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View Full Version : When is enough, enough?



chelseaandharley
15th August 2007, 04:58 PM
Hi My Chelsea is 7 and over the last few months she has had a water infection a kidney infection, had to have numorous teeth out as she is prone to bad teeth. and she has just had another operation because her anal glads were the size of golf balls. but on flushing them they have found another lump in the same area. which they may have to do a biopsy on if it does not go in a week. and have just been told her heart murmour is a now a grade 3.

Watching her little face when I take her to the vets is so sad she hates it. I dont know how quickly the heart murmour gets worse but the last thing I want is for her to go at home with heart failure. and going under the anesthetic is not good for her either.

I keep thinking if they find its a tumour is it kinder to put her to sleep. but then I look at her little face, its so hard to know when its enough.

I will and have spent loads on these operations, no she is not insured things changed at home and had to stop it. she is worth every penny

At the moment although she is slowing down she seems healthy on the outside. but if they tell me its a tumour then what would be best for her.

Having a tumour will be a big strain on her heart.

Tracey

Barbara Nixon
15th August 2007, 05:19 PM
First of all, going at home with heart failure is not the worse case senario. Izzy went like that , back in March, and I and others on here saw that as his gift, because I didn't have to make any decisions.

The eyes are a very good indication of how a dog feels. I took Izzy to the vets, on a couple of occasions, fearing that this was it, yet his eyes were alert and sparkling (not so on the day he went. Then he was sort of inward looking) and indeed there were ways to make him better.

I would carry on as long as your dog has sparkling eyes and seems happy. Should you risk an anaesthetic (Monty had one with no problems, a few weeks ago and he has a grade 4) ? I think so. My thoughts with Monty, whom another vet said had a 5 pre-op, so I was very worried, were that if I eft his two bad teeth, his heart would get worse and he could become ill, but if he died under the anaesthetic, he'd never know-so go for it.

Also, as hearts go, a 3 is only 'lower middling', and even dogs on 6s can have a good quality of life. Izzy had a 6 for over two years. Monty has a 4, but no symptoms and he's nearly 12, now.

Cathryn
15th August 2007, 05:28 PM
Having had to make "that" decision for one of mine with advanced MVD I can only tell you to continue to watch your little one, she will tell you when she has had enough herself, the day she looks at you and the sparkle is gone and the tail wag is gone, then you will know what to do for her, it is the hardest decision to make but it is also the ultimate gift of love for her too.

My boy was around 7 when he had a grade 3 murmur, he was almost 10 when I said "Good-Bye", if monitored closely they can manage for a very long time with no apparant discomfort. As for a GA, anaesthetics these days are so much more refined, they would only use the minimum amount necessary,in fact my vet had an op several years ago and asked his anaesthatist what they were using, when told he burst out laughing and said "But I stopped using that at work 7 years ago!" :lol:

I hope that the lump goes of it's own accord, and I am sure you have many more years together left to you yet! :lotsaluv:

Lynn
15th August 2007, 05:40 PM
:hug: Such a difficult decision!!! I like Barbara & Cathryn's advice.... My heart goes out to you. :hug:

Cathy Moon
16th August 2007, 02:05 AM
I agree with Barbara's and Cathryn's advice. The only thing I would add is that I read when a dog has breathing problems, it is very distressing for the dog. So I would let him/her go to sleep if/when medication doesn't help.

Caraline
16th August 2007, 07:43 AM
Tracey, I am so sorry to hear that you are having to face these questions. I really know how you feel as I recently went through something similar with one of mine. In the end, on the day that enough was enough, I just knew. As others have said, it is something about the eyes, also when you see that they are existing rather than living, when fun is outweighed by something that is other than fun.

I hope your Chelsea still has plenty of good times ahead of her, but if she doesn't, then helping her go is your last final act of love for her. And yes, about the breathlessness, I have to agree.

:hug:

Sue.k
16th August 2007, 08:49 AM
Oh Tracey, I am so sorry you are in this situation, my heart really goes out to you :(

Cleo's Person
16th August 2007, 09:49 AM
Tracey, my heart goes out to you at this difficult time. We had to put both pets I grew up with asleep and I echo what others hear have said, you can tell by the eyes when enough is enough. Your girl will let you know when the time comes, meanwhile cherish every moment you have with her so she knows, now more than ever, that she is loved. :hug: :hug:

Barbara Nixon
16th August 2007, 10:21 AM
A few people have mentioned breathlessness; something which Izzy experienced a few times, when his murmur was up to a 6 and in later stages, when his fluid built up. However, when Izzy was breathless during warm weather, Vetmedin put him right within about two days. The first time, he was put on the drug (already on Fortekor) and the second time the Vetmedin dose was doubled. In the case of fluid build up, agin , within two days, a temporary increase in Frusicare sorted things.


Modern drugs are very good and can give a good quality of life for quite some time.

chelseaandharley
16th August 2007, 11:47 AM
Thanks all of you for your kind words,

I have to take her back to the vets next Monday so :xfngr: that the lump has gone had a look today still there and its hard.

The vet let me have a listen to her heart sounds strange dosent it?

I think you are all right she will let me know when she is ready to go. if this lump is cancer then I will see what the vet advices. And if she does go under the anesthetic at least it will be peaceful.

:lotsaluv: Tracey

sallymum
16th August 2007, 12:06 PM
I know how u feel. Sam has a grade 5 murmer , last christmas we still dont know what was wrong sam developed a really painful back he was that bad he couldnt move even to go to toilet, also at night he would scream out in pain where he would have rolled over in his sleep. It was that bad everytime he cried i was crying and so was my OH though he wouldnt admit it. Anyway it got to the stage what with his heart, deafness and now this back i really thought it would be kinder to let him go.
As it was just christmas the vet put him on the strongest pain killer he could while i made up my mind, something kept telling me to wait. Christmas eve i woke up with a start i thought the worst as sam hadnt woke me up all night with the pain. Next thing he walks over and licks my hand. I had never been so happy in my life, it was the best christmas pressie i could of wished for.
A nother few days and he was off the pain killers :xfngr: his back has been fine sence. Sam has slowed down alot lately but his still has a good quality of life, he still has his puppy moments where he forgets how old he is then he sleeps for awhile.
No one can tell u what is best only u can decide, but maybe go for it, Even if Chelsea only has a couple more months of a quality life and least u and her will have enjoyed them. I think as the others have said u will know when the time is right.