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gerry
26th October 2007, 09:05 PM
I've been on to a few breeders and have noticed there seems to be long waiting lists for girls and not so much for boys, is there any specific reason for this?

WoodHaven
26th October 2007, 09:19 PM
Many people have never experienced the love of a male cavalier.

There are many breeds of dogs that males are more difficult.

Cathryn
26th October 2007, 09:22 PM
Quite simply the main reason for this is because we can have a bitch puppy whom whilst not quite a candidate for the ring is of good enough quality to breed on with in the hope that one of her puppies will be a show quality puppy.

With a dog puppy they need to be totally outstanding in order for us to "run them on", many breeders rarely keep boys, as once used at stud there is a slim chance of them starting fights with other males on the premises in order to establish seniority. I had this many years back and nothing is more heartbreaking than watching 2 young males whom you totally adore trying to rip each others throats out! In my case my In-Laws homed one of the boys and I was able to continue showing him and using him at stud for many years to come, but these days I think long and hard about keeping too many boys!

It is also why many breeders ask a bit more for bitch puppy than a dog, we are taking quite a gamble letting our girls go!
A while back I kept 2 girls from a litter, 1 became my first fully home bred (I bred both her parents) Crufts Qualifier, and her Sister was retained for breeding as it was their Mum's final litter.
Tragically the girl who did so well in the ring was poisoned at the tender age of 2, there but for the grace of God had I not kept her Sister I would have lost the result of 10 years careful breeding!

Hope this is of help to you??

Debby with a Y
26th October 2007, 09:32 PM
Wow Cathryn, that is an eye-opener!

I don't intend to breed and only wanted a pet so I didn't think of that...however, I think many people think that a boy dog will mark or hump a lot.

Cathryn
26th October 2007, 09:48 PM
I have had some unusual reason's from people over the years for their preference for a bitch over a dog, the most common one seems to be the common mis-conception that bitches are more submissive and therefore easier to train than their male counterparts, I just wish some-one would tell my girls that!! :lol: Some of them are total horrors! :lol:

The one that sticks in my mind most though is the man who told me his daughters were just coming up to puberty and he couldn't handle having to explain to them why a "pink part" might suddenly "pop out" when he was tickling a boy dog's tummy! :rotfl:

Personnally, if i didn't want to carry on breeding I would only keep boys, they are far more loving and loyal than the girls I have found over the years! :lotsaluv:

merlinsmum
27th October 2007, 02:07 PM
Boys are just the best - I think the saying is "girls love you and boys are in love with you" and being "in love" means they are in fact easier to train (and they don't have yucky seasons;))

Cathy T
27th October 2007, 03:54 PM
I think people have such a misconception about boy dogs. I originally wanted a female also. I was concerned about a boy being more dominating, less loving, more territorial, marking and humping. Couldn't have been more wrong!!! Jake is much more affectionate and demanding of attention than Shelby. Shelby is my little scrapper girl.

KingstonsMom
27th October 2007, 04:04 PM
I couldn't live without my boy! He's such a love bug, and he ADORES his mommy.

Celticharmony
27th October 2007, 04:05 PM
Yes, couldn't agree more with all of the above comments. All my Cavaliers have been boys and not only have they never fought with one another, but were extreemly bidable, affectionate, clean and easy to train. Of course we have had the odd mishaps, when they have sprayed a visitors brief case which was placed on the floor, or sprayed a new curtain! These things happen, but are so rare that they are hardly worth mentioning. As far as humping is concerned, I have to admit that with our boys they tended to hump their toys as opposed to us!!! I did see a lot of this with a beagle I owned, but not with my Cavaliers. Hope this helps.

inca
27th October 2007, 04:40 PM
this litter i have had more phone calls for boys than girls ......both are the same price from here

Debby with a Y
27th October 2007, 05:03 PM
Barkley's breeder said that everyone calling him for pups wanted girls...and he had no girls for sale. I told him I wanted a healthy and beautiful little best friend and didn't care about gender. Barkley and I are paired up perfectly! I have only had girl dogs before (all cockers) and Barkley is my first puppy, so I don't think I can give a fair comparison. But I have to say that Barkley is pure joy and I fall more in love with him every day.

So far as cats...I've had about equal in female and male and the male cats are SO much more affectionate and fun. They snuggle more, they seek out my company more, and they play harder. Don't get me wrong, I've loved all my girls, but my boys have loved me more. At present I have one girl and four boys; the boys all get along as best buds and the girl is aloof to three and nasty to the fourth. She is also the only cat I have who is fairly aloof to me.

pinkpuppy
27th October 2007, 08:53 PM
Cathryn, that was sad about the pup that was poisoned. :(

Well, I know everyone here loves their little guys. As much as my pup is growing on me. I still prefer a female over a male. He does seem to love me, but potty training is still a PITA, maybe because he is from a shelter. My preference is for a pup that is not so clingy that seems to fit the males of Cavaliers more. He may be from a shelter though he has gone from "back off" to a clingy pup that would rather cuddle all day with me. We're having such crazy weather here and a "velcro" pup heating up your lap hot enough to make popcorn! ;)

Yvonne117
27th October 2007, 09:54 PM
I dont think gender has anything to do with clingy dogs, I have two males one independent and one as soppy as anything who has to be with you all the time. I originally wanted a female as I was worried about marking etc but ended up with two boys who I may say never ever fight never mark and both have been castrated so now never hump.

Lynn
28th October 2007, 12:12 AM
We have one of each sex and they are both the same age, although not litter mates. Our female is dominant but also crazy lovey and kissy. Our male is more laid back in most ways EXCEPT food & Chasing squirrels. He loves to cuddle and is very kissy to his daddy. Both have been spayed / neutered. Both will exhibit a humping action during play once in a while and I do not try to change the behavior since it's part of their play. The only real difference I see between them (gender wise) is that they pee differently...other than that, I don't think I could tell the sex just by the way they behave. Both are sweet, loving, playful and smart Cavaliers...in my two, gender plays no role except in maybe the colors I buy their jackets & sweaters.

Cathy Moon
28th October 2007, 02:25 AM
I love the male cavaliers! They are sooooo sweet and affectionate. I used to think I had to have female dogs - until I got my first male cav. :luv:

Ginger's Mom
28th October 2007, 02:55 AM
Female dogs will love you.
Male dogs will be in love with you.
:)

Charleen
28th October 2007, 10:56 AM
I have 3 males and 1 female and the male dogs are the ones that absolutely have to be in the same room with me. Merry is more independent and will go sleep in her crate in the dog room. The males want to be in my lap all the time.

However, my most outgoing and people friendly is MERRY. She is my happy greeter. The 3 boys would rather bark and protect the territory and having people come over is a threat to them. It take about 5 minutes to get the 3 boys calmed down and then the visitor can relax at our house. The males then come over and make nice to the visitor.

WoodHaven
28th October 2007, 03:26 PM
About 2/3rds of the people who call me for pups want a female. When I ask why (and I always do), they usually say that they've always had female dogs. When asked why again, they usually say that females aren't as territorial (which isn't always true), and females are easier to housetrain (which again, isn't always true). The last time I had pups to home, 80% were boys. So I had people come to my home to see the boys (they got to see what a grown neutered male looks like, how he acts). Nicholas rolled over on command and let me brush out his belly hair-- they were astonished.

A breeder is more likely to let a pretty boy go to a pet home than a pretty girl- by far.

Karlin
2nd November 2007, 11:37 AM
I've said this many times -- persoanlly I prefer boys but like girls too. I think people think they want a girl as they won't get marking and because as Sandy says, a lot of very incorrect assumptions about differences between males and females. For me the ONLY argument for girls over boys is in giant breeds where the males slobber a lot more and can get really huge; I have personal experience of this being true!

Here's one controversial perspective on boys/girls: I know one trainer (NOT Tara or Lisa I hasten to add! :)) who strongly feels two females should NEVER be homed together as one will almost always end up needing to be rehomed. By contrast I strongly disagree with that view, but her real experience as a trainer for many years is that in two-dog homes, two girls greatly heighten the risk of problems, where as two boys, or a girl and a boy, will be more likely to succeed. She thinks the dynamics change again with three or more dogs and conflict is less likely even if it is two girls and a boy. I feel with cavaliers, conflicts are less likely anyway, whether boys or girls. Anyway it's one trainer's perspective!


As much as my pup is growing on me. I still prefer a female over a male. He does seem to love me, but potty training is still a PITA, maybe because he is from a shelter. My preference is for a pup that is not so clingy that seems to fit the males of Cavaliers more. He may be from a shelter though he has gone from "back off" to a clingy pup that would rather cuddle all day with me. We're having such crazy weather here and a "velcro" pup heating up your lap hot enough to make popcorn!

Pinkpuppy, hmmm, a couple of points here. First, if he is the age you said he is *just a baby* -- and housetraining takes a long time and is always a pain (do not expect a mostly housetrained dog til he is 6-9 months, and a housetrained dog til he is age 1). It is the main reason I tell people to carefully consider whether they want a puppy because there's not just the housetraining, but the chewing, and the need for a lot of extra attention -- these are all puppy things. :thmbsup:

I'm a bit confused about what you are saying about him being 'clingy' though. This is totally normal breed behaviour for a cavalier, and while boys are actually often more affectionate and closely bonded than females in this way, as you can see in a lot of the boy/girl discussions on the board, it is only a minimal difference and the 'clinginess' aspect is pretty much the same (ily actually climbs in my lap more than Leo fro example!). I had thought this was the type of closeness and 'clinginess' that you were actually *looking for*, in your responses to many people's posts in the past about cavaliers behaving in just this way?

Second, I wonder did you have a read through the information on cavalier breed traits here and in some of the guidebooks and club sites before deciding on a cavalier? I know many people are sold on their appearance but as with any breed it's always a good idea to know what you are in for! :lol: For example:

http://board.cavaliertalk.com/showthread.php?p=224196

It's just that you are describing a very normal set of behaviours. If you want a dog that doesn't want to constantly be on a lap and next to you and following you everywhere, a cavalier is definitely NOT the dog to get. The key point and potential breed 'negative' (depending on your perspective) I always make to every single applicant for a rescue, and to everyone who asks about the breed, is at the very top of my guide:


Potential negatives:

'Clinginess': Cavaliers have hundreds of years of breeding in them to make them want close human companionship all the time -- one original role for the dog was to keep people warm, and thus a dog that wanted to always be with (and preferably, on the lap of!) humans was needed. A cavalier will want you in eyesight at all times and will follow you around the house throughout the day, often right at your heels. You cannot just put it out in the garden and shut the door -- a cavalier will love the opportunity to play in a garden if you have one but by nature will find it very alarming and distressing to be left out on its own. Leaving them in this way can create some serious anxiety and hence behaviour problems. They are not following you around because they are overly needy, or spoiled, but because it is their very nature to do so. Some breeders say, own a cavalier and you will never go to the bathroom alone again! :) More seriously, if this level of constant, necessary closeness is a disconcerting thought, a breed more independent and aloof will probably suit you better. Note that cavaliers and other toy breeds generally are ALL bred as companions and these small breeds are not a good choice for those who do not want to offer as well as receive what it says on the tin: constant companionship.


Maybe you weren't fully aware of this? Your puppy doesn't sound like any of his behaviours relate to whether he was a shelter dog (and he is way too young anyway for this to have had much if any affect and had barely spent any time in the shelter as is, going by your background on him, to have any of the rescue behaviours you'd see in institutionalised dogs. He can't have been more than 8-10 weeks in the picture you posted. Difficult behaviours in rescue dogs come from dogs kept months or years in difficult situations. He was simply in more of a kennel situation for a brief two weeks or so, wasn't he?).

I think if you are finding the level of companionship he demands from you a worry at this point, you might want to take some time for an honest appraisal and consider whether it's the right breed for you -- he WILL be like this for the next decade of his life, and in my experience, the boys want and need far more close contact and interaction than the girls. Just something to think about, as difficult as it may be, as the prospect may be a bit daunting of 10 or more years of this kind of 'clinginess' if a puppy seems a bit overwhelming in this regard already. It is only just beginning, as many of us can confirm! :thmbsup:

Cathy T
2nd November 2007, 03:19 PM
The very first thing I tell people who express an interest in Cavaliers is "If you think you are going to come home, pour a glass of wine, check the computer, sit down and watch tv....and have your dog patiently lay in your family room waiting for you....you DO NOT want a Cavalier. This will not happen. Are you prepared to have a dog who follows you from room to room (including the bathroom). One of the number one complaints I hear from people who have gotten a Cavalier without fully researching them is that they never get a moment's peace from their dog. That's the way they are. If this doesn't appeal to you, get another breed, you will not like having a Cavalier"

Jake drives me batty following me absolutely everywhere I go. But I knew what the traits were and I am fine with them. I can't wait to wake up in the morning and get the dogs out of their crates for some loving. And I equally look forward to their going to bed at night so I can get a break. I work at home so the dogs are with me from the moment I get up until the moment they go into their crates. Wouldn't trade my clingy, velcro Cavaliers dogs for anything in the world. But they certainly are not for everyone.

WoodHaven
2nd November 2007, 03:27 PM
Cathy-- you are so right!! I have had people tell me they want a cavalier, but they hate dog hair- they need to leave the dog alone for 10+ hours-- they don't like to groom their pets.
Cavaliers aren't for everyone. I like the fact that my dogs WANT to be with me.

GudrunTheRed
2nd November 2007, 08:21 PM
...My preference is for a pup that is not so clingy that seems to fit the males of Cavaliers more. He may be from a shelter though he has gone from "back off" to a clingy pup that would rather cuddle all day with me. We're having such crazy weather here and a "velcro" pup heating up your lap hot enough to make popcorn! ;)

To go along with what Karlin said, I'm a bit concerned about your comments and I wonder if a Cavalier is the right dog for you. Please think seriously about whether or not you want 10+ years of constant companionship. If you don't want that then you need to find another home for your pup that will appreciate his companionship and find another breed that is more independent.

Sorry if I sound harsh, but a Cavalier is first and foremost a companion animal and have been hardwired to stick by their owner's side. Everything written about the breed explains this and you should have been aware of it. My two guys are always by my side (but not always in my lap) and I wouldn't have it any other way.

Best of luck to you and I hope you figure it all out.

cy1266
2nd November 2007, 09:19 PM
I have to admit that I initially thought that I wanted a female dog, since I grew up with only female dogs (I know, a typical "reason"!) - but I was open to looking at either gender; I just wanted a healthy puppy. When we went to meet the breeder and met the available puppy, we immediately fell in love with Miles. He was raised with all of her Cavs, her 2 guard dogs, cats, and a baby goat - he was so well socialized, and nothing fazed or frightened him. One of my favorite pictures is of him and his "sister" Bea, the goat (click on link below - sorry Flickr changed their format and I can't figure out how to add pictures anymore!). Also, after meeting her other dogs, it seemed like the males had longer, thicker coats, and were more "solid" than the females - we liked how they were a little bigger and had so much energy - they seemed more playful than her females.

Miles has turned out to be the most loving, affectionate, and I guess you could say "clingy" dog ever - I love the fact that he follows me everywhere and always wants to be in the same room - or on my lap. To me it's not annoying at all - it's flattering, and I love that he loves to be with me! The few times that he chooses to be in another room I find myself kind of sad! :luv:

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2278/1831408493_65838b38d4.jpg?v=0

Cathy T
2nd November 2007, 09:35 PM
I love the fact that he follows me everywhere and always wants to be in the same room - or on my lap


Then you've definitely got the right breed!! :) I wouldn't mine to be aloof. I do wish Jake weren't so clingy at times, but that's my fault since I spent 24/7 with him initially. But I wouldn't trade him for anything in the world!!:luv:

Eeva
2nd November 2007, 10:37 PM
I work from home so I'm here all the time and the dogs (two girls) do follow me around everywhere... and I love it :-p Sometimes I try to tiptoe out of the room as they seem to be so peacefully asleep, but no, they're up and behind me. Lovely!:luv: They don't follow the rest of the family quite as much as me though.

*Pauline*
2nd November 2007, 11:00 PM
Sometimes I try to tiptoe out of the room as they seem to be so peacefully asleep, but no, they're up and behind me. Lovely!:luv:

That happens here too!

I tried from the start to give Dylan a bit of independence so that he wasn't too clingy for his own good. I worried about separation anxiety. He's always been very laid back. It doesn't bother me when he does follows me though, I love being with him. I just wish he wanted to sit on my lap! This week I was sitting on the floor in front of the telly and he climbed onto my lap and fell asleep, this was a first and I sat really still so he wouldn't wake up and get off! I was thrilled :D I think he was rewarding me for a long walk and a nice shower. He is getting more cuddly every day.

I wanted a girl at first but didn't really have a good reason for girls over boys. I'm glad I have a boy now though. I'd say the only draw back is that Dylan pees on his front leg feathers! I'm guessing girls are a little cleaner :rolleyes:

sunshinekisses
2nd November 2007, 11:13 PM
I wanted a boy because they are so much easier than girls, but I already had two males dogs in my home so there really wasn't a choice for me. Although I must admit I almost brought home a male tri-colour after meeting the litter.