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Emma n Renco
26th September 2007, 06:39 PM
Hi, Harvey is 8 months old and has just beginning cocking his leg, peeing every 5 seconds when we go for a walk - on anything that he can presumably 'mark' as his own territory. This is no problem obviously but he just jumped on the couch and peed on it in several little spots - including my trouser leg! I didn't think they would mark things to this extent? If we get him 'done' will this stop the marking phase or do they grow out of it naturally? (He is begging to come on the couch lying his head on my hand and looking at me as he knows I'm annoyed- cute) Appreciate any advise on this... Thanks

Cathryn
26th September 2007, 06:46 PM
OK, calm down, he's just become a "man" and is very proud of that right now!
You have done the right thing in letting him know his behaviour is unwanted, personnally speaking I am against neutering unless for health problems (undescended testical) or for temperament problems (aggresive behaviour, excessive flagging) but I accept that there are folk out there who do prefer to go this route, that is their right!

Give him a little time to adjust, I believe Pauline had a similar problem to this with Dylan, who stopped marking as quickly as he started? Just be very firm with him if you spot him marking, let him know that you find this unacceptable and put him outside to "be busy" and he will soon realise you are not impressed with his "man" status!!
If you nip this in the bud right now, it will be over before it has started, Oh and last of all, clean up with enzymatic cleaner so that he doesn't smell where he marked before and try to do it again!!

Emma n Renco
26th September 2007, 06:59 PM
thanks cathryn, I wasn't sure if it was something that you could really stop him doing as thought maybe his hormones were contolling it. Thanks for the advise it was a bit of shock
:-)

mishmosh
26th September 2007, 08:15 PM
My dog did it on the bottom of the lounge curtains twice around that age. He hasn't done it since.

Karlin
26th September 2007, 08:19 PM
Neutering stops marking right away in about 60-70% of dogs. In my experience intact males will try to mark 90% of the time whenever they are inside anyone's house but their own. I have yet to bring in a male rescue that has not tried to pee indoors in my house, and then again in his new house, usually the moment he walks in the door which can be really embarrassing. If you leave him intact, you will need to keep him closely watched every time you take him to visit anyone. As you can see from Jen's recent posting on this problem (looking after someone's else's male, who is peeing all over the inside of her house) it can make a male a pretty unwelcome boarding guest.

There are other health and behaviour issues directly linekd to keeping a dog intact. I have gone through these many times, but you will likely start to see a lot of humping and mounting of other dogs (I also have yet to bring in a male rescue that did not try to do this to my own dogs, often causing fights); they will likely be more aggressive, they are more likely to get into fights with other males, to wander if they get out -- they will easily go well over a mile in search of a female in heat. I've noted before that when I did general rescue at the pound, over 75% of all dogs in the pound -- and killed -- were intact males (most often clearly someon's cared-for pet) that often came in after following -- and tormenting -- a female in heat. Intact males also often get prostate problems as they get older -- I have had to have this dealt with in a couple of elderly males and this is NOT the point when you want to hear you vet say that if you do not neuter him at age 8 and with heart problems, he is going to decline.

Health issues are not the main issue I would never home an unneutered dog though -- safety and behaviour and responsibility and weflare reasons are. I do feel some pet owners can manage intact males but in my experience, pet owners are very lax in this regard because they always think their male won't be the one to do the things that intact males tend to do. If you ever allow your male off lead, for example, you will always risk two things -- that he will make a run for it if he scents a female in heat and will be gone forever; and that he will in a moment of your own distraction end up mating with same. The pregnant female dogs that come into the pound (or to ME! needing either a spay when pregnant, which is always a risky and SAD choice to have to make, or requiring months of care) do not get pregnant out of nowhere -- they get pregnant from intact pet male dogs that either are left to wander got out, or had a little rendezvous while the owner walked the dog off lead and could not retrieve their male (or on the lead in a moment of distraction, for that matter). In this sense every intact male is 50% responsible for a litter though it is the owner of the female that will have to deal with it -- sadly, most often by dumping the puppies at the pound.

Consider the case with Ginger: someone else's casual attitude towards their intact male has left one person having to spend 8 weeks caring for three unexpected puppies and left rescue needing to home them, with all the costs this two and a half month event has required in vet care, extra food, time and effort. They costs will not be recuperated and are out of Thelly and my pocket -- and meanwhile no one finds a cav cross puppy any more interesting than any other cross as the lack of interest in the remaining female so far demonstrates. :(

Intact males cause the biggest headache to rescue and animal welfare, full stop -- they fill the pounds, and can endlessly produce litters all their lives. Like most doing rescue work, with either cats or dogs, I get very frustrated by the attitude that 'there's no need to neuter' -- when all that often translates to for the pet owner is, 'it doesn't matter what he gets up to or if there's an 'accident' as I won't have to deal with the outcome'. No, people like ME will. :( Neutering saves a LOT of puppy lives and lets rescue people focus on other serious welfare issues.

Debby with a Y
26th September 2007, 08:23 PM
Re: neutering of males, at what age do you think it is appropriate?

pinkpuppy
26th September 2007, 08:45 PM
They can be neutered as early as 5 months according to my last vet.

Emma n Renco
26th September 2007, 09:43 PM
Thanks for the advice, he is due to get snipped in November and as we are noticing so many other hormone related behaviours we are wondering if these can also be solved in the process. From what has been said it is better all round if we do this anyway. We are looking for an older female rescue dog next year and don't want any requested or un requested humping going on.... hopefully this should also do the trick....

Cathryn
26th September 2007, 09:52 PM
It most certainly will! :xfngr: For you getting a rescue next year, am sure he/she will be adored and loved to pieces! :lotsaluv:

Debby with a Y
26th September 2007, 10:35 PM
They can be neutered as early as 5 months according to my last vet.

I know that they can be done that young, but what is the best age? Since there are no females around, my baby's breeder thinks I should wait until he is 18 months to two years because baby is a very small dog.

MishathePooh
26th September 2007, 10:55 PM
If you're against neutering, please have a vasectomy done. It's downright irresponsible to have a dog in the US (don't know about elsewhere, but way too many dogs here) and not have him fixed (barring age/health issues).

Current age recommendation is around 11-14 months. Please check out this article:
http://www.naiaonline.org/pdfs/LongTermHealthEffectsOfSpayNeuterInDogs.pdf

Debby with a Y
27th September 2007, 01:04 AM
Oh, I am not at all against neutering baby boy, I just want to make sure it's done at the correct time. That article sure is scary though! I only got through the first two pages and saw the list of potential health problems.


On balance, it appears that no compelling case can be made for neutering most male dogs, especially immature male dogs, in order to prevent future health problems. The number of health problems associated with neutering may exceed the associated health benefits in most cases.

On the positive side, neutering male dogs
• eliminates the small risk (probably <1%) of dying from testicular cancer
• reduces the risk of non-cancerous prostate disorders
• reduces the risk of perianal fistulas
• may possibly reduce the risk of diabetes (data inconclusive)

On the negative side, neutering male dogs
• if done before 1 year of age, significantly increases the risk of osteosarcoma (bone cancer); this is a common cancer in medium/large and larger breeds with a poor prognosis.
• increases the risk of cardiac hemangiosarcoma by a factor of 1.6
•triples the risk of hypothyroidism
•increases the risk of progressive geriatric cognitive impairment
•triples the risk of obesity, a common health problem in dogs with many associated health problems
•quadruples the small risk (<0.6%) of prostate cancer
•doubles the small risk (<1%) of urinary tract cancers
•increases the risk of orthopedic disorders
• increases the risk of adverse reactions to vaccinations

:eek:

Debby with a Y
27th September 2007, 01:39 AM
Reading further down, I see that baby boy will definitely need it as he has an undescended testicle.

An exception might be bilateral or unilateral cryptorchids, as testicles that are retained in the abdomen are 13.6 times more likely to develop tumors than descended testicles and it is also more difficult to detect tumors in undescended testicles by routine physical examination.

You know, my animals have ALWAYS been spayed or neutered and I never even gave a thought to the risks.

He's still getting it done...but I will wait until the vet says it's a good time for him.

Caraline
27th September 2007, 12:10 PM
It's downright irresponsible to have a dog in the US (don't know about elsewhere, but way too many dogs here) and not have him fixed (barring age/health issues).

Though your heart is in the right spot, that is a broad a generalisation. :) It is only irresponsible to have an intact dog if you can’t be sure you can contain & control him. I’ve had multiple dogs for around half a century now and there has never been an unwanted mating among mine. If people have good fencing and/or live in rural areas or on acres, there is no reason why an intact dog should be any more trouble than a neutered one.


OK, calm down, he's just become a "man" and is very proud of that right now!
:xctly:

Give him a little time to adjust, …
:xctly:

I am having de ja vous. Not sure if I replied to this and then accidentally deleted it or if I said something similar in another post. Anyway...

I've got intact males. If memory serves, when Sam hit puberty he marked a few times inside the house, but it was a bit of a non-event. When we adopted Sonny aged 2 1/2 we put a belly band on him for a week until we were sure he wouldn't mark. Little Beau has been cocking his leg for several months now, but has never done it inside the house. So for me the intact males are no more trouble that a neutered ones.

MishathePooh
27th September 2007, 11:24 PM
<<Though your heart is in the right spot, that is a broad a generalization.>> snip

Caraline, honestly, what percent of people do you think are able to have intact animals without an "accident" happening? I bet you are one in a million! I make that sweeping generalization because I honestly believe it to be true for *most* people. The people who are capable (few and far between), I know have enough sense to glean over my generalization. Wow, that was way too wordy!