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Penny
31st October 2007, 09:05 PM
I am seriously thinking of getting a papillon for obedience training and I am wondering how they compare to Cavaliers. Does anyone have both cavaliers and papillons? how energetic are they<

BarbMazz
31st October 2007, 09:17 PM
I don't have one, but I'm interested in them! I'll be watching this thread to see what people have to say about them. From what I've read so far they seem to be one of the healthier breeds. That said, I haven't read in depth, either.

I love their big ears!

AT
31st October 2007, 10:35 PM
I have 1 rescue papillon. she's fantastic, very loving , doesn't shed much , doesn't knot or pick up burrs or dirt , Only needs bathing a couple of times a year & dries instantly ( though that may be her particular coat type)
She does as she is told & stays at my heels on walks & if the others do something wrong or run off she will round them up & tell them off
She likes to be the center of attention & be told she is beautiful. & she gives proper cuddles

Downsides are she is very bossy & very protective. She barks at anyone who comes in or goes out. & barks at strange dogs we meet.
They are difficult to housetrain , its taken me 3 years . she's better but not perfect.
& they have awful teeth so they need cleaning.

She would not be happy if the other dogs challenged her , she is the boss.

She doesnt need a lot of exercise, But she can run like a whippet when she feels like it.

As much as I adore my other dogs if I had to reccomend a breed I would choose papillons first. She's just so much easier in many ways

debjen
1st November 2007, 01:37 AM
I have friends who have Papillons that they do agility with. They don't do obedience with them tho. One is a great little agility dog and the other is a good agility dog. They recently got a new puppy to start out.

Tho my question is why a papillon..instead of a cavalier..Robbie recently got high in trial and first place in Novice obedience at a cavalier speciality and first place in rally obedience and we do agility too (has a couple of legs in FAST) and he is just 2 years old. Cedar has not competed yet (he's just a year) but he is in training for obedience and agility.

Lisa_T
1st November 2007, 02:06 AM
My breeders have papillons and cavs. They say that paps are one of the few breeds who really have negligable health issues, and apparently they routinely make 18-20 years of age. I did notice they do tend to be possessive and one person dogs- the breeder was surprised that the papillion allowed me to stroke her and then pick her up- he said she's very aloof.

AT
1st November 2007, 08:32 AM
My breeders have papillons and cavs. They say that paps are one of the few breeds who really have negligable health issues, and apparently they routinely make 18-20 years of age. I did notice they do tend to be possessive and one person dogs- the breeder was surprised that the papillion allowed me to stroke her and then pick her up- he said she's very aloof.

My papillon wont let ME pick her up . She will ask to be on my knee then when I reach for her run away. it can be very annoying at 2am when she wants to be on the bed & I have to chase after her ,lol
But she didnt have a nice start in life

Karlin
1st November 2007, 10:28 AM
I and my mom considered this breed too. :) I like them but having seen a few, decided they are a bit too small and toy breed-ish for me -- I like a more outdoorsy dog for myself and a bit larger size, but they might well have suited my mom. This is what is nice about breeds; while individual dogs vary there is a consistency that means you can weigh up the pros and cons for you of any given breed and there are so many options! :-p

I am told both this breed and Tibetan spaniel are very long-lived -- which may be a concern for some as it means a much longer time commitment.

I always have found the reviews on this site quite good, for considering what might be the pros and cons of any breed:

http://www.yourpurebredpuppy.com/reviews/papillons.html

Barbara Nixon
1st November 2007, 10:49 AM
I have been intereted for a long time and particularly in the phalene, which I believe Angela likes, too. The appeal for me is small size, long lifesapn, few ailments and a dog which likes working. My son's fiance's mum had a lodger who carried hers everywhere and dressed him in bows, hairslides and clothes; which I definitely have no intention odf doing.

Anyway at the Midland dogshow on Sunday, i got talking to a lady with a pretty pair of tricolours. She had changed to this breed because her back problem meant she must have small dogs and her cavaliers had beeen very short lived ( 7 years, so very unlucky). I mentioned that according to magazines, the breed is hard to come by, but she said they were not, if you were willing to take a pet quality male and could give me contacts.

I then asked someone else if his dog was a phalene, but she wasn't. She had dropped her ears because they were being brushed, but he pointed me to a lady, who I believe is prominant in the breed club and have since found was placed with all five of her dogs.

She was very helpful and explained that the main ailments are slipping patella (in some cavaliers, anyway) and a problem with the eyes (she used initials) but said her lines were tested for this. She loves the phalenes and has recently used a Dutch stud, who produces them and has a litter of four phalene puppies. The problem is that she is keeping the only male, but she has given me her contact details. Also, on asking a friend who is a judge of cavaliers and toy breeds and has owned paps, I was told that this lady is one of the respected breeders, but warned that paps are barkers.

AT
1st November 2007, 11:20 AM
I have been intereted for a long time and particularly in the phalene, which I believe Angela likes, too. The appeal for me is small size, long lifesapn, few ailments and a dog which likes working. My son's fiance's mum had a lodger who carried hers everywhere and dressed him in bows, hairslides and clothes; which I definitely have no intention odf doing..

She was very helpful and explained that the main ailments are slipping patella (in some cavaliers, anyway) and a problem with the eyes (she used initials) but said her lines were tested for this. Also, on asking a friend who is a judge of cavaliers and toy breeds and has owned paps, I was told that this lady is one of the respected breeders, but warned that paps are barkers.

My papillon will not wear clothes under any circumstances. She just refuses to move until you take it off. I'm sure she finds it embarassing ,lol
my mam got her a bright pink sparkly coat. when someone came to the door she gave one little bark then hid as if she was too embarassed to guard the house wearing it ,lol

Before I got her I thought they were yappy snappy dogs with pattella problems.
Up to now she is in excellent health apart from a slightly delicate tummy & a few bad teeth ( fingers crossed , touch wood etc) no pattella issues

She barks at people but does not bite at all even though she is very nervous.

She only barks as protection , never when she see's the lead or in the car. (They have very good hearing so thats probably why they bark at noises more)
My cavs & charlies are noisier in general.

If I tell her to do something she will do it . she hates being groomed but if I call for her to be brushed she will slowly crawl over & allow me to do her , the other dogs just ignore me if they don't want to do something

AT
1st November 2007, 11:28 AM
I and my mom considered this breed too. :) I like them but having seen a few, decided they are a bit too small and toy breed-ish for me -- I like a more outdoorsy dog for myself and a bit larger size, but they might well have suited my mom.

I am told both this breed and Tibetan spaniel are very long-lived -- which may be a concern for some as it means a much longer time commitment.

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I think the record holder was 27 +

They are very delicate , Her last owner also had her sister ( she wouldnt let us take her too) & she had lost a front leg after a break, supposedly from jumping off a chair.
But my girl is perfectly capable of going for long walks.

Nicki
1st November 2007, 04:19 PM
There's some info here from Dogs today magazine

http://www.dialadog.co.uk/breedinformation.php5?breedKey=154


I knew a Papillon who worked obedience, and was very good at it! They do tend to be very much one person dogs though - no going off happily to meet people like Cavaliers do!

I do like them, but they are a bit small for me.

Daisy's Mom
1st November 2007, 05:11 PM
When I was researching breeds, I definitely considered a Papillon. I think they are absolutely beautiful. I decided to keep my original plan of a Cavalier, though. Mostly because I have wanted a Cav for about 15 years, and I thought Papillons might be a little too fragile for our household since I have two kids (7 and 9). And I had heard they were yappers, which my husband absolutely hates. If I ever get another dog (I pray I do someday, though my husband says definitely not because he wants to travel a lot when we become empty nesters), I would definitely look into Papillons. I think both the erect ear and the Phalenes are just so pretty. And their hair seems very much like a Cavalier in terms of texture and easy care.

I also love the look of Poms, but all that hair scares me, and I also think of them as yappers.

cavi lover
1st November 2007, 05:56 PM
The leader of my agility club has several paps who she all works. I find it amazing to see these little dogs bomb around the course. They seem fearless un like my cavi boy who is good but some how does not have the gusto of the paps!!!
How ever they are yappers without a doubt but Jo doe not let them get away with it!

I do agree they are very pretty little dogs but from what i see at club they make up for their size in attitude!lol

Karlin
2nd November 2007, 04:59 PM
Funny how the big dogs are often gentle souls and the half pints are all attitude! :lol:

One big factor in the favour of cavaliers for me was they in general weren't barky -- not as a breed trait anyway. My three are all pretty quiet unless they are excited at a cat outside or Jaspar is at agility or the start of a walk. Tara minded them all recently and was surprised how quiet they were (but then she has dachshunds and a schnauzer... :lol:). Jaspar will definitely bark single barks at me when he wants my attention at everyone at Pet Expo saw. :rolleyes: But around the house he is pretty quiet.

Poms are really barky as are tibetan spaniels, another breed I liked in concept! :) If I had the space, in the next 5 years I'd love to get a Pyrenees, but other than that it would probably be cavaliers, cavaliers or cavaliers (though I love Gus the schnauzer! And Tara's little Boomer).

BTW did people see Bet's post in the breed history thread today where she notes Ann's Son (CKCS breed founder dog) was supposed to have been from a papillon parent!

AT
2nd November 2007, 05:08 PM
Funny how the big dogs are often gentle souls and the half pints are all attitude! :lol:

One big factor in the favour of cavaliers for me was they in general weren't barky -- not as a breed trait anyway.!



At this moment I have 4 dogs in the garden eating their tea . 2 charlies a pap & a cav & guess which one is hysterically barking at nothing . it aint the papillon ,lol

Karlin
2nd November 2007, 05:13 PM
Pyrenees are barkers too but I grew up with one that wasn't at all. Individuals always may vary but breed traits hold pretty true as a general rule. :lol: Shelties -- another breed tht I seriously considered but they can be major yappers. :shock: With cavaliers I got pretty much just what it said about them in the dog encyclopedias -- medium shedders, gentle and friendly, not very barky, good with cats, laid back in the house, velcro dogs, but very capable for outdoor activities including long walks or agility. :rah:

KimNIndy
3rd November 2007, 02:46 AM
i can't help with your original question, but just interest here is a link to my favorite local rescue. this 'spaniel mix' must be a cavalier/papillion mix

scroll down to 'billy' who is luckily at home with a potential adopter

http://www.atlantapetrescue.org/www_ver2/pet_pages/toy/toy.htm

Jen
3rd November 2007, 01:46 PM
...With cavaliers I got pretty much just what it said about them in the dog encyclopedias -- medium shedders, gentle and friendly, not very barky, good with cats, laid back in the house, velcro dogs, but very capable for outdoor activities including long walks or agility. :rah:

When we were researching breeds, these traits were exactly what were were interested in. I like that they are small dogs, but yet they have the stamina of much larger dogs. I'm always correcting people when they oooh and awwww at Abbey and call her a "little Princess" etc. etc. I tell them that she is often the filithiest dog, always rolling in something, chasing something, etc. etc. She's far from the little princess, she's very much a spaniel; my Dad sees it--he's always saying she should go hunting with him!

*Pauline*
3rd November 2007, 03:54 PM
i can't help with your original question, but just interest here is a link to my favorite local rescue. this 'spaniel mix' must be a cavalier/papillion mix

scroll down to 'billy' who is luckily at home with a potential adopter

http://www.atlantapetrescue.org/www_ver2/pet_pages/toy/toy.htm

Never seen so many pretty dogs, it's amazing what people would give up on. I hope they will get homed soon.

Barbara Nixon
3rd November 2007, 05:45 PM
If they haven't room for that little dot, will they rehome the baby when it grows ?

Elaine 2
3rd November 2007, 06:36 PM
So many beautiful dogs in your rescue, l hope they all get good homes soon

merlinsmum
4th November 2007, 09:48 AM
the lady who runs our training class has about 20 papillons. Maybe her eldest is 14 and she is excellent at obedience. Apparantley they pick up clicker training really well. We have a few girsl that do competition obedience with them and they do really well. They don't seem to be yappy as the lady often brings a few to training and they are left in their crates with not a peep.

They are quite pretty dogs but I'd be afriad of standing on them as they so small - its bad enough with my two :p

Arlene
5th November 2007, 05:57 AM
Just briefly read through some of the replies. There have been 6 Papillons owned by my immediate family over the last two decades. 5 barked only a small amount more than my Cav, but 1 definately likes to bark. I found their energy level wonderful, but they are slightly less of a velcro dog than the Cavalier. My sister has two 5 pounders and they are more fragile a breed than I like. Wish they were bigger. I love the appearance of the Phalene.

I also know two Tibetan Spaniels well who are not barky at all. I understood they were supposed to be about average about barking. I am enamoured with these guys even though they are a bit more independent in nature than I like. I've researched the breed a bit. They are a long lived breed with a low prevalence of only few minor health problems.

Teeth can be a problem with Papillons, and as well slipping knees. One of my sisters earlier Papillons had epilepsy as well, and I understand there is a slight amount of that in the breed along with heart murmurs (but only a slight prevalence). The first two of my sister's Papillons passed on just prior to their 11th birthday, one from epilepsy complications, and one from cancer. She still has one that is 11 and one that is 6. My father has two 11 year olds as well, and one is doing great, while the other has some kidney difficulties probably due to age.

A biologist in the USA has gathered longevity study information and reports that the average Papillon age at death is 13. The Tibbie's is 14.42 years, and the Cavaliers is 11.29.

The longevity site is here. http://users.pullman.com/lostriver/breeddata.htm