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MishathePooh
5th November 2007, 12:03 AM
Misha probably has chronic bronchitis. Actually he's probably had it for at least 4 or 5 years. The regular vets weren't concerned, so I never was. Now that we're seeing a cardiologist, he wants to do a lung flush to find out what Misha's cough is. The cough is definitely NOT heart related. Does anyone else have experience with a "lung flush" or chronic bronchitis?

Caraline
5th November 2007, 12:23 AM
I would ask the vet exactly what this means. I'd never heard the term but on doing a Google I see there are lots of products around that call themselves "Lung Flush".

At the vets/doctors/lawyers..... if you don't understand what something is, ask that it be explained fully, and if the explanation doesn't clear up the mystery, ask again.

Let us know the outcome eh. I am intrigued now.

Cathryn
5th November 2007, 12:34 AM
One of my first cavaliers was diagnosed as having bronchitits frequently, this was before we knew anything much about MVD however (MANY years ago!) and it turned out that it was actually a "heart cough" where his heart had become so enlarged it was pushing his windpipe up onto his vertebrae.

Have not heard of a Lung Flush, will follow this with interest, :xfngr: that you can get to the bottom of this, as Caraline says above, if you aren't sure about a procedure ask for it to be explained to you in lay mans terms/ English minus the long technical terms :lol: Good Luck :hug:

MishathePooh
5th November 2007, 02:46 AM
Found out about the procedure. The vets inject 20ml of fluid into the lung and recover at least 50% of that. The 10ml or so is then analyzed for bacteria, parasites and the like. The lungs absorb whatever is not recovered within a few minutes. The only complication is allergic reaction which is under 1%. Now to come up with the $600 for the procedure. That's life with a Cavalier though! I'm just thrilled he's as healthy as he is at 11 years :-)

Caraline
5th November 2007, 09:27 AM
Holy cow!

Karlin
5th November 2007, 03:28 PM
For me, I'd be looking at the bigger picture. At age 11 do you really feel an invasive procedure is necessary? This is like putting an elderly human through a general. Also, does the cough bother him? Happen frequently? I wouldn't really want to put a cavalier that age thru a general anaesthesia and so forth unless the dog is clearly uncomfortable, there's a rea; problem and health risk, there's absolutely no other way to help him, and there's a clear idea of value gained compared to the likely lifespan for the dog.

I'd be wondering whether to just try treating for parasites if that is considered to be likely and isn't too difficult? I assume a cardio would have done an xray to check for heart enlargement as a cause, but if not, that would seem a more obvious starting point too.

I've always found a lot of specialists and vets will encourage procedures 'just to find out' or 'in case it helps as it could help' rather than considering whether the issue at hand poses any annoyance, pain or difficulty for the dog. Also they often will encourage quite invasive procedures in elderly animals. A friend's vet wanted her to do a very invasive procedurefor example on a quite elderly dog that recently passed away, and I just cound;t believe this had been recommended as the dog was already quite an old fellow -- what would be gained? My friend is so happy she didn;t actually do this as he'd hardly have recovered from the procedure before he passed away!

If I were in your shoes I'd sure not want to subject my dog to this and also spend $600 doing so, unless there were extremely compelling reasons. From your description it is hard to know if this is the case as I'm sure there are more involved details! :) But if your vet wasn't concerned, and Misha seems fine otherwise, and it isn't heart related, some minor bronchitis wouldn't seem worth all this effort at least to me.

Just my own view! :)

MishathePooh
5th November 2007, 11:05 PM
He had thoracic radiographs, an echo and an auscultation at least. Def. not heart related. The cough doesn't actually seem to bother him way too much. They did do course of 2 weeks of antibiotics which helped for 2 days and then not at all. This is why the vet thinks it's chronic bronchitis. Maybe I can ask if they can treat for parasites or just give prednisolone ;(

The only thing I worry is that if it does go untreated and his health starts to go, will his lungs fail out quickly b/c of the bronchitis or whatever is bothering him?

MishathePooh
8th November 2007, 11:25 PM
Just wanted to update that the doctor is giving Misha a prednisone trial to see if that helps the cough. So much less invasive, hooray!

Cathy Moon
9th November 2007, 04:15 AM
I'm sorry I missed this post earlier.

Geordie had a procedure when he was a pup with a cough that wouldn't go away. The vet used a scope to view in Geordie's breathing tubes/lungs. He also did a saline wash to get samples from Geordie's lungs. The samples were cultured, and antibiotics were tested to find the best one. Then he was finally cured of his cough. I forget what we paid, but I could look it up. He was given a general anesthetic.

Before the test, the vet was trying different things on Geordie - he was wormed, tried antibiotics, theophylline, etc. Nothing worked for very long, so I felt relieved when he had that done and then recovered.

I might consider it depending on the general health of the older dog - as it didn't seem like a dangerous procedure. I would discuss it more with the vet and look for a second opinion, too.

MishathePooh
10th November 2007, 01:44 PM
Cathy - do you remember what the cough ended up being? We'll see if the prednisone helps, if it doesn't then maybe a lung flush is in order.

Cathy Moon
11th November 2007, 08:05 PM
The vet said Geordie's cough started as a viral form of kennel cough - that's why the antibiotics didn't work at first. Then at some point, it became a bacterial infection. He said kennel cough can be caused by different viruses and then can become a bacterial infection after the virus has done its damage, similar to colds and flu.

MishathePooh
16th February 2008, 03:30 AM
So I had the lung flush done along with the dental. The bad news was the price. The good news is his lungs actually look great. I'll find out about the cultures on Monday (hopefully) to see if there were any nasty germs in there.

I just couldn't justify treating the inflammation without knowing for sure there wasn't some bacteria silently doing damage inside. So my pup probably has very mild bronchitis and may eventually need an inhaler.

The poor guy also had three teeth pulled from periodontal disease (despite only mild tartar). The doctor indicated it was possible the inflammation was caused by the mouth bacteria. In any case, I'm really thankful Misha did so well and is back to his usual bouncy self :)

Cathy Moon
16th February 2008, 03:03 PM
I'm glad to hear he did so well and his lungs look good. :flwr:

MishathePooh
20th February 2008, 03:02 AM
Cultures all came back negative. The vet says no treatment is necessary at this time. Glad my boy is healthy :)

Cathy T
20th February 2008, 03:04 AM
Good news!!!