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View Full Version : Buying older breeding stock...



Pavane
2nd October 2007, 11:54 PM
Although not technically a rescue, good reputable breeders sometimes wish to place dogs--especially tired moms--who will no longer be bred. Assuming these are very healthy dogs who have had healthy puppies, but are 2-4 years old, what caveats might you have for a friend interested in an older dog.

What checks should be made?
What questions answered?
What issues with an older show dog?
How well do they transition to a new family/situation?

Karlin
3rd October 2007, 12:02 AM
Well for cavaliers, a reputable breeder wouldn't even be breeding a girl who is only 2 much less retiring her from breeding! The minimum breeding age according to the well-established MVD breeding protocol is age 2.5 so I'd be immediately suspicious if she had alredy had a litter or two by age 2. There may be other reason they are placing a dog that young into a pet home. Even four is very young unless the dog had problems whelping or has been retired for health reasons. Most ex breeding britches will be around 6.

The questions would be generlly, the same as for a puppy. I'd want to know about the parents of the dog, the dog's health history, why she or he is being removed from their breeding programme; I'd want to talk to the dog's vet perhaps or have an up to date health history. I'd want to know about that breeder's breeding programme. I'd want to know if the dog has been MRId and if so what the grade was for the MRI. I'd want the various health certs.

My mother has an ex breeding bitch from a very reputable breeder and so I didn't feel any need to talk to her about her breeding programme and trusted her to give me details on the dog. She shipped Lucy to my mother with a whole packet of information, copies of health certs, registration papers, etc. She was spayed and microchipped.

I have had ex breeder dogs into rescue before and generally don't know their backgrounds as the breeders remain anonymous -- they are homed as rescues.

I would classify homing a retired breeding or show dog from a reputable breeder as a straightforward homing, not a rescue situation generally. Often they will have waiting lists fro their ex-breeding dogs. :)

misty
3rd October 2007, 10:04 AM
I have 2 ex-breeding bitches.

One I would consider a 'rescue'.

The girl we rescued was advertised in the free ads, age 2-3, unspayed. In my eyes, I deemed that to be a rescue because she was relatively 'cheap' for someone wanting to exploit her. I must admit, health issues didn't come into it for us for this lady. I knew I just wanted to pay to get her away from her situation. Her 'runny eye' that the seller described turned out to be a scrunched up eye from a previously untreated injury, she was full of fleas and worms and had barely any fur on her underneath + scars.

As far as buying from a breeder, I would ask the normal questions about heart, eyes, SM etc, about how many litters she's had etc.

Karlin
3rd October 2007, 11:22 AM
Totally agree, sometimes a rehoming is definitely a rescue. I've had several rescue ex breeding dogs through here! You can tell they are from bad situations practically from reading the ads. Megan was amongst those. :flwr:

*Pauline*
3rd October 2007, 01:09 PM
Yes, I agree, 2 years is young to be saying she is an ex breeding bitch. Maybe there is some confusion and this is a bitch that was run on and the breeder decided she isn't good enough to show or maybe too small to breed from.

I was once offered a beautiful bitch who the breeder had bought in at great cost (£800) but she turned out to be too small to breed from. His partner couldn't part with her though!

Bruce H
3rd October 2007, 01:45 PM
If a breeder has a dog 2 to 4 years old that they are rehoming, the first question I would ask is "Why so young?". Like others have said, advertising a 2 year old as a retired breeder would raise a whole bunch of red flags for me, assuming that the dog truly was bred and not just held for breeding. As I see it, there are a few reasons to rehome a breeding age dog:

1. As the dog got to breeding age, it was decided that the dog was too far from conformation (too small or large, poor structure, etc, etc) to breed. No dog is perfect, but it should generally look good with respect to conformation. Good example of this is our girl Eva, who we lovingly refer to as "Our Little Mess". She started out as a puppy looking very nice, but turned out to be way too small and covered with ticking. We can't breed her and we should place her, but neither Kris or I can part with her.

2. If a dog comes up with a health problem like a heart mumer, patellas, SM, etc, many times a breeder will place it. We have placed one dog that developed a grade 1 murmur at 4 1/2 years old. The good news is that the dog is now about 8 and the regular vet still can't hear the murmur.

3. The obvious one is when the dog becomes too old to breed. We just placed a girl that is 6 because she was too old to breed.

As far as what to ask, I would first ask why the dog is being placed. After that, ask all the same questions you would ask when looking at a puppy. If there are health issues, do some research on the issues so you know what you're getting into.

Oh, and I can't speak for other breeders, but be prepared to be intensly interviewed. For us, placing puppies we have been taking care of for just 3 months is tough, but placing a dog we have had for years is nearly impossible. In fact we have 3 dogs where it was impossible.

Jen
3rd October 2007, 07:56 PM
Abbey's breeder kept her for a year, then decided to place her because her muzzle was bit too long. When Abbey was two, I sent pictures to her breeder, who replied that she turned out looking just like her mother and that she shouldn't have placed her, explaining that it was always a risk placing them before they finish filling out. Oh well. Lucky us! :p

Cathryn
3rd October 2007, 10:24 PM
Occasionally, there is a good reason for placing a younger bitch who had been kept for breeding but has had problems in that area, either through infertility, occassionally Pyometra, or even aborting a litter with no apparant reason. Any breeder worth their salt would be only too happy to discuss the reason for their decision to rehome such bitches.
Personnally I find it incredibly hard to retire my breeding bitches into pet homes, they have done so much for me and are incredibly precious, I have 3 maybe 4 girls here right now if I am being brutally honest should "move out" so to speak :rolleyes: But I look at them and think "But she gave me so and so" :( If the right home did come along for these girls I would happily place them, after all they would be given so much more 1-2-1 than I could possibly do so, and after giving me so much isn't it the best thing to give them the same in return?
Also, I would not expect much financially for these retiree's, more in the way of a donation to the breed club rescue or likewise.

Just speaking from a breeders point of view is all!

Bruce H
4th October 2007, 01:03 AM
Abbey's breeder kept her for a year, then decided to place her because her muzzle was bit too long. When Abbey was two, I sent pictures to her breeder, who replied that she turned out looking just like her mother and that she shouldn't have placed her, explaining that it was always a risk placing them before they finish filling out. Oh well. Lucky us! :p

How well I know that feeling your breeder had! There is a dog in Rochester that we placed as a puppy that we were considering keeping several years ago. When the dog was about 1 1/2 years old we saw him at one of the Cavalier Get-togethers. We were just sick that we let him go! But his family was totally in love with him, so I guesss that made it worthwhile. I think every breeder we know has a story like that.

Cathryn
4th October 2007, 01:50 PM
How well I know that feeling your breeder had! There is a dog in Rochester that we placed as a puppy that we were considering keeping several years ago. When the dog was about 1 1/2 years old we saw him at one of the Cavalier Get-togethers. We were just sick that we let him go! But his family was totally in love with him, so I guesss that made it worthwhile. I think every breeder we know has a story like that.

Yup! Has happened to me too! There is also the other story that starts off "I had a lovely puppy who was undershot, so I homed him/her, well I had him/her come to stay with me when their family went away on holiday and wouldn't you just know it? his/Her mouth has come right now! I am so cross with myself, maybe I should have been more patient!" :lol: If I had a pound for every time I heard that one :rolleyes::rolleyes:

sramirez
8th October 2007, 06:05 PM
I too am one of those who have taken in ex-breeding girls - I currently have two girls from the same breeder right now. Sophie was 7 when we took her in - she is almost 10 and does have a number of health issues. I wouldn't trade her for anything - she's my bestest girlfriend and a sweetie. We just picked up Brea a week ago - she is 6 1/2 and tiny. My friend/breeder seems always happy to place one of her retiring girls with me - she knows they are coming into a good home with lots of attention and love.

I'm definitely an advocate for 'rehoming' older cavs - I love giving them the best of their "golden years" in life.

Sheri

Elaine 2
9th October 2007, 01:34 AM
I also love the older cavs, my Cody is a ex breeding girl , she's 8 Ive had her 4 months now and she settled in great, I'm so pleased with her