PDA

View Full Version : Forgive me if this has been posted before



Crosby76
22nd September 2007, 02:16 PM
I bought a CKCS at a pet store. He had me at hello! He wasn't inexpensive at $1700 but was wonderng why he would not be AKC? What are the factors that regulate the AKC? I am not going to breed him or show him, he is our cute puppy! I was just wondering why he would not be classified as such.

Aileen
22nd September 2007, 02:38 PM
I donnot know which store you mean but most pet shop puppys come from puppy mills where they donnot have much care for the parents
I wish you luck with your new puppy and at some time photos please
-----Aileen and the gang (Barney---Jazzie---Sam)

pinkpuppy
22nd September 2007, 05:04 PM
Majority of puppies from a pet store are from what people coin as corporate puppy millers including a few back yard breeders. They breed indiscrimminately for profit and not for the health of any breed. If they provide you with "papers" they won't be from the official AKC or CKCSC which is parent registry of the Cavalier King Charles Spaniel breed. Reputable breeders screen their stock before breeding and they must conform to the breed standards making them a purebred.

Debby with a Y
22nd September 2007, 05:21 PM
icon_welcome I know you will love Daniel the Spaniel (what a cute name!) but gosh, they sure charged you a lot for him considering. I don't know where you live, but where I live, a really good quality pup from an ethical breeder with excellent pedigree is barely any more money than what you spent on him. When you want to get him a companion...and you surely will (they are like pototato chips, you can't have just one!)...please research reputable breeders (or consider a rescue).

I hope you will post pictures of Daniel as he is growing up, he is soooo cute!! Congratulations on your new baby!!! I hope to be bringing one home in about a week myself, I get to meet him tomorrow. :lotsaluv:

pinkpuppy
22nd September 2007, 05:35 PM
icon_welcome I know you will love Daniel the Spaniel (what a cute name!) but gosh, they sure charged you a lot for him considering. I don't know where you live, but where I live, a really good quality pup from an ethical breeder with excellent pedigree is barely any more money than what you spent on him. When you want to get him a companion...and you surely will (they are like pototato chips, you can't have just one!)...please research reputable breeders (or consider a rescue).

I hope you will post pictures of Daniel as he is growing up, he is soooo cute!! Congratulations on your new baby!!! I hope to be bringing one home in about a week myself, I get to meet him tomorrow. :lotsaluv:

*Off Topic* Congrats Debby! Hope you bring your new little pup home soon with lots of pics! :D

back-to-topic

WoodHaven
22nd September 2007, 07:04 PM
I bought a CKCS at a pet store. He had me at hello! He wasn't inexpensive at $1700 but was wonderng why he would not be AKC? What are the factors that regulate the AKC? I am not going to breed him or show him, he is our cute puppy! I was just wondering why he would not be classified as such.

*************************************************

AKC registered dogs MUST have AKC registered (or a registry accepted by AKC in another country) sire and dam. The AKC has the right to investigate any breeder using their registry. There are records that have to be kept etc... You have to DNA any sire used 3 times in a year etc... So the commercial breeders have turned to other registries that don't have these requirements.

The very first cavalier I ever saw was in a pet store. He started my quest for this breed. Best to you, Sandy

Karlin
22nd September 2007, 09:00 PM
First off, every cavalier has the right to be loved and cherished and I am sure you will do that with Daniel. :) No one is criticising your own cavalier when they tell you where puppies sold in pet shops come from. Many of us start our love with the breed from having seen or bought a pet store dog. Others of us have rescue cavaliers from unknown backgrounds, many of them ex puppy mill dogs, and we love them just as much as our dogs from reputable breeders. But one reason for this board is education -- in particular to help people understand why it is so important to look for a reputable, health focused breeder and not support pet shops, backyard breeders, or disreputable breeders -- and how to identify the latter (they can do a very good job of making people believe they are good breeders when in fact they are not).

Pet shops know you will have a hard time walking away from their cute puppies and will part with cash that you shouldn't part with -- because it continues to support a horrific puppy mill or backyard breeding system that you can read more about here. The pictures say it all. Many of us here on the board have seen these places with our own eyes, in the US, Canada, UK, Ireland and elsewhere and pictures and films cannot do justice to how awful they are. Cavaliers are a very popular breed to 'farm' in this waybecause they are expensive in the US (not so much in the UK or Ireland but they are still a lucrative and sad 'crop'):

http://stoppuppymills.org/pet_store_doublespeak.html
http://www.prisonersofgreed.org/

Pet shop dogs come from puppy mills -- mass breeding establishments where dogs are bred in cages like chickens; at best in sanitary but socially deprived and unstimulating environments where the parent dogs may never see a spot of grass, a normal life or a caring hand -- they are basically just breeding machines and are put down after they have bred as much as they can be bred. Very often the dog are not even kept in minimally OK conditions but appalling situations, crammed into filthy makeshift cages where they defecate on top of each other and where they have so little room that their limbs can grow atrophied. :( Occasionally pet shops also get puppies from local backyard breeders. Very often the conditions these animals are kept in is shocking and nothing like the pictures they post about their 'dogs bred inside in a family environment'. In either case the breeding dogs won't be of good quality and won't have AKC or CKCSC (in the US) registration. Sometimes they are registered with the so-called bogus registires as this enables pet shops and backyard breeders to dupe buyers into thinking they are getting some kind of valuable papers. But anyone can register anything for a small fee with these registries -- they only exist to facilitate this whole sad breeding system.

No reputable breeder who breeds for health and conformation (corect appearance and temperament) would ever sell their dogs to pet shops to be sold on by third parties.

There's a lot of information in the Library section on puppy farms/puppy mills, finding a good breeder, and identifying the questionable ones. As others have noted you could easily find a quality puppy bred with careful regard for health and conformation from a show breeder for the price you paid. That's a shocking price for a pet shop puppy biut they know they can get away with it by tugging at the heart strings. :mad:

This page explains in detail about what registration means, about AKC registration, and the bogus registries:

http://www.grimaldilabs.com/BogusRegistries.html

This breed has a lot of potentially serious health issues and good breeders breed very carefully, with a knowledge of genetics and pedigrees, to avoid genetic problems that often crop up in pet shop and backyard breeder puppies. For me, this is the number one reason to only EVER support reputable health focused breeders and why I do not allow this board to be used for discussions of breeding because I do not want anyone breeding as a casual affair -- it is a very serious, responsibility-laden activity. :thmbsup: You can read more about these reasons in the Getting Started section. :)

You do need to be prepared to possibly have some health issues with your puppy as it won't have been bred with any regard for health so be sure you are aware of cavalier health concerns (these are listed in the Library section). I would definitely insure your dog so you have protection just in case problems come up (I always recommend insurance for pet cavaliers anyway but especially for dogs of unnown background). Many pet shop cavaliers will never have any issues at all so this isn;t a given but there is definitely a much higher risk.

Crosby76
22nd September 2007, 09:29 PM
I guess I will take him back then


First off, every cavalier has the right to be loved and cherished and I am sure you will do that with Daniel. :) No one is criticising your own cavalier when they tell you where puppies sold in pet shops come from. Many of us start our love with the breed from having seen or bought a pet store dog. Others of us have rescue cavaliers from unknown backgrounds, many of them ex puppy mill dogs, and we love them just as much as our dogs from reputable breeders. But one reason for this board is education -- in particular to help people understand why it is so important to look for a reputable, health focused breeder and not support pet shops, backyard breeders, or disreputable breeders -- and how to identify the latter (they can do a very good job of making people believe they are good breeders when in fact they are not).

Pet shops know you will have a hard time walking away from their cute puppies and will part with cash that you shouldn't part with -- because it continues to support a horrific puppy mill or backyard breeding system that you can read more about here. The pictures say it all. Many of us here on the board have seen these places with our own eyes, in the US, Canada, UK, Ireland and elsewhere and pictures and films cannot do justice to how awful they are. Cavaliers are a very popular breed to 'farm' in this waybecause they are expensive in the US (not so much in the UK or Ireland but they are still a lucrative and sad 'crop'):

http://stoppuppymills.org/pet_store_doublespeak.html
http://www.prisonersofgreed.org/

Pet shop dogs come from puppy mills -- mass breeding establishments where dogs are bred in cages like chickens; at best in sanitary but socially deprived and unstimulating environments where the parent dogs may never see a spot of grass, a normal life or a caring hand -- they are basically just breeding machines and are put down after they have bred as much as they can be bred. Very often the dog are not even kept in minimally OK conditions but appalling situations, crammed into filthy makeshift cages where they defecate on top of each other and where they have so little room that their limbs can grow atrophied. :( Occasionally pet shops also get puppies from local backyard breeders. Very often the conditions these animals are kept in is shocking and nothing like the pictures they post about their 'dogs bred inside in a family environment'. In either case the breeding dogs won't be of good quality and won't have AKC or CKCSC (in the US) registration. Sometimes they are registered with the so-called bogus registires as this enables pet shops and backyard breeders to dupe buyers into thinking they are getting some kind of valuable papers. But anyone can register anything for a small fee with these registries -- they only exist to facilitate this whole sad breeding system.

No reputable breeder who breeds for health and conformation (corect appearance and temperament) would ever sell their dogs to pet shops to be sold on by third parties.

There's a lot of information in the Library section on puppy farms/puppy mills, finding a good breeder, and identifying the questionable ones. As others have noted you could easily find a quality puppy bred with careful regard for health and conformation from a show breeder for the price you paid. That's a shocking price for a pet shop puppy biut they know they can get away with it by tugging at the heart strings. :mad:

This page explains in detail about what registration means, about AKC registration, and the bogus registries:

http://www.grimaldilabs.com/BogusRegistries.html

This breed has a lot of potentially serious health issues and good breeders breed very carefully, with a knowledge of genetics and pedigrees, to avoid genetic problems that often crop up in pet shop and backyard breeder puppies. For me, this is the number one reason to only EVER support reputable health focused breeders and why I do not allow this board to be used for discussions of breeding because I do not want anyone breeding as a casual affair -- it is a very serious, responsibility-laden activity. :thmbsup: You can read more about these reasons in the Getting Started section. :)

You do need to be prepared to possibly have some health issues with your puppy as it won't have been bred with any regard for health so be sure you are aware of cavalier health concerns (these are listed in the Library section). I would definitely insure your dog so you have protection just in case problems come up (I always recommend insurance for pet cavaliers anyway but especially for dogs of unnown background). Many pet shop cavaliers will never have any issues at all so this isn;t a given but there is definitely a much higher risk.

WoodHaven
22nd September 2007, 09:55 PM
How long have you had Daniel?

I know I wouldn't be able to take him back-- I get attached too easily.

Cathy T
22nd September 2007, 10:05 PM
Heck no....you won't take him back. And I don't think you were saying that seriously. ;) I was attached to both of mine literally overnight. You know.....you'll end up with another...you won't be able to help yourself :cool: Debby is so right. All we can do is educate people about pet stores and puppy mills. I was clueless when I got both of mine (from a breeder but nonetheless knew nothing about the pitfalls and deceitfullness of pet stores). Be sure you have Daniel checked out annually. It's a good idea after the age of 1 to attend a health clinic in your area. The clubs put them on throughout the year. You can get his heart and eyes (at the minimum) checked out by a specialist for a really great price.

Crosby76
22nd September 2007, 10:33 PM
he is the most amazing pup and very handsome (from a puppy mill)

WoodHaven
22nd September 2007, 10:42 PM
If that is Daniel in your pic-- he is Adorable. The pups (and dogs) that come out of commercial breeding establishments are very deserving of love and companionship. Many of us on the board rescue and rehome cavaliers that have come from less than optimal places. I am ALWAYS humbled by how forgiving and loving cavaliers are.

Aileen
22nd September 2007, 11:09 PM
Please dont take him back? I love all cavaliers no matter were they came from but I would love to see more photos and tales about him has he gets older my first cavalier called Mattie came from a puppy farm/mill and I have had 2 others who came from good breeder I have now got 2 cavaliers and 1 mix so more photos please
----Aileen and the gang (Barney---Jazzie---Sam)

stewey
22nd September 2007, 11:56 PM
My first cavalier came from a puppy mill in Ireland. My sweet tri was brought to the USA by a dog broker. She was not in very good shape. A lady here wanted Moosie to a start breeding program of cavalier, not knowing what a dog broker really was. She breed Moosie for 3 years. Then I got her when she was 6 years old, I have no idea how many litters she has had. Moosie is now 11 years old, has always and still is a very healthy, happy, sweet, little dog. Because of my great love for her I got 2 more cavaliers from 2 very good breeders. I never new I would love a dog so much, till I got my sweet little Moosie, and I've had dogs all my life. There is some thing very special about cavaliers.
Connie

pinkpuppy
23rd September 2007, 12:26 AM
Please don't take Daniel back. I am very sorry, just thought I was providing information. There is very little you can do at this point. You will feel guilty if you took Daniel back. No matter where you adopted Daniel from he deserves a chance in a loving home such as what your dh and you are offering. This little guy didn't have a choice from where he came from, but he definitely deserves your love.

Barbara Nixon
23rd September 2007, 10:08 AM
Please don't take him back.', for goodness knows how he'd be treated as 'second hand goods'.

He may not have come from a place dishing out cruelty or ignorant neglect and could be from a 'private breeder' who is seeing 'money', but otherwise treats well and has sound dogs.

Not all dogs from bad breeders turn out sick and some from good ones do. MVD, for instance , has a way of sneaking , unknown, into good lines, as was the case with my Izzy, who died in March.

Nancy
23rd September 2007, 12:27 PM
It wouldn't serve any purpose to take him back and would harm the puppy, but now that you know all puppies in pet stores come from mills, hopefully you'll spread the word. Actually his price was a lot lower than some pet store puppies, and sometimes they will include the neuter later on , and some vet care. We recently rehomed a lovely girl that was purchased at a pet store, but was bought by a neglectful owner and is now very well loved. I would never hold the breeders misdeeds against the puppy. He is very well loved now, and absolutely adorable.