11th August 2007, 03:28 PM
If you're uncomfortable with the deposit or the price, ask other breeders in your area & find one you are more comfortable with/makes you feel more comfortable with the one you have found. The most important thing is to feel comfortable - usually if you have to ask about something because you're unsure, then you're not comfortable.

*Pauline*
11th August 2007, 07:06 PM
I didn't pay a penny until the day I got Dylan.

Nancy
11th August 2007, 07:19 PM
I started taking a deposit after puppies born and people had decided-they wanted me to stop telling anyone else they were available. Well, one lady I found out, was combing the country even after she had me hold one so I started the policy. To be honest, it's probably refundable if a legitimate issue came up, but not just because they changed their mind on my puppy vs. someone else's. I spend a lot of time with prospective homes and of course don't want them to go somewhere they aren't wanted, but I think it's a good way to keep that "shopping" instinct in check. And it was nominal, NOT $1,000. I have heard of one or two breeders who take a deposit on litters not born, and you're supposed to wait . If you get tired of waiting, it's not refundable. That is just wrong.

WoodHaven
11th August 2007, 07:20 PM
Prices in the US are higher for most cavalier pups than the UK. I believe that England and the USA have comparable numbers in breeding and a vast difference in demand.

A thousand dollars sounds like a huge amount to ask for a nonrefundable deposit. btw, I know many breeders don't take any deposits. If you change your mind-- I would hate to have people think they had to take the pup or lose their money.

Karlin
11th August 2007, 07:22 PM
Breeders in the US would have a different approach to a lot of UK/Irish breeders and many would take deposits on puppies, but this seems more to give the buyer security than to raise funds for the breeder! However, persoanally, I would absolutely avoid a breeder demanding a *non-refundable* deposit. None of the reputable breeders I know of ask for a nonrefundable deposit. And that is a HUGE amount to put down in advance unless you really know this is a reputable, well known breeder. I would think $500 would be more the norm.

Is this someone who is showing and whose dogs have some profile? That's the only situation in which I can imagine a breeder *might* look for this much and *might* make it nonrefundable.

In my experience (limited for the US!) only the shadier breeders look for nonrefundable deposits and mostly to keep people backing out when they gradually realise the breeder may be sub-par.

Maybe some of our US breeders will be able to give you their perspective.

WoodHaven
11th August 2007, 07:36 PM
I actually had a buyer in NYC want a pup from me. He was booking the flight to pick him up and his partner's mother, who lived in Spain, died of a heart attack. He asked me to hold him until they got back three or four weeks later. He got back and was booking the flight and his father's cancer had come out of remission. He later wanted me to home the pup elsewhere -- but HE offered several hundred dollars for holding the pup until he was four months old. I knew I'd have no problem homing the pup, so I told him no. I thought it was very thoughtful of him to offer.

pinkpuppy
11th August 2007, 08:17 PM
This breeder is relatively new to showing dogs. I'm not positive, but could have sworn I saw a picture of 2 young pups in particular. *Sorry hope this subject doesn't upset.

I agree $500 deposit seems like a fair sum to hold a particular puppy in question until it's old enough to leave its litter mates. It's just seems questionable to take a $1k non-refunable deposit.

Under special circumstances things could change very quickly. That was very kind of you Sandy and considerate of the buyer to offer. I would've done the same thing in his shoes

Maybe I wasn't meant to have be a Cavalier mom. Seems like these strange situations keep popping up.

Breeders that don't take deposits, but no pups at this moment. One breeder actually turned the table and back out instead of the other way around. All because I mention how gorgeous the pup look and were they sure this was not a potential show pup? They asked me to give them a week and I did. Received an email at the end of week saying they've changed their minds.

That was the furthest I would have flown for a puppy 2 months ago.

If anyone knows of a reputable breeder that may have puppies in October in Northern California PM me. It's been several years I'll be visiting my mom and family. Pre-Holiday thing. Be nice to meet another breeder maybe bring a puppy home for Thanksgiving. Maybe this would be my last time...:(

Nancy
11th August 2007, 08:18 PM
The 2 I know who take deposits on puppies not yet born for a waiting list and refuse to refund under any circumstance are considered , one in California has a very famous name, and one somewhere in South.

pinkpuppy
11th August 2007, 08:27 PM
I take it these 2 breeders take smaller non-refundable deposits for their unborn puppies. Have to be famous for showing their dogs with great reputations! I'm about ready to look up the one that seems the most famous to me, the one with books in production. They don't have puppies either plus it might become a little too far in the event they do have a waiting list. Things could change very rapidly when on a wait list.

Cathryn
11th August 2007, 08:47 PM
I only take a small deposit and would refund it in most circumstances other than simply changing their minds. I feel it gives the new owners a sense of security that I cannot sell their chosen puppy to any-one (NOT that I would) else.
Someone has mentioned it is costly to raise a litter, I however build that into the money set on one side to cover the stud fee, health checks etc, if you can't cover those costs in the first place without relying on people's deposits on the puppies then maybe you shouldn't be breeding in the first place?

I feel this is an unacceptably high deposit to expect any-one to pay, refundable or not!

I am sure there is a puppy out there with your name on it, hang in there for now, you will have your baby you just have to find each other first!

pinkpuppy
11th August 2007, 09:39 PM
Patiently waiting... :v*cuum:

Thanks all for your replies! :flwr:

Cathy Moon
11th August 2007, 09:52 PM
I only take a small deposit and would refund it in most circumstances other than simply changing their minds. I feel it gives the new owners a sense of security that I cannot sell their chosen puppy to any-one (NOT that I would) else.

Cathryn, that's exactly why we put a deposit on Geordie. We wanted to make sure he wouldn't get sold to someone else, and it was winter time - we were delayed in getting him because of snow, etc.

pinkpuppy
11th August 2007, 10:29 PM
I love everyone's fur babies here!

That is what I thought I was going to do this morning. Place a $500 deposit with full intent on buying the puppy of my choice. Plus making her exclusively mine before someone else snatches her up.:confused:


I would only pay a deposit on a specific puppy. For example, we paid a $500 deposit for Geordie. We wanted him specifically and it was our full intention to buy him, so we never even discussed whether the deposit was refundable. We already knew and trusted his breeder, because we had bought India from them.

With India, we didn't pay a deposit. We drove 9 hours to meet her and her breeder (and several other lovely cavaliers!) India's breeder was recommended to us by several well-known, ethical show breeders. We wanted to make sure we liked both the puppy and her breeder, and I'm sure her breeder and OH felt the same way! She and her husband had to get to know us and make sure we met their approval before putting one of their precious puppies in our arms.

With Chocolate it was different again! We had befriended both her handler and her breeder at dog shows. After Chocolate went into 'retirement' we got to take her home, then when everyone involved felt it was a good match/adoption we paid for her.:flwr:

Cathy Moon
12th August 2007, 02:23 AM
I think the only difference is - Geordie's breeder didn't specifically tell us we had to pay a $500 deposit; we wanted to pay a deposit so we could take our time scheduling when to drive there to get him (mainly because of the snowy weather.) We wanted to pay a deposit to show our intent. And she never said it was non-refundable, either. Also, we chose him specifically from his 8 week photo; we didn't get first pick of the litter. Do you see the difference?

pinkpuppy
12th August 2007, 03:15 AM
Yes, I see the difference in the breeder's trust. This breeder also admitted not being accustom to asking for such a large sum. Which was base on the advice of a more established breeder. Well, it was enough to turn my husband off. It sounded more like money first before the health and welfare of the puppy.

Caraline
12th August 2007, 07:11 AM
Some of the puppies we've bought in the past did not require we put down a deposit at all. I think I can only recall one that actually asked for a 50% deposit but that was after we had chosen the puppy. When we picked out Beau the breeders didn't ask for a deposit but we offered them one and they rather uncomfortably accepted. Again we had already picked Beau out from the litter. Some weeks later it became evident that Beau would have an overbite & would not be show quality and the breeders offered back our deposit. We didn't accept it back though as we knew this was the puppy we wanted, even if he did have an overbite.