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View Full Version : That's it - I'm hooked!!!



CavyMom
30th December 2007, 02:55 AM
I can't believe it's only been a little over 2 weeks since Amber came home with me, I'm so totally in love with her and she's caused me to now fall totally in love with all cavaliers!!! My Italian Greyhounds are much higher energy and even though I comb Ambers ears and feathers daily, I still view her as much lower maintenence then my IGs. I must admit, I'm already considering getting another cavalier so Amber has one of her own kind to relate to!!! But I need some help searching, I need advice deciding which way to go here.

At this point I'm not sure if I want a rescue cavalier or another show cavalier, but I'm leaning towards a show cavalier. That in mind - Even though I'm totally in love with Amber, I'm thinking it'll be atleast 6 months or a year before I'm actually going to bring another cavalier home - In the mean time, can anyone point me in the direction of some reputable cavalier breeder in the US? Driving and/or flying and bringing the puppy back in the cabin isn't an issue (I refuse to have a puppy shipped). I'm in Utah, but I don't really care about distance, as long as it's within the US or Canada. A breeder that does ALL health testing is a must!!!

Also, I've heard alot about Sheba cavaliers and I've seen that kennel name alot of places in the cavalier world - Does anyone know how to contact them or if they're a reputable kennel?

Any other advise on trying to screen and look for a breeder? I realise that reputable breeders are going to have a waiting list which I don't mind in the slightest(heck, the waiting list for puppies when I breed my show IGs is atleast 1 year - Usually longer since I only have a litter every year to year and a half!), I'm in no hurry, I just want to start researching breeders now so when I am ready I've already got the balls rolling :)

merlinsmum
30th December 2007, 11:11 AM
i think there are some links in the library section on how to find a reputable breeder :)

Charleen
30th December 2007, 02:19 PM
I know of another cavalier owner in Utah. I sent you a private message with the details.

Good luck on your search. You definitely want to start your search early, because it can take awhile. However space out your next arrival. You want Amber to be totally settled in your house and feeling safe and secure, before introducing another dog.

I think I added my 4th dog too quickly and my 3rd dog hadn't figured out where he fit in, before I brought in dog #4. I only had 4 months between these 2 introductions. It caused a lot of anxiety for all the dogs. We have finally worked through it, but for about 9 months it was a little crazy around here until everyone figured out where they belonged in the pack.

CavyMom
30th December 2007, 02:54 PM
Thank you for the PMs! I'm in no hurry to get another cavalier, as I mentioned earlier - I expect my search to take me atleast 6 months to a year. If I'm going to go out and spend $1500 - $3000 or possibly more on a puppy, I have very high expectations of the breeder!!! And I know it's going to take a while to find such a breeder.

Karlin
30th December 2007, 04:14 PM
Ahh see now you have our shared illness. :lol:

I am sure Bruce and some of our other show breeders will have advice. :) Bruce has recommendations on getting involved in showing (and perhaps, the responsibilities of breeding) in his litter forum. This is a great post he made after documenting his two litters in what remains one of our most-read forums:

http://board.cavaliertalk.com/showthread.php?t=9970

The main point though is that a 6 month window isalmost certainly too narrow for what you are thinking about if by show puppy you mean one you want to show that is show quality (it sounds like this is the case :) ). However, probably no reputable, health focused show breeder is going to sell you a show-quality puppy right away though if you have been showing IGs this should be easier. If you are seriously interested in a show quality dog and getting involved in showing, the starting point is to join the regional breed club, start attending shows, and get active and look for a mentor who will work with you. :thmbsup: Most show dogs are initially co-owned and the breeder retains a controlling interest and this seems particularly true in cavaliers in the US.

I don't allow breeders to be discussed publicly on the board but one of the show breeders might be willing to discuss particular breeders in your region. :thmbsup:

CavyMom
31st December 2007, 04:27 PM
Thanks Karlin :) I've been showing my IGs for about 3 years now if I remember right in both AKC and UKC shows, my boy is currently the #3 Italian in the UKC (he was #1, but I don't travel much, so he got bumped out of position). I have no problem with a co-ownership with a responsible breeder - Heck, with the litter I bred I even co-own the pets, the sad reality is that without co-owning a puppy, there's no way to inforce a contract. Even though I will NEVER breed Amber avain for any reason (she's already had 3 litters before she came to me which in my book is plenty for any dog!), I also intend to show Amber to learn how to show a Cavalier, and have many freinds around that are involved in the breed and actively show that I'm sure will help me out while I learn how to show and groom this breed for the showring. But even though I trust them for showing, I have VERY strict guidelines of what I expect out of a breeder, and they don't meet my expectations. In my eyes - A breeder that has more then one or two litters a year at most probably doesn't have the breeds best interest in mind.

Karlin
31st December 2007, 04:42 PM
I'd disagree with the last point -- I know a lot of superb breeders who have more than one or two litters a year both to support their own show programme and to produce puppies bred with health and conformation as priorities. Plenty of very small breeders will never feel any great need to do the things I consider important -- follow the MVD protocol, MRI their breeding stock -- because they won't see enough 'payback' -- it is hard to try to recoup some of the cost of an MRI in a single litter of 2-4 puppies and hard for a lot of these small breeders to feel very motivated to search for scanned sires or dams -- hard enough as is to find them if one has a low profile involvement with the breed to start with. It is easier to argue that your bitch has always seemed perfectly healthy, doesn't scratch (even though lots of SM dogs don't scratch!), and you are breeding so few puppies that you convince yourself it isn't worth your time or money to scan. Most of the truly involved breeders I know that really focus on health breed at two or more litters a year and have enough dogs that they are concerned about their genetic lines and conserving what is best within them. They show enough that many dogs from their line are under public scrutiny, not just a one or two dogs that they show now and then. If they are not yet scanning they are watching developments closely and have a deep concern about where to go next because of the high rate of SM the breed seems to have.

I know there are some very health focused small breeders out there, but the majority of those I consider exemplary in their breeding practice are producing at least two litters a year from a strong breeding programme.

On the other hand I also know of some breeders producing many litters who are of very high profile on both sides of the Atlantic who say all the right things but what they actually do is another story entirely. Their policy seems to be 'do as I say but not as I do.'

If you have very high standards and can show your bona fides I have no doubt you will find a reputable breeder willing to work with you. Just beware of thinking certain breeders look good based on their websites or general chatter or their public profile. Research what they actually do regarding hearts and SM. Not what they say: what they do. Ask to see scans and cardiac certs and find out what age they actually started breeding their bitches/dogs and whether their parents in turn were age 5 or older and had heart clear status up to age 5. I know of quite a few high profile breeders breeding dogs at age 1-2 -- way under the MVD protocol. That may be why the rates of MVD have barely altered in a decade -- too few breeders actually follow the protocols. Of those that do that I know about, they consistently produce cavaliers living 10-14 years on average. That's why I am so health-focused on this site -- I am sick of the health of the breed being sacrificed to make money or win prizes or so someone can enjoy their hobby. The breed has to come first for any truly committed breeder. That means doing right by them, healthwise.

CavyMom
31st December 2007, 05:44 PM
Very true, and I guess the number of litters isn't as important, especially after what you said, it makes alot of sense!!! I have many of the same problems with IG breeders, I see far to many breeders that CLAIM they health test, but many of them that means somethings where checked but not all, and usually it was only done once at a young age, never rechecked. And with hearts - Unless a certified cardiologist does the test, it's worthless IMO. If a breeder has 4-5 litters, I don't have a huge problem with that - It's the breeders that even though they may health test, that ALWAYS have 1-2 litters to sell, and one litter waiting that I have a problem with. And I'm glad you brought up the point of SEEING the proof of the tests, that's definatly something I'll insist on. I want a dog that'll live more then 10 years, I love my dogs dearly which is why I want to be so careful to make sure that health is paid careful attention to. Health guarantees are nice, but worthless to me since most of them they'll only replace the dog if you return it, and personally, even if I buy a show quality puppy and through some fluke it comes down with MVD or anything else that'll make it so the dog can't be shown or bred, then I'd just spay it and do what ever it took to keep the dog healthy and comfortable for as long as possible, when a dog comes into my family, it stays no matter the cost of keeping it healthy!

Karlin
1st January 2008, 08:24 PM
You have all the right approaches so I hope you can find just the right puppy now. :)

CavyMom
1st January 2008, 08:41 PM
Thanks :) I'm in no hurry, I've contacted a few breeders, including Bruce, and if nothing else hopefully these breeders I've contacted can help educate me more on Cavaliers and assist me with my search for the right breeder :)

Rj Mac
1st January 2008, 08:47 PM
Thanks :) I'm in no hurry, I've contacted a few breeders, including Bruce, and if nothing else hopefully these breeders I've contacted can help educate me more on Cavaliers and assist me with my search for the right breeder :)

We wish you all the very best in your search for the right breeder and pup:thmbsup:

CavyMom
2nd January 2008, 04:13 PM
Thank you :) I'm glad people refured me to the CKCS website - ALOT of good info on there on how to screen breeders and even referals, great place to get started with my search!! One thing I'm confused on, does CKCS run their own shows as well?