PDA

View Full Version : Hi, i'm new and...



iLikeCavs
21st November 2007, 12:56 AM
Hey guys. Iv'e been looking at these forums for a week or so and iv'e decided to make an account. Anyways, for about a year now i have been wanting to get a cavalier. Now i'm getting a little more serious into getting one. Iv'e done hours of research on this breed and I think it's the perfect breed from me! :) A friend of ours is a dog trainer/sitter and he found us a good breeder for cavs. Here is the good news, the dog is pregnent and will be having puppies soon and they will be ready to take home by Christmas:D. The bad news is... um.... they're $1800 each:(. That's a little costly. Is that how much breeders usually sell them for? We might be able to negotiate the pirce a little... maybe a couple hundred dollars. So, is this a normal price for a cavalier? Thanks for the help:rolleyes:

Cathy T
21st November 2007, 01:09 AM
Where are you located? That's definitely the going rate in the U.S. (actually it's usually even more!). How exciting for you!!

Claire L
21st November 2007, 01:13 AM
[quote=iLikeCavs;236000] Here is the good news, the dog is pregnent and will be having puppies soon and they will be ready to take home by Christmas:D. The bad news is... um.... they're $1800 each:(. That's a little costly.

Hi and welcome! I'm no expert here but if as you say ; the dog is pregnant and will have puppies soon and they will be ready to take home by Christmas then :yikes:yikes:yikes Christmas is only FOUR weeks away!!
Most puppies go to their new home at about ten to twelve weeks old.
As far as the price goes, I think that is probably below the norm in the US BUT I could be wrong.
I'm sure Karlin or some of the other more experienced people and Breeders on here will come on and advise you.

Good luck in your search for a healthy well bred Cavalier.

Cathy T
21st November 2007, 01:16 AM
Oohhhh....good point Claire!! Obviously I didn't read that closely enough! Yikes....no way they would be ready at Christmas. Yes, that is a little below standard but it depends on where in the States you are. Here in Southern California a pet quality dog from a respected breeder is minimum $2000.00.

pinkpuppy
21st November 2007, 01:23 AM
icon_welcome Depending where you are located that is the minimum going rate for a male puppy. It's twice that amount on the east coast. Good luck! Can't wait to meet your new puppy.

iLikeCavs
21st November 2007, 01:54 AM
Thanks for the replies. Is it really twelve weeks??? By the way the dog will give birth sometime this week. Wow, I was certain that you could have brought it home by maybe 4-6 weeks. Actually a friend of mine brought his lab home at 5 weeks. I'm pretty clueless:o:o Thanks for the help anyways:)

Cathy T
21st November 2007, 02:45 AM
I'm pretty clueless:o:o Thanks for the help anyways:smile:


That's what we're here for ;) Typically a Cavalier should not be homed before 10 weeks. I got Jake at 10 weeks and Shelby at 12 weeks. Shelby's was so much better socialized and developed at 12 weeks...but 10 weeks is typical. 4-6 weeks is definitely way too young. They need their mommy's and sibling's guidance and experiences so much in this crucial stage.

Karlin
21st November 2007, 02:47 AM
There's a lot of info in the Library section of the site on finding a good breeder. I would follow the recommendations there to a 'T'. You need an AKC or CKCSC registered breeder as an absolute MINIMUM with puppies all properly registered. But there are some health certs you will want to see and any breeder in the US homing puppies before 10 weeks minimum (12-16 is more normal) is definitely suspicious. In most US states it is illegal to home a puppy before 8 weeks. But that is really very young for small breed puppies plus if you take the pup at an older age from a reputable breeder you will likely have a partially housetrained and crate trained puppy too.

And as others have noted $1800 is actually a bit on the low side in many US states. So you'd really want to grill this breeder to make sure they are cardiac testing and have the certs to show for it, doing eyes/hips/knees, are aware of and willing to talk to you about syringomyelia and Mitral Valve Disease (the two big and serious and potentially costly genetic issues in the breed). Going with a reputable health focused show breeder even if the puppies cost a lot more likely means longer term *savings* not just on health issues easily introduced by sloppy breeding but also you will have advice for life on your pup. People who just breed 'pets' are only in it for the money and very unlikely to bother with health testing or even keeping their dogs looking like proper cavaliers -- because they only care about pocketing the money for the puppies, regardless of what they say on their websites.

Unless your trainer really knows the breed well enough to recommend the breeder, and the breeder fits the full profile of a reputable show breeder, it is better to go to the club websites or attend some shows, get to know some breeders, and take your time to find exactly the right person. Any reputable breeder will likely first need to interview YOU about taking one of their puppies :) and often there will be a waiting list -- so again, I'd be very suspicious of a breeder with a pregnant dog that has those puppies available for rehoming.

This is an expensive breed for many reasons though many purebreds from good breeders are in the same general area of cost. You will easily spend that $1800 again every year in basic vet visits, spay/neuter, dog food, toys, boarding costs, daycare or dogwalker if you work all day etc. So it's good to also consider the bigger and longer term picture and financial costs as these often can be difficult for people to manage at certain points in their lives.

WoodHaven
21st November 2007, 03:47 AM
Hey guys. Iv'e been looking at these forums for a week or so and iv'e decided to make an account. Anyways, for about a year now i have been wanting to get a cavalier. Now i'm getting a little more serious into getting one. Iv'e done hours of research on this breed and I think it's the perfect breed from me! :) A friend of ours is a dog trainer/sitter and he found us a good breeder for cavs. Here is the good news, the dog is pregnent and will be having puppies soon and they will be ready to take home by Christmas:D. The bad news is... um.... they're $1800 each:(. That's a little costly. Is that how much breeders usually sell them for? We might be able to negotiate the pirce a little... maybe a couple hundred dollars. So, is this a normal price for a cavalier? Thanks for the help:rolleyes:

If initial price is a problem-- have you considered getting a rescue cavalier? Lucky star cavalier rescue had almost 30 cavaliers in need of homes. The CKCSCR also has some too. (just another option). Sandy

iLikeCavs
21st November 2007, 04:53 AM
Thanks for the help guys! :) Maybe I might consider doing a bit more homework. :-| Well i'm meeting up with the breeder soon and sure remember to ask lots of questions. I have getting a lot of good information here: http://www.i-love-cavaliers.com. Take a look if your want and thanks again!

simonrickell
21st November 2007, 01:31 PM
we got all our cavs (4) from very good breeders and got them all at 7 weeks of age ,,
they are ready to leave there mother by then ,other wise the breeder wouldent have let them go ,

Claire L
21st November 2007, 01:51 PM
we got all our cavs (4) from very good breeders and got them all at 7 weeks of age ,,
they are ready to leave there mother by then ,other wise the breeder wouldent have let them go ,

I got my Rudee at eight weeks old and looking back now I realise that she would have benefitted greatly had she stayed with the breeder for another two to four weeks. If ever I was to consider buying a pup from a reputable breeder, there is no way that I would take home a pup under twelve weeks old.

Bruce H
21st November 2007, 02:09 PM
The CKCSC (Cavalier Club) ( http://www.ckcsc.org ) Code of Ethics states that the minimum age for puppies to leave is 8 weeks, but prefer 10 to 12 weeks. If the breeder is a member of the Cavalier Club and abides by the Code of Ethics, then you will have to wait a bit longer.

IMHO, 8 weeks is too young. I think the youngest we ever let a puppy leave was around 10 1/2 weeks; we normally wait until 12 weeks. Cavaliers seem to mature more slowly than a lot of other breeds and we see the time frame of 8 weeks old to 12 weeks old as the time that our puppies learn a LOT about being a dog from the adults in our house.

As to cost, yes $1,800 and up from the breeders I consider to be good breeders here in the US. Sandy's suggestion of a rescue is a good one if cost is an issue for you. There are a lot of wonderful dogs in rescue that need a loving home.

I would suggest reading everything there is on this site. There is a TON of excellent information here that varies from just general information to very specific and detailed information. I really don't think there's anything you can ask about Cavaliers that someone won't have a good answer for.

WoodHaven
21st November 2007, 02:18 PM
Not to put that site down-- but there are better authorities on the breed.

www.ckcsc.org the USA first national club


www.ackcsc.org the parent club for the AKC


www.thecavalierclub.co.uk

many countries have their own cavalier club-- most agree on basic things in the breed standard (plus or minus a bit or just wording)

Daisy's Mom
22nd November 2007, 05:02 AM
I concur with others that the price is reasonable for the U.S., but ONLY if it is from a reputable breeder that does all the health testing, breeding protocol, etc. In the midwest, $1800 - $2000 would be normal for a pet quality puppy from a reputable show breeder like I described. As others have said, on either coast, the going price for a Cavalier would be more like $3000 +.

I see Cavalier puppies listed in the local paper every week for $500-$1000, and you just know for sure they are from puppy mills. Poor mamas and papas (and babies).

However, I will have to say that recently I have seen 2 ads that say the parents are heart and eye tested, are on premises, and they are from champion bloodlines (I know that last bit probably means nothing). The price is about $700, which was very, very surprising. At least they used the word Blenheim, though, (as opposed to red and white or some such nonsense) and knew that heart and eye testing was an issue. Either they know enough about the lingo to give the false impression of good breeding, they don't know the going price, or they are desperate for some reason. My vet told me one of his clients (who he said was a wonderful older woman) was planning to breed her Cavalier basically for fun and she would probably be wanting to sell the pups at a low price. Maybe the ad is hers. I hope she did her research, but I'm betting not.

But, as others have said, if the breeder is willing to send pups out at 7 weeks, that is a huge red flag. One of the obvious puppy mill ads in our paper said 7 weeks, and I just cringed.

I'm so glad we got Daisy the right way, from a great breeder. She was 10 weeks old. I wish we could have seen her when she was younger (we were not in the same state as the breeder so we only had pictures to look at), but I wouldn't have wanted to actually take her home too soon. My husband almost had a coronary about the price, but I feel OK about paying a higher price knowing that the money is going to a good breeder (she also does rescue work). If Daisy ends up with health problems, at least I'll know I did everything I could.

Bruce H
22nd November 2007, 01:34 PM
I My vet told me one of his clients (who he said was a wonderful older woman) was planning to breed her Cavalier basically for fun and she would probably be wanting to sell the pups at a low price. Maybe the ad is hers. I hope she did her research, but I'm betting not.


I'm betting not, too. Typical Backyard Breeder who doesn't have a clue, I'm betting.

Every single reputable breeder I know sells their puppies on restricted papers, which means the puppy buyers are not allowed to breed their dog. If this person is breeding her dog, she either got it from a mill or broker who doesn't care (and she won't have any idea of health history) or she got it from a reputable breeder and is in violation of her contract. Additionally, no reputable breeder is going to give her stud service, so again no reliable health history on the sire's side. If her dog is registered with AKC or CKCSC, she will also not be able to register any of the puppies because of the restricted papers. She would have to go with one of the bogus registries; which is why a puppy registered with one of the bogus registries should be such a huge red flag.

I guess I got whipped up a bit about this, but I get so frustrated with the people who just breed with no thought about health or longevity.

Daisy's Mom
23rd November 2007, 04:23 PM
Bruce,

I know what you mean. I had the exact same reaction. When my vet told me about her, I had to bite my tongue not to lecture him about not lecturing her! Which he apparently didn't, since he was telling me about her plans. I know I probably should have said something, but I guess I was uncomfortable coming across as a know-it-all, especially since our vet goes to our church and I see him every Sunday. I guess I'm a wimp. I also fear that he knows very little about the health problems of Cavaliers because I mentioned SM to him one time and he didn't really say anything. There are only maybe 5 or 6 Cavaliers in our town, and I think he (or at least one of the vets in his practice) sees at least 3 of them.

I have been tempted to call the ad in the paper, though and grill them a little bit about how they went about selecting moms and dads, etc. I talked to a very nice Cavalier owner at a dog show once who said she had called an ad in the paper before and started asking lots of questions, and the lady hung up on her!

When I was looking for a puppy, I emailed quite a bit with a breeder who had a nice-looking website and talked about their careful breeding, etc. I asked so many questions, eventually she responded with "I'm sorry, the puppy is sold." Then, a month later, I saw the puppy still on the website with updated pictures. Apparently, she didn't like me asking questions that she obviously didn't have the right answers to.

Cathy T
23rd November 2007, 05:49 PM
Either they know enough about the lingo to give the false impression of good breeding,


I think you nailed it with this comment. The BYBs know the lingo and know what people want to hear and respond accordingly. It's up to us to dig deeper to get at the truth. Don't take anyone's word, ask to see certificates and ask questions. If, as happened to you, they blow you off because you ask too many questions....there's a reason they don't want to talk to you further, you've got them figured out.