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View Full Version : Homeopathic vaccines, advice needed please.



*Pauline*
10th September 2007, 02:01 PM
I have been looking into homoeopathic vaccines for Dylan and by chance, my trainer said her dog has been very ill since his second vaccines (1 year booster) 9 years ago and this worried me, Dylan is due his.

I have found two companies, Ainsworths and Helios. Both do combinations which cover:

Parvovirus
Distemper
Hepititis
Leptospirosis
Bordetella

But when Dylan had his conventional injections at the vet, he was also vaccinated against

Parainfluenza and Coronavirus.

Ainsworths will sell me something for Coronavirus but only if my vet gives me a prescription but neither company has anything for Parainfluenza.

Can anyone advise me please? What are Parainfluenza and Coronavirus?
Can I get my vet to immunise separately for these if no homeopathic solution is available?

Karlin
10th September 2007, 02:48 PM
You can generally get any vaccine as a separate vaccine but sometimes it will cost a lot more.

There are no conclusive studies that demonstrate homeopathic vaccines work at all, however, though there is some evidence that they may work, or sometimes work. You need to weigh whether you think the risk is greater that your dog could acquire and die from something very serious like Parvo or disptemper from something that hasn;t had proper clinical trials or whether you fear psosible side effects to regular vaccines which have been extensively tested. It is know that in very small numbers of cases animals can have reactions to vaccines. It is not know in any definitive way whether homeopathic vaccines will offer sufficient protection against any serious condition.

I personally would only ever choose non traditional vaccines if I had an ill or immuno-suppressed animal or one known to be intolerant of traditional vaccines -- eg if I felt this was better than nothing.

If you have seen puppies or adult dogs suffering and slowly dying from parvo at a vets -- which I have -- then I think it makes you very unwilling to take the risk of ever exposing any dog to this horrific condition. I'd want more conclusive evidence than exists for homeopathic vaccines and nosodes to accept they provide adequate protection.

It's a personal consideration of the risk. Some feel more confident despite the scarcity of any double blind clinical trials or are comfortable with the type of testing that has been done -- but these would not be acceptable for them to be certified as effective under any national guidelines. There's no legal requirement to vaccinate however in the UK so hence no definition on what must be used. In the US where rabies vax is required you can't use homeopathic remedies nor can you to substitute for vaccines for the pet passport scheme for example (this would also apply to Europeans wishing to take their dogs abroad on a Pet Passport).

BTW the chances that your trainer's dog's problem is due to the vaccine rather than a million other reasons is infinitesimally small. Assuming an association is easy to do but statistically highly unlikely. I could assume that drinking a glass of wine every day helps me avoid colds because I drink a glass of wine daily and almost never get colds -- but I am sure this is purely coincidence. :) Many illnesses that last long term, tend to become apparent as an animal reaches maturity and grows out of puppyhood, or has had the chance to develop just long enough to start to show symptoms. You'd need to understand the illness, the symptoms, the known side effects and the way in which the vaccine works -- there are pretty well defined side effects for some vaccines.

I only vaccine every three years BTW but I would never NOT vaccinate, especially not in a city setting where dogs are around lots of other dogs. A rural remote setting would for me be a different case.

*Pauline*
10th September 2007, 04:15 PM
Thanks Karlin, my confidence in homeopathic vaccines was due to this post back in April.

"I know of some-one, not within Cavaliers, who has always routinely used the homeopathic nosodes in favour of routine vaccinations, she recently took several of her dogs to the vets for blood titres and they showed up the dogs were fully immune to everything! Food for thought."

Here's the link to the thread.
http://board.cavaliertalk.com/showthread.php?t=17864&highlight=homeopathic

Barbara Nixon
10th September 2007, 04:33 PM
Some dogs are naturally immune. Joly's mum, had an adverse reaction to her first booster, having brething problems within half an hour. The vet soon put her right and commented that she should probably not have any more , but that she was probably actually having a reaction to the egg albumen used as a carrier of the vaccine.

When Joly went for his puppy jabs, I mentioned this to my vet, who suggested we stay at the surgery for half an hour, just incase, but he, and his sister, were fine.

People say that the proof of nosodes working is that their dog doesn't get the appropriate disease, but this is similar to claims that such and such stops dogs getting fleas. However, none of my dogs has ever had fleas and ,with the exception of trying Teddy, incase his itching was a flea allergy (it isn't) , I've never used any treatments. In either case it could be natural immunity or more likely, because they didn't come in contact with the disease or fleas.

Having seen a dog turn up at the vets (luckily spotted and ejected in minutes ) with dispemper, I wouldn't risk mine getting it. They get vaccinated every year, because we have a high incidence of parvo here and that vaccine is packaged with the ones which can go every three years, so the boys get the lot and we've never had a problem.

Denise G.
10th September 2007, 07:34 PM
I understand your concern Pauline. My Golden, Wrigley, had a horrific reaction to a vaccine cocktail for leptospirosis/parvovirus/distemper last year. Within 8 hours he was projectile vomiting, had bloody explosive diahrrea and was listless and very weak. We'll be doing titers for these conditions from now on. My vet agrees with this course of action. It's a very personal decision, but I've decided to do titers tests for all his (as well as Mia's) vaccinations from now on, with the exception of rabies. And I'll do titers for rabies, too, if it ever becomes legal.

I'm a firm believer that we over-vaccinate our dogs, but like I said it's a very personal decision each of us has to make.:)

*Pauline*
10th September 2007, 10:59 PM
That must have been so scary Denise. If I do give the homeopathic vaccines, I can always do a titer test after. If it didn't work I would have traditional vaccines.

Bet
11th September 2007, 10:48 AM
I would never say dont vaccinate Cavaliers ,but because Ive collected around 100 Cavaliers' Pedigrees of Cavaliers already suffering from Heart Trouble ,who about a month of having their Vaccination ,their Heart Condition suddenly worsened and they'd shortly afterwards .

If your Cavalier is already suffering from Heart Trouble ,have a word with your Vet asto whether the Cavalier should be being vaccinated or not.

It should be rememered that the advice from Vaccine Companies ,is that only Healthy Dogs should be Vaccinated.

Cavaliers suffering from a Heart Condition are not Healthy

Finally the pedigrees Iv'e mentioned are at a University in Britain being Studied to see what information can be found from them .

Bet

*Pauline*
11th September 2007, 11:03 AM
Thank you Bet. That makes sense, I'm not allowed to have the flu jab myself because of health problems. It just goes to show there's more to vaccines than I thought. On with my research..

I'm told the vet has to give me the prescription for the homeopathic Coronavirus if I ask for it. So now I just need to find out about Parainfluenza. What is it and where can I find the homeopathic vaccine? If I can't find it homeopathically, will the vet give it separately.

*Pauline*
11th September 2007, 12:53 PM
Yay, I've found a homeopathic vet who is also a conventional vet and she is only 6 miles away. They charge £5.99 for prescriptions if I want to use Ainsworths for the meds.

*Pauline*
14th September 2007, 06:15 PM
:updte: Ok the lady in the previous post turn out to be just a nurse who uses homeopathic remedies for her cat!

I got hold of a very good Homeopathic vet who works at 3 vet practises. She said there is no homeopathic equivalent to the usual vaccines. She said she will post me information and I can book to come see her and have vaccines done individually depending on the results of his titer test. I'm sure this is going to cost me a bomb and its a good hour away and I don't drive but it's worth it for peace of mind :D

cy1266
14th September 2007, 06:43 PM
Miles has had a combination of traditional vaccines and homeopathic nosodes (he's 5 1/2 months old now - I got him at 12 weeks old). His breeder gave him the parvo and distemper nosodes when he was younger, and when I picked him up I took him in for a single distemper vaccine, waited a few weeks, then brought him back in for his single parvo vaccine (they did the injection in his leg, not by his neck) - this is what my breeder and homeopathic vet told me to do. My traditional vet was fine with this. Not all vets have the single dose vaccines - they're more expensive, but safer and more effective than the boosters, is what I was told. One reason why I didn't do the booster was because if he were to have a bad reaction, it's hard to tell what he was allergic to. He will now be titered every year to make sure these vaccines are still active; if one or both of them aren't, he will have another single injection. He will not get Bordatella since we won't board him or take him to a regular groomer, go to dog parks/beaches, etc.

He also has a nosode for heartworm protection that I order from my homeopathic vet. He will have his rabies vaccine in the next month or so (which my traditional vets supports - because legally in Illinois I believe they are supposed to get the rabies vaccine at 4 months), then get titered for 2 years, then have the vaccine again every 3 years (I beleive you can get a certificate showing that the vaccine is still active for rabies, but can't go more than 3 years without getting one - but I was told to only get the 1 year vaccine, and that it should last for 3 years).

If my breeder and homeopathic vet agree on something that I should be doing, I tend to listen to them instead of my traditional vet, who doesn't agree with some things I do, like the raw veggie/meat diet :rolleyes:

I'm by no means an expert on vaccines, but just thought I would share what I've been doing with Miles, since it's not the "traditional" way of doing things...

Nicki
28th September 2007, 10:50 PM
It is a very personal decisoin whether to vaccinate and can only be based on your own experiences and circumstances.

You do need to do your own research - this book has a brilliant chapter about vaccination which I think is essential reading

Homeopathic Care for Cats and Dogs: Small Doses for Small Animals (Paperback)
by Donald Hamilton (http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/search-handle-url/026-2847904-7110814?%5Fencoding=UTF8&search-type=ss&index=books-uk&field-author=Donald%20Hamilton), - available from Amazon

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Homeopathic-Care-Cats-Dogs-Animals/dp/155643295X/ref=sr_1_1/026-2847904-7110814?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1191011873&sr=8-1


I personally ONLY use nosodes - I have one vaccine damaged dog and this started my research.

It sounds like you have some good local expertise which is a big help.