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Bruce H
18th August 2007, 04:02 PM
I was working outside, getting dogs going, etc. this morning and when I came in about 8:30am there was a message on the machine from about 7:15am. It was from a person not far from here who said her 9 month old tri boy had swallowed a toy last night. She brought it to the vet about 5:30 this morning and the vet said it was obstructing the intestines. The puppy was throwing up and occaisionally crying. The vet told her it was going to cost $1,000 to $2,000 for surgery. She didn't have that kind of money and was hoping we (as Rescue Coordinator for Mn) could pay for the surgery and place the puppy. If not she was going to have it put down in the next hour or so.

I tried calling every 10 minutes or so for the last 1 1/2 hours and have only received a busy signal. I have an uneasy feeling that's not good news. Unfortunately, she is finding out there is more to owning a dog than the initial purchase price.

Please send a prayer that she figured something out.

Cathryn
18th August 2007, 04:06 PM
OMG!! That is really awful!! :xfngr: for the poor young lad, why didn't she take out insurance when she bought him I wonder? I really hope that you can get through to her and that the poor little guy is OK and doesn't get PTS :( :( Keep us posted on this??

Karlin
18th August 2007, 04:15 PM
Oh jeez, Bruce, that kind of blackmail is beyond belief. You just have to remember YOU are not the ones with the responsibility here, SHE is, and hope all works out OK, as you can unfairly tear yourself up for not being able to solve a crisis someone else has created and refused to take responsibility for.

I'd sure want to make sure she signs the puppy over to rescue if you can reach her, the pup is still OK, and are willing to cover costs of this -- that woman shouldn't be allowed to own a dog. :mad:

Fingers crossed the puppy vomits back up whatever it swallowed. :( Or that you can get through.

Cathy T
18th August 2007, 04:18 PM
This just really bothers me! $1000-$2000 is nothing compared to what this dog will cost you over it's lifetime. And if it's only 9 months old??!! Karlin is right....this is very unfair.

Jenny37
18th August 2007, 04:59 PM
Gosh, having been through a similar situation just 48 hours ago, I really feel bad for her.

I totally understand the cost involved, but doesn't she have a credit card for these kind of emergencies? family members?

I agree, this amount is only the beginning for her and the lifetime of the pet.

It would never have even crossed my mind to call a rescue group...very bold to do so.

Keep us updated!

Bruce H
18th August 2007, 06:37 PM
Still a busy signal :(

I'm guessing by now she either figured something out or she had the boy put down. I was thinking about trying again in an hour or two, but probably won't because either way, there won't be anything that I can do.

Karlin
18th August 2007, 06:49 PM
You probably don't know the vets either, from her message. Do you know the general area? Presumably there would be only a few vets around her?

Remali
18th August 2007, 09:27 PM
I am hoping that the vet will work out a payment plan for her, and let the poor woman go ahead with surgery. Having been in a similar situation myself once (job loss, death of parents, etc.), I know that sometimes things happen beyond our control. I don't know the whole situation with this lady who owns the puppy, but I sure wouldn't condemn her just yet without knowing all the facts.

Maxwell&me
18th August 2007, 09:30 PM
I'll tell you what really gets me about these kinds of storys~

First of all : ANY Credit Card Company will increase your limit in the event of an emergancy like this one, all you have to do is ask.....

Second: If you dont have a credit card, MOST Vets will allow you to come up with some kind of a Payment Plan...Espressially if your established with them...

Third: There is an online place that gives out Emergancy Vet Loans...and Im still searching for that link....I forget how it works now but I had a sitter that needed to use this service for exactly this reason....( Tiny Yorkie that ate stuffing from a stuffed animal...)

If all else fails.....Beg, Plead and Cry to whomever you have too.....But get the dog medical attention....

( Why the heck do people think that becouse they are irresponsible on all levels that its O.K. to put the dog down....Its NOT the dogs fault....Uggghhh....)

This kinda stuff really ticks me off!

Remali
18th August 2007, 09:48 PM
Perhaps it was the vet who told her she may have to put the puppy down if surgery wasn't done? If this woman called to ask for help, I doubt she really wants to have her beloved puppy put to sleep. I know for a fact that our vets in this area will not work out a payment plan with anybody, even if you have been established with them and have always paid in full every time (I have a couple friends that work for some local vets and heard enough stories to make my blood boil). I am hoping and praying that the vets over there are more easy to work with and more kind-hearted than the vets we have here. Hopefully the vet suggested she could get that emergency pet credit card as well.

Bruce H
18th August 2007, 10:05 PM
I finally got through to the woman. Her puppy Rocky has had the surgery and is expected to be just fine :w**h**: He swallowed a marble, so it didn't do any internal damage because it was nice and round and smooth.

Like I expected, based on the time she brought him in, he was at the emergency vet; around here the emergency vets are VERY expensive. She waited til her regular vet opened and got him in right away. Her vet did the surgery for $600 and she could afford that.

We talked about her boy Rocky and Cavaliers in general for quite a while, had a very nice chat.

Cathryn
18th August 2007, 10:09 PM
OH what a relief!! :xfngr: That Rock has a speedy recovery!! Hope that this lady will turn to you for advice in the future!

Remali
18th August 2007, 10:31 PM
Oh that is such great news! I hope Rocky has a speedy recovery.

loveisokay
18th August 2007, 10:57 PM
Hopefully she has learnt about the reponsilities following this scare!

Glad for the puppy's sake that he's doing okay.

Caraline
18th August 2007, 11:48 PM
I am so glad this had a happy ending. People often get all miffy when you tell then that the most inexpensive part of dog ownership is the purchase price of the puppy, but it is so true.

JeanKC
19th August 2007, 05:53 AM
I'm just not at all sure why most folks are so hard on the owner here. She could have simply said to hell with it and put the dog down... instead she looked for help. And she didn't ask the rescue to pay for it for HER, she was willing to give the dog up for placement afterward, probably assuming that the adoption fee to the new owner would cover the cost.

If she had put the dog down and word got out, I'd be willing to bet there would have been posts from rescue people wondering why she didn't contact them.

KC

Cathy Moon
19th August 2007, 07:18 AM
As a long-time dog owner, it would never even occur to me to handle one of my dog's medical emergencies that way. I'm thinking that is a lot to dump on someone else - can't imagine doing it and find it a bit shocking.

Karlin
19th August 2007, 11:16 AM
I am so glad this story turned out OK -- but I absolutely and totally agree here wth Cathy. Someone who cannot manage an emergency --which includes making tough decisions sometimes -- should not own a dog or needs to take a decision such as pts themselves, not burden rescue with an 'either you pay and take the dog, or it will have to die." That is the choice she offered and it is shocking as well as insensitive, immature and irresponsible to just try to shift the burden to breed rescue, which never, ever really has the money to cover something like this. If I got a call like this I'd have to say, I cannot cover a cost like that and your dog will have to be pts -- or it would exhaust my ability to rescue any other cavalier for a year. :(. And I would feel ill because *I* had been forced to make a decision that should never have been mine to make and had nothing to do with me; this wasn't a rescue dog, it was someone who only decided to get rid of the dog into rescue when the choice was paying for a health issue (and even worse, a life or death emergency issue; how cold is that). It is hard enough for rescue to deal day in and day out with the sad situations owners leave their dogs in, without having to either cover an owner's bills or knowingly let an animal die for such an irresponsible reason. :mad:

There are other options for payment as people say, including taking out a loan (most banks will do this for a relatively minor amount like $1000-$2000), increase your credit card amount, get insurance, borrow from family -- or make the hard decision to put down the dog because YOU cannot afford to care for it. You don't shift that burden, and the pain of that decision, to some other organisation. To call private individuals at 7:15am on a Saturday because you are in a panic about covering the costs for your own dog is also just off the scale of appropriate behaviour on every level.

Even $1000 is a relatively minor amount in the larger picture of the likely animal health care costs that will arise -- if there are financial problems aleady, then an owner really needs to consider insurance, and whether dog ownership is right for them.

The correct approach in the aftermath is what Bruce has obviously done -- to talk to the person as kindly as possible through what nearly happened and why it cannot ever happen again, and suggest some resources to prevent this happening and indicate what kinds of costs are very likely to arise in future and WILL need to be covered.

But what this woman did was wrong, and appalling.

JeanKC
19th August 2007, 02:55 PM
I've read Bruce's two posts on this, and I'm not sure he interpreted the call the way that you apparently have. I still think it's not at all unreasonable for someone to think 'rescue' organizations may be an option, instead of just putting the dog to sleep. The fact that she made the call to begin with indicates a concern for the animal's well being, and based on what was posted, if I was answering the phone, I certainly wouldn't have taken it as someone trying to push an unpleasant decision off on me... rather someone with a dog in trouble who was looking for help... not for her, but for the dog. Whether or not you like it, you don't know anything at all about her circumstances, or what might've changed in her life since she got the dog.

What I read from Bruce was concern for the dog... not condemnation of the owner... which is what I thought 'rescue' was ultimately about.

KC

BarbMazz
19th August 2007, 05:13 PM
I am so glad this story turned out OK -- but I absolutely and totally agree here wth Cathy. Someone who cannot manage an emergency --which includes making tough decisions sometimes -- should not own a dog or needs to take a decision such as pts themselves, not burden rescue with an 'either you pay and take the dog, or it will have to die." That is the choice she offered and it is shocking as well as insensitive, immature and irresponsible to just try to shift the burden to breed rescue, which never, ever really has the money to cover something like this. If I got a call like this I'd have to say, I cannot cover a cost like that and your dog will have to be pts -- or it would exhaust my ability to rescue any other cavalier for a year. :(. And I would feel ill because *I* had been forced to make a decision that should never have been mine to make and had nothing to do with me; this wasn't a rescue dog, it was someone who only decided to get rid of the dog into rescue when the choice was paying for a health issue (and even worse, a life or death emergency issue; how cold is that). It is hard enough for rescue to deal day in and day out with the sad situations owners leave their dogs in, without having to either cover an owner's bills or knowingly let an animal die for such an irresponsible reason. :mad:

There are other options for payment as people say, including taking out a loan (most banks will do this for a relatively minor amount like $1000-$2000), increase your credit card amount, get insurance, borrow from family -- or make the hard decision to put down the dog because YOU cannot afford to care for it. You don't shift that burden, and the pain of that decision, to some other organisation. To call private individuals at 7:15am on a Saturday because you are in a panic about covering the costs for your own dog is also just off the scale of appropriate behaviour on every level.

Even $1000 is a relatively minor amount in the larger picture of the likely animal health care costs that will arise -- if there are financial problems aleady, then an owner really needs to consider insurance, and whether dog ownership is right for them.

The correct approach in the aftermath is what Bruce has obviously done -- to talk to the person as kindly as possible through what nearly happened and why it cannot ever happen again, and suggest some resources to prevent this happening and indicate what kinds of costs are very likely to arise in future and WILL need to be covered.

But what this woman did was wrong, and appalling.

I think the woman was desperate at the time, and was most likely not thinking entirely clearly. Or I could be wrong and this situation showed her true nature. It's impossible to say from the information available and without being able to talk with her personally.

Another thought is that financial circumstances can change drastically and quickly in today's world. What one can afford when one purchases the dog, and what one can afford down the road can be an entirely different matter altogether Re-homing a beloved pet when finances take a downturn would be very difficult to do!

The woman was definitely cheeky with her payment request, and the addition of the choices presented would be upsetting, especially at that early hour in the morning, and from a complete stranger. I don't think such a request would occur to me in that situation. However, everyone reacts differently in an emergency situation.

I think it's a combination of bad timing, bad wording, and bad vetting on top of the whole thing. I think given the circumstance I could forgive this woman and take the chance and try to educate her, as Bruce did.

Karlin
19th August 2007, 05:40 PM
As I did say, it is very important to use the opportunity to talk to an owner like this as maybe they are not really able for dog ownership. They need to understand the costs that certainly lie ahead as well as the unexpected costs, as she will surely not want this to arise again. Sometimes an event like this is the point where people realise they are not going to be able to commit to owning an animal.

But the approach this woman took is still tantamount to blackmail. If finances were so tight as not to extend to covering an emergency , it raises an awful lot of questions about what she was doing owning a dog in the first place. I would seriously doubt she paid as much for her dog as the initial vet estimate, and no rescue charges $1000-plus for dogs. The money would be impossible to recuperate (but again I simply cannot imagine putting a charity in this position in the first place). I have a financial challenge if I have to pay for a dog to rescue it (see my post in the breed rescue section) -- I won't be able to recuperate that amount in the homing fee along wih all my vet costs per dog. Most breed rescues just do not have huge surplus funds.

Maybe put it this way -- what if someone you knew called you to tell you that their dog needed immediate emergency treatment that might cost $2,000 and they would have to pts the dog unless you were willing to pay the bill right away but you could keep the dog? It is as uncomfortable to put breed rescue in this position as it is to put a friend in such a position, with a decision necessary immediately. It is agonsing for anyone in rescue to have to make such a decision, as I can testify; I have been there myself.

The good thing is the immediate situation is resolved. :thmbsup: I just hope that woman goes and takes out insurance immediately if finances are so tight that she was in a position to let her dog die rather than find a way to manage the costs herself. She was quite clear that this was the choice at the time.

*Pauline*
19th August 2007, 06:31 PM
I'm glad it turned out ok in the end.

Bruce H
19th August 2007, 08:29 PM
I've been debating how (or if) to respond to all the posts on this thread. It seems I've created quite a stir :confused: , wasn't my intent, but as I reread my posts, I guess I should have expected strong opinions on both sides of the coin. So let me tell you what I personally think both before and after finding out what the outcome was.

Before I was able to talk to the woman, I was a bit miffed. But, to tell you the truth, I really wasn't upset that she called Rescue, but that PTS was an option. I mean, how could she even think about putting her dog down when an operation could fix him? All I could think about was a cute little boy being PTS because of money. And to make it worse, I couldn't even talk to her because all I ever got was a busy signal. I was actually thinking quite seriously about talking to her about financing a part of the surgery :yikes so I'm glad it worked out because Kris probably would have had me PTS :lol: .

So now after talking to her (I almost quit trying to reach her because I was afraid of the answer I would get), here is what I think. She was in panic mode, I could hear that in her voice message she left. People don't always act rationally when panic sets in, just ask any fireman. Calling Rescue was an option to save her puppy's life. Add to that the fact that she just plain didn't understand how rescue works and I can understand her reaction. What may seem obvious to those of us in rescue may not be obvious to someone else who has never dealt with Rescue.

She also didn't have a clue as to how expensive vet bills could be. Should she have known? Probably. She sure does now and she has said she will plan for a possible future emergency. As an aside, she said she got a very bad feeling about the EV; don't really know what she meant, but I told her we don't use the EV any more unless absolutely necessary; we call ahead to the U of MN and have them do our emergency stuff. They are no more expensive than the EV and are WAY more qualified.

I guess all in all, I feel much better about her after talking to her. She truly loves Rocky. Another way of looking at it was that she was willing to give up a dog she truly loved so it would be OK. We really had a nice chat about Cavalier health and even had some time to talk about some of the woes and fun times of dealing with a puppy, especially a Cavalier puppy. We ended by me telling her to call Kris or I if she had any questions about her puppy; I sincerely hope she does call and let me know how Rocky is getting along.

Lynn
19th August 2007, 08:47 PM
Bruce, you are a gem. :flwr: Awesome post.

Cathy T
19th August 2007, 09:39 PM
Thanks for the details Bruce. I do think it sounds like panic more than anything else. Glad you were able to talk to her and everything turned out okay for everyone.

Remali
19th August 2007, 10:23 PM
I am pretty saddened by the way some people put this poor woman down and crucified her.

Lynn
19th August 2007, 10:49 PM
I am pretty saddened by the way some people put this poor woman down and crucified her.


.........me too

Mary
19th August 2007, 10:55 PM
I am pretty saddened by the way some people put this poor woman down and crucified her.

me too.....be nice if we could be like our cavaliers and be less judgemental and more forgiving sometimes. Unfortunately humans are way less than perfect. We do what we know and when we know better we do better and good for Bruce for taking the time to help this pet owner "know better" so she can do better......

Remali
19th August 2007, 11:22 PM
Well said Mary.

Maxwell&me
20th August 2007, 12:36 AM
I am pretty saddened by the way some people put this poor woman down and crucified her.

Im not sure if this is aimed at me or not~ But I will tell you that I find it personally unforgivable to put an animal down becouse one can't afford medical care. I dont believe I "crucified her" I pointed out ways one could avoid killing their pet becouse of financial hardship.

I know all about hard times, I know about limited finances...I also know about caring for a sick parent as I have been for the last 10 years. I frankly think many dont take pet care as seriously as they should~ I also happen to agree with the very well made point that a Rescue shouldnt have to bare the financial burden of someones personal responsibility.

This is just my own opinion, and I fully understand that some may not agree...but to be honest with you I dont think the finger shaking pointed in my direction is deserved.

Bruce, Thanks for helping in all the many ways you do- and thanks for sharing this story with all of us...It food for thought for many of us that either posted or are reading- and at least she did contact someone rather than P.T.S the puppy or worse.

Lynn
20th August 2007, 01:44 AM
Im not sure if this is aimed at me or not~ But I will tell you that I find it personally unforgivable to put an animal down becouse one can't afford medical care. I dont believe I "crucified her" I pointed out ways one could avoid killing their pet becouse of financial hardship.

When I read the ENTIRE thread, I felt as a WHOLE the mood was to crucify the woman....NOT any one person or post....and I felt what Remali said rang true to me....thus I agreed. I don't think anyone can know for sure what was going on with the desperate woman until we've walked a day/week/lifetime in her shoes. I would have felt angry as all get out if I had gotten the call that Bruce got, and felt irate had the dog been pts. I'm happy that this ended well, but right or wrong standing on a soapbox telling people how they should have acted when they were panicked is rather heartless in MY opinion. You just don't know until you are faced with a crisis how you might act.

When I was 15 my dad & I saw a man go through the ice when no one else was around. My dad is a smart man...cool, confident & very resourceful. He stunned me when he and I began our rescue plan....he turned to mush. My smart confident father was incapable if putting together a rational thought for what seemed like an eternity to me. Perhaps this woman was in her insanity moment when she picked up the phone.

Remali
20th August 2007, 02:21 AM
I wasn't pinpointing anyone in particular and I wasn't pointing fingers at anyone or anyone's post....as Lynn put it, it was the entire mood of much of the thread.

Maxwell&me
20th August 2007, 03:22 AM
I'm happy that this ended well, but right or wrong standing on a soapbox telling people how they should have acted when they were panicked is rather heartless in MY opinion. You just don't know until you are faced with a crisis how you might act.

I can tell you that I woudn't put either of my dogs down, I would find another way~ I glad it ended well this time, and hopefully this "owner" will realise that they need to have some kind of a slush fund set up in case this happens again.

( I really have a hard time with the word owner, becouse my personal belief is we cant own what doesnt belong to us in the first place, our dogs are a gift and the responsibility belongs to us to make sure they are cared for)

One of the things I really like about this board is that we can agree to dissagree, and we dont all have the same opinions. No harm, no foul...its all respectful-

Blessings to you all- Im done on this one.

Azriel
20th August 2007, 05:45 AM
i'm a little late on this one but i just wanted to say that i am very happy that this all worked out all right in the end for poor rocky adn his "mom." also, bruce, you are a wonderful person to devote so much of yourself to the betterment of the breed and their human parents.

Donna27
20th August 2007, 06:55 AM
Whew, just read through the entire post, and I must say, good end to an ominous title! Bruce, I'm so glad youw ere there to talk to her. It would be great to get her more educated about pet and cavalier health...Let us know if you here about Rocky!

Scouty girl
20th August 2007, 01:01 PM
Bruce Said:

So now after talking to her (I almost quit trying to reach her because I was afraid of the answer I would get), here is what I think. She was in panic mode, I could hear that in her voice message she left. People don't always act rationally when panic sets in, just ask any fireman. Calling Rescue was an option to save her puppy's life. Add to that the fact that she just plain didn't understand how rescue works and I can understand her reaction. What may seem obvious to those of us in rescue may not be obvious to someone else who has never dealt with Rescue.


I totally agree with what Bruce said in the above paragraph. I really think this poor woman was in a panic situation. She wanted to save her puppy and was doing everything possible. She was more than likely very upset and when people are upset they say all kinds of things. I'm sure we have all done that, at least I have. Afterwards you wonder why you said such a thing. Luckily everything has worked out. I'm sure that any vet would have done the surgery and not put down a young, otherwise healthy puppy. I can totally sympathize with this woman, I would be in the same situation as far as money, even though I would call several relatives before even considering putting a puppy to sleep. I stil say she was in a panic.

Jen
20th August 2007, 02:38 PM
On a side note, for those of us in the Minneapolis area, some Banfield Pet Hospitals (these are the clinics in Petsmart) in the area are open late and on the weekends--even Sundays. We found this out last year when Gus had kennel cough and our neighbor told us instead of an ER visit, try Banfield...obvioulsy a lot less expensive than ER vets.

Karlin
20th August 2007, 03:04 PM
I do understand people going into panic mode. But again -- why did this woman even own a dog if this cost was beyond her imagination to meet, when her puppy's life was on the line? This is not a large amount of money in the overall context of 1) what any cavalier puppy costs to begin with -- she must have paid close to this amount already even for a pet shop or BYB dog, and she knowingly picked out one of the most expensive breeds in the US to buy, and 2) general health care including the need for occasional emergency care. To have taken on dog ownership with absoultely no thought about such costs is ignorant dog ownership. To then call other people hoping they will pay costs you didn't budget for is a bizarre way of panicking, whether it be ringing a shelter, a vet, a rescue or anyone else. The probem isn't that she called a rescue -- it's that she needed to call anyone and make the puppy's chance at life their decision, not hers.

If I were in the situation Bruce was in I'd have done just the same as he -- try to reach the person and get details and try to find a workable solution, and talk to them afterwards. But saying that, my personal opinions -- which is what I am expressing here -- would be exactly what I state: total disbelief at the nerve of someone doing this, not budgeting for dog ownership, being willing to let the dog die if someone else couldn't pay for its emergency treatment at the time (what if she hadn't found it was a marble, and couldn't have waited? I think that puppy would not be alive right now). After several years in general cat and dog rescue and then breed rescue, I am also afraid this type of story is very, very familiar. It saps the will of people doing rescue probably more than any single thing -- people wanting to pass the buck on responsibility especially if there are costs involved. Most people who want their cavaliers rehomed here are not even willing to pay for a neuter first for example, which would help protect the dog's future wellbeing and safety from ending up being bred, or to pay for transport to a good home in the UK when that is needed. On average I rehome several dogs a month now and the sad state of some of these dogs, and the reluctance of owners to do anything for them or even contribute to the costs, is the rule rather than the exception.

But in dealing with this person, I'd have a very serious talk about whether this is the right time to have a dog, much less a breed where, if it gets symptomatic SM or early onset MVD or needs patellas done, her costs are going to be a LOT more than $1000 (and clearly this is unlikely to be a dog from a good breeder with good health prospects anyway, or she would have phoned the breeder first). She clearly could not afford an MRI, for example, and would be seriously strecthed by the basic diagnostic tests that would need to be done regularly to monitor MVD. No chance of patella surgery if both knees needed to be done and just one would also place serious pressure. She needs to be a lot more mature and responsible and also to decide whether she is able to afford this dog -- to take out insurance, as a minimum. One thing you can always count on with animals are unexpected costs and occasional emergencies that sometimes are life threatening. No one wants a repeat of this situation and the goal should be to try as best as possible to make sure it won't be repeated. Hopefully it was a major wake up call. :xfngr:

Scouty girl
20th August 2007, 07:16 PM
I live on a very tight budget, and from what some people have written I shouldn't even be allowed to have a dog. Even if I went to the pound and rescued a dog I still wouldn't have money if there was an emergency, I would just do that best that I could. Charge card, borrow money, anything to help the dog, and believe me I have done it.

Both of my dogs are very healthy and I take excellent everyday care of them. Routine vet visits, food and exercise oh yes and lots of love and attention. It just kind of upsets me that some people think that if you don't have enough money for $1,000-$2,000 surgeries that you are irresponsible and shouldn't own a dog. Wow!!!!

I'm not comparing dog to children, but lots of people have children, more than one and absoutely no health care insurance.

Donna27
20th August 2007, 07:22 PM
I live on a very tight budget, and from what some people have written I shouldn't even be allowed to have a dog. Even if I went to the pound and rescued a dog I still wouldn't have money if there was an emergency, I would just do that best that I could. Charge card, borrow money, anything to help the dog, and believe me I have done it.

Both of my dogs are very healthy and I take excellent everyday care of them. Routine vet visits, food and exercise oh yes and lots of love and attention. It just kind of upsets me that some people think that if you don't have enough money for $1,000-$2,000 surgeries that you are irresponsible and shouldn't own a dog. Wow!!!!

I'm not comparing dog to children, but lots of people have children, more than one and absoutely no health care insurance.


Thank you for saying that, Sharon. I was raised by a single mother and did not have insurance for much of my childhood, but my mom did everything she could for my dog and myself when I was growing up. She is one of the most caring animal lovers and our dog was like her second child, but when emergencies came up, they were not easy to manage. That doesnt mean she didnt make it work.

WoodHaven
20th August 2007, 07:44 PM
I live on a very tight budget, and from what some people have written I shouldn't even be allowed to have a dog. Even if I went to the pound and rescued a dog I still wouldn't have money if there was an emergency, I would just do that best that I could. Charge card, borrow money, anything to help the dog, and believe me I have done it.

Both of my dogs are very healthy and I take excellent everyday care of them. Routine vet visits, food and exercise oh yes and lots of love and attention. It just kind of upsets me that some people think that if you don't have enough money for $1,000-$2,000 surgeries that you are irresponsible and shouldn't own a dog. Wow!!!!

I'm not comparing dog to children, but lots of people have children, more than one and absoutely no health care insurance.


I think people were upset that she stated something like IF I don't hear from you in an hour-- I may have to put the puppy down. Would you call a stranger for help at 7:00am like that. I understand that she was probably freaking out-- but I'd call my vet at home to discuss a lot of things before taking the emergency vets 1-2 grand estimate.
I truly believe that people should have a contingency plan for emergencies: either insurance, a nest egg or a credit card. This may be a wake up call for some. I mean, the dog ate an object he should have/// happens all the time.

No one is going to put a child down if they need healthcare. Illinois covers all kids- no matter what.

Remali
20th August 2007, 07:56 PM
I agree with you Sharon....just because you don't have several thousand dollars stashed away for all of the "what-if's" of dog ownership, does NOT make anyone an irresponsible dog owner. In my case I have lost about three-fourths of my family in the past 5 years, and I also lost a very good-paying job as well, and was forced to take a much-lower paying job. So, I guess I shouldn't probably own a dog any more because I don't have the bucks it takes now to put money away. I guess some people will think what they will and turn their noses up at people who find themselves in bad situations, and Heaven forbid those of us who are in a financially-tight place right now. It is obvious that some people have had a very easy life and have no idea of the real world and that bad things can and do happen to good people.

Cathryn
20th August 2007, 08:07 PM
OK! Lets look at this from another angle, that of the vet. You have all seen the pics of Tasha's spay wound and many commented on what a great surgeon the vet who did that was, Yes he is, Dave is a great vet and a wonderful surgeon. I have been with this practice for 10 years now and the one factor I insisted on when my parents took on Tasha was that she stayed under the care of my own vet. I have for many years now had an agreement with 2 of the 3 senior partners there, they have 3 different surgeries and each are responsible for one of them. At my 2 more local surgeries the rule is that I pay what I can, when I can, so when Princess's eye needed attention I took her to the most local one, no problem! I was referred to the more outlying surgery as the senior partner has a passionate interest in opthalmology, sadly he does NOT share Roger and John's agreement with me, "I don't operate accounts" I was told in no uncertain terms when I first took Princess to see him. Basically I was told that if I wanted her treated by him I would have to clear my account with the OTHER surgery first!! :yikes: As it happens this was a minimal amount of money and was easily paid off. BUT this has left me wondering just how dedicated this particular vet, good as he is in his field of work is, when he appears to care more about balancing his books at the end of the day than getting his patients cured?
Today I had to get more of her eyedrops, sadly not available at the other surgeries as Ian is more specialised than they are, "Don't worry about it" said Roger as usual, yet when I got to Ian's surgery the attitude was "Where's your money?" no "How's Princess doing?" whatsoever! I was straight onto Roger when I got back, he is the most senior of the 3 partners and I know him best, as ever it was "Don't worry about it, I'll have a word", I also spoke to John at the other surgery and was told the same, but I do wonder should the day come when the mortgage and every other bill has just gone out and I have no cash to take out (most places here won't take a cheque now, since chip and pin came in) what would happen if Princess needed attention and I hadn't the money to deal with it??

The moral of this story really is that there are, most sadly I'm afraid to say, vets out there who only want to balance their books, their first question is "How are you going to pay?", personnally I am good for the money within a very few days, but I do live in fear of the day coming when I am flat broke temporarily and a vet refusing to treat my dog because I had no way to pay for 3-4 days!!

Holly
20th August 2007, 09:12 PM
I respect and admore my vet very much and I know that of there were ever a tight situation, she would let me do a payment plan. I know that to Fran, my vet, it is about the animal more than anything else. I think its very sad that a vet would put an otherwise healthy dog down before trying to work something out with the owner.

loveisokay
20th August 2007, 09:13 PM
Perhaps that was what was meant by this woman saying she did not like the emergency vet - maybe it was him who gave her that ultimatum.

Remali
20th August 2007, 09:24 PM
I really wouldn't be surprised if it was the vet that gave the ultimatum...sadly, that has happened here in the city I live, a friend of mine worked for a local vet and saw something very much like that actually happen. The vet basically refused to treat the dog because as the vet put it, "Did you see that woman, she obviously would not have been able to afford it..." My friend was so upset she followed the vet back to the office and talked to her about it, and offered to pay for the dog's vet bill herself, and the vet actually refused to let her do that. Needless to say my friend quit her job with that vet. And while I have a very experienced vet that I trust, he is the same way...even tho I have been going there for over 20 years and have always paid my bill in full, every time. He will not do payments either, and that worries me now that I make less money at my new job.

Cathy T
21st August 2007, 02:12 AM
At our local animal er facility they have an entire department devoted to financial assistance. They have cubicles where you can sit and talk with a financial assistant who will help you make a decision and arrange financing if that's what you need to do. They also have an open fund that accepts donations and donates portions of the fund to help those who need it.

When Shelby had her knee surgery and Jake had has carcinoma surgery three weeks later I was faced with over $4000 in medical bills. No way in heck was it ever an option to put one of them down. I found a way to make it happen. Believe me....I DID NOT have $4000 just sitting in an account waiting for an emergency.

It's not whether you have the money set aside for an emergency...it's a matter of whether you will find a way to make it happen or will you foist your problems off on someone else. Even then....sometimes that's the only option. Many times dogs come into rescue because their owners are unable to accept financial responsibility for their medical concerns. While I hate to see that happen...I would much rather see that than have a dog pts.