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View Full Version : Eddie and Lola are small...perhaps too small?



adam53
6th November 2007, 01:16 AM
I've searched the forums and a few people seem to have small cavs but they also generally say that their dogs don't eat or are fussy eaters (Like Eeva's post recently about Hermie) so now I have a quick question on a similar topic- My two Cavs, Eddie and Lola, both seem to be very small compared to any other cavs of the same age that we've come across. Both of them are in perfect health- eating healthy and well (devouring everything we give them would be a more accurate description) and excercised daily etc but they just seem tiny in comparison to Cavs I've seen out and about and even compared to pics I've seen here of some members dogs. It just got me thinking that my two seem very small and could this be anything to do with their health? Eddie will be 2 years old in feb and Lola will be 2 in April. I've attached some pics so that you can see what I mean.

http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff257/adser53/S500077903640x480.jpg

Close up of Lola having a chew (with my friends white german shepard having a doze in the background)

http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff257/adser53/S500077602640x480.jpg
Same again so you can see her paws etc

http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff257/adser53/S500075501640x480.jpg

Eddie and Lola having a snooze beside eachother

As I said both dogs seem perfectly healthy and happy, just small! I couldnt really find any pics of them standing next to anything so that their height could be gauged and I don't want to disturb them now and go looking for a measuring tape but hopefully enough can be seen in these pics to tell their approximate size. I also havnt weighed them in a good while so I cant remember what their weight is. Sorry, this was supposed to be a quick one :)

jld
6th November 2007, 01:30 AM
They are adorable...how much do they weigh? Judy and Dixie

Karlin
6th November 2007, 01:31 AM
Well you'd really need to weigh them in particular, as pictures aren't easy to get any sense of size from. :). Breed standard is 12-18 lbs in the UK/Ireland and 13-18 lbs in the US. They should be about 12 inches at the shoulder (I've posted the various club breed standards in the Library section if you want to take a look). When backyard breeders and puppy millers/farmers breed dogs they don't do it caring at all about conformation (eg fitting breed standard) so you do sometimes tend to end up with very large dogs or less common, undersized dogs. Probably the vast majority of cavaliers in Ireland come from backyard breeders (many of which have IKC certification) or puppy farms.

About 30% of the cavaliers I see in Ireland are definitely much larger than breed standard. Some are really big -- I've had a couple through rescue that are more small springer sized. With some of the dogs, though, it may well be more that they are often very overweight and it is hard to guess what size they actually should be as they are so large and solid.

WoodHaven
6th November 2007, 01:47 AM
I agree with Karlin- we would need a weight to see how they fair according to the cavalier standard. There is a huge span (12-18 pounds) for weight. In the pics (cute by the way) they don't seem too delicate or disproportional .

inca
6th November 2007, 10:20 AM
both look fine to me ..not too small at all but like the others say weigh them

thing is its hard to judge them against others not my cara is tiny for a year old but she weighs 16lb so just right its because my other blen is spayed weighs 21lb and has a coat like a sheep i think this is why cara looks smaller :)

Karlin
6th November 2007, 12:02 PM
An easy way to weigh them is to climb on the scales yourself, note the weight, step of and get a dog and step back on. The difference is of course the dog's weight.

I weigh mine every time I am at the vet so that I can track their health. Yours look pretty normal sized to me. Mine are 12.5, 14.5 and 16.5 lbs and are the right weight for their size with a distinct waist. But not too thin. Of my three Lily actually looks heavy because her coat is so shaggy! Bt she is actually really small under all that mammoth hair. :lol:

JeanKC
6th November 2007, 01:52 PM
Assuming those are 12" floot tiles in the picture, they don't look small to me.

hollyandmel
6th November 2007, 06:29 PM
My holly is really small for a Cav compared to other cavs....she's 16.8lbs but is too heavy for her size and on a diet (posted about before)
She's active, eats well but is just small, tiny legs compared to other cavs...

My cats are nearly as big as her! :rolleyes:

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r171/zippy77_photo/GetAttachment-4aspx.jpg

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r171/zippy77_photo/6FAF18CAFA432961.jpg

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r171/zippy77_photo/DSC00114.jpg

Lisa_T
6th November 2007, 11:01 PM
Of my three Lily actually looks heavy because her coat is so shaggy! Bt she is actually really small under all that mammoth hair. :lol:

Same here. People kept telling me Holly had gained weight, and I was freaking out about it. Mentioned it to my groomer, who is on the show circuit herself, and she said she'd check. Reported back that Holly was just right, and that the 'excess weight' was all hair. Cue normal complaint about the amount of fur Holly has! :lol:

adam53
6th November 2007, 11:52 PM
Thanks for all the replies! I havnt got a scales at the minute but I'll weigh them asap and get back to you. They are perfectly proportional and really are in top class condition healthwise. Both Eddie and Lola come from good breeders with good bloodlines (Eddie's blue eyes were a once-off for the breeder but we loved them) so maybe I'm just seeing alot of oversized cavs around me at the minute. As Karlin mentioned, a lot of the "big" ones I'm seeing out and about are easily the size of a springer. And the floor tiles are 12" as far as I can remember (the pics are in a friends house). Maybe I'm just being overly cautious of them!:)

mhabca
7th November 2007, 07:50 AM
Mika is small as well. She is at 12 pounds, but at 9.5 months, I imagine she will still fill out a bit. I don't notice it until she is beside our cat, who at 16 pounds is a lot heavier, as well as longer and taller. it does seem a bit odd to have a dog that is smaller than the cat.

I don't have any other cavs around here to compare her too. Her vet says she is just fine though.

nana9596
7th November 2007, 03:28 PM
Chloe is small also. She will be nine months on the 14th and is 12 pounds. She is filled out and eats well.

adam53
10th November 2007, 11:40 AM
I was obviously worried over nothing! Eddie and Lola are both a healthy 18.2 lbs (7.8kg)! For anyone thats interested Loki is 65.6lbs (29.8kg) and still has a lot of growing to do! Thanks for all the replies!:p

Eeva
10th November 2007, 12:49 PM
I've just been to the vets with my girls, at 9.5 months Hermie weighs 3.75 kilos and Maija 4.5! And they are healthy. Hermie is just incredibly fussy and apparently going through a phantom pregnancy at the moment. Maija is small too, but is now eating well. People ask me whether my dogs are miniatures!;)

Hollyett
10th November 2007, 10:55 PM
Your two look really sweet and just right. I have two cavaliers, Holly. who is nearly 2yrs, she weighs 8kgrams, and Belle , she is very small, weighing just 6kgrams. Belle will be a year old in December and everyone remarks on how small she is, I have been concerned about this . She is active and has a huge appetite. I went to a dog show a while ago and voiced my concerns to a cavalier breeder, she asked me if Belle had had any seasons yet. I said no as she was spayed at 6 1/2 months, she was horrified and said this had stunted her growth and I should have waited for her to have had at least 2 seasons before even thinking sbout spaying. I felt really bad, at the time I was guided by my vet. I cant undo whats been done and I really hope I didnt stop Belle from developing properly. I love her and she is healthy, just small, If your two are healthy and active and have good appetites I wouldnt worry two much, thay look lovely.

Hollyett
10th November 2007, 10:57 PM
I meant 8 kilos and 6 kilos, Its been along day!

Karlin
11th November 2007, 12:02 PM
Anything between 12-18 pounds IS *breed standard* so no one should be thinking this means a particularly small or undersized cavalier. :lol: Anything around 15-16lbs is right in the middle of the breed standard, not small! However I know many breeders would feel males are getting too small for showing at under 15 lbs -- I've heard show folks say they often won't have quite the right heft and look when down at that size (Leo is this size and people often think he's a girl! But don't tell him :lol:).

Undersized cavaliers in particular should not be bred though -- given the concerns with SM and small skulls (over 90% of cavaliers already have skulls that are too small for their brain size and hence many already have some pressure and crowding on the hindbrain) you don't want to push them down even smaller. Good breeders will never breed an undersized dog (though it is quite normal for some cavaliers to come in at a bit under or a bit over breed standard :) ).

The really disgusting breeders are the ones who deliberately breed for an advertise 'petite' or 'teacup' or 'miniature' cavaliers, which means they are *deliberately* breeding dogs that are already too small and can easily run a much higher risk of intruducing new health problems. Anyone already breeding undersized dogs on purpose and marketing them as such is not going to be following any other aspect of health-focused breeding so avoid these charlatans at all costs.

adam53
11th November 2007, 01:04 PM
Lola was also spayed after her first season (7 months or so) on the advice of my vet. He said to get her done after her first season? Has anyone any other advice on this? Should females be spayed only after their second season to allow them to develop fully? I'm curious now because I'm considering getting a female akita in a few months and I'd like to know if I should leave getting her spayed until she's over a year old? I feel much better after talking to you all because neither Eddie or Lola are fat and are in proportion so everything is looking good! Eddie also looks so much bigger than Lola because he has so much hair, I was shocked to see that they are both the exact same weight!!!

Eeva
11th November 2007, 04:13 PM
I'd be interested to hear about the good age for spaying too. The vet recommended that ours should be spayed 3 months after their 1st season, they would then be just under 11 months. I feel this is a bit young, especially as they are so small. What do you think?

sins
16th November 2007, 02:08 PM
My cavalier is 11 months and in mid cycle so is right for spaying, however I'm choosing to wait until after her second cycle to allow her maximum growth potential.It's just my particular choice as it's easy to mind her as she's small, well enclosed and closely supervised.The jury is out on whether or not to show her at the moment.(She has a few faults...eye shape and fleshmarks around muzzle)
As a spayed dog will not be a showdog anyway, I don't see what difference it makes whether she's spayed after first or second cycle, as long as she's going to be a much loved family pet,you'll have to decide if you can keep her safe until she's older.
As for Eddie and Lola's size, my cavalier weighs exactly 14 lbs and is 12 inches to the shoulder.She's positively miniature compared to almost every other cavalier I see locally.From what I've observed,a cavalier who has been bred from a line of winning showdogs will be smaller than the average IKC reg cav from your "local friendly backyard breeder".
Sins