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View Full Version : Phantom pregancy? Or one hidden pup?



Andrea Howell
13th September 2007, 11:38 AM
Hi all,:(
I've just been to the vets with Tara to have her scan. She should be four weeks from Tuesday (first mating). We went in with expectations and came away a little deflated. The vets couldn't see any puppies, which was a shock as she seems to be showing all signs pf prenancy. Her teats are enlarged and very pink, she's looking for more food than normal, and she tires very quickly when out for walks (she normally runs around like a little wippet). I'm very confused. The vet wants us to go back in two weeks to check again, as there might be one pup hiding far up in her ribcage. I asked about phantom pregnancies, and she said that it is very common for bitches to show all the signs of being in whelp when their aren't. I'm feeling quite low, as my poor little lady seems to really want to be in whelp. If she isn't, I know that the studs breeder said we can go back again (free of charge), now i'm not sure what to do. Obviously i'll wait to see what the next scan says before contemplating trying again with her next season. Any advice guys? Have any of the breeders out there had this experience?:(
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:lotsaluv: Mummy andi of Tara (BL) :paw:

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Bruce H
13th September 2007, 12:04 PM
I would take her in a week or so before she is due. We have always done an x-ray at that time because it's a little more reliable than an ultrasound. In the mean time, I would still treat her as if she was pregnant until you know she definately is not.

We have had one of our girls go through a false (phantom) pregnancy twice. It's a very strange thing. In fact, one of the times she did that, her milk came in and she insisted on nursing a 8 week old litter we had from another of our girls. Every time the puppies were out with the run of the living room, we had to crate her.

Karlin
13th September 2007, 05:20 PM
Hi Andrea:

I do appreciate (or had previously understood?) that you are working with reputable breeders with your bitch and have taken the appropriate steps for breeding -- eg fully following the MVD protocol and doing all the necessary health clearances for both your dog and the stud. I think this was discussed before. I also appreciate Bruce taking the time to respond. :)

I need to make two points here though:

1) As I stated very clearly the first time you were posting with some breeding questions, this isn't a site for discussing your specific breeding issues and the reasons why are very clearly indicated in the Getting Started section that I pointed you to before. I'd prefer this and any future questions be taken privately or to an appropriate, professional cavalier breeders forum.

2) On such basic issues as this, surely you should be getting professional advice directly from a mentor? This would be the normal route into breeding and showing. Breeding is a serious business both because of the health problems in the breed -- the very high incidence of MVD and syringomyelia -- and the very obvious mortality risk to your female when breeding. A mentor would be able to clarify the possibilities about this situation.

Also -- as I know well from doing rescue and from breed club contacts, Ireland has a tiny handful of breeders who do any proper health testing at all, and the island north and south is FULL of poor (health and conformation) quality puppies. No one needs more cavalier puppies coming into this dreadful market unless you are truly breeding with a professional turn of mind, with the intention to show and make sure your puppies are consistently up to the highest standards on every level. If you are doing the latter, then again in relation to your questions here, I thought you would be attempting to do this with a reputable and experienced breeder/mentor who would answer such very basic questions?

I am sorry if that sounds blunt, but I am a bit baffled that you have made this post, as I did make these points before, they are reiterated in so many other posts I've made here during the time you have been a member, and understood from you in reply, that you were receiving close advice from experts and understood the nature of this board.icon_nwunsure

I am closing this to further discussion. You are more than welcome here to discuss the ownership of your cavalier, share pictures, and ask about any other aspect of ownership (which we'd all enjoy! :)) but please, no further discussion on breeding. If you wish to clarify this issue privately, you are welcome to do so but maybe have a read through the Getting Started section first which should clarify again what is appropriate to post.

Thanks. :thmbsup:

Andrea Howell
13th September 2007, 07:45 PM
This message is for Bruce.

Thankyou for your kind answers you gave me on Tara's phantom pregnancy. You have been very courtious in your reply unlike other people who seem to think they own this web site. On two occasions where i have asked for advise i have been replied to by someone very unsympathetic and an arrogant person. The reason i like this forum is that it has so many breeders on here to ask advice from. And isn't it better to have a collective view of opinions from a few rather than a phone call to one breeder. Everyone differs in opinions and choices they make regarding their dogs. So i like to find out what the majority of you would do in situations that occur with your dogs. It was nice while it lasted but i wont be posting on here again.Take Care.
P.S
To all those that read this remember that civility costs nothing.

Karlin
13th September 2007, 08:42 PM
Andrea:

One might suppose civility includes taking the time to learn the very simple rules of forums you join and respecting those rules rather than assuming you have some special dispensation to ignore them and post what you wish (just because you think it would be 'helpful' to your breeding efforts).

Ahem: also, I DO own this website. Somehow this has escaped your notice, too, I guess. :sl*p:

When you signed up to use it you accepted certain terms of usage. One of those terms as set out clearly in the Getting Started section -- and to which I referred you from the day of your very first post as you had posted asking for breeding advice -- is that breeding discussions on specific breeding situations are NOT allowed.

The issue at stake has NOTHING to do with how valuable it may be to to you, personally, to 'canvass several opinions.' This site does not exist to support people who wish to breed by offering breeding advice. The last thing the world needs is more backyard breeders, more novice breeders working with no direct guidance, and more widespread health issues in these lovely dogs. When that message continues to be ignored, I completely reserve the right to be blunt to the people ignoring it.

I certainly hope you at least listen to those who (I hope) are advising you on proper breeding practice!

At any rate you will be unable to ask your remaining questions on this site.