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TillyTommy
30th December 2007, 11:05 PM
As you may know from previous posts I have had problems with Tommy 7.5 years old for a few years now. He has had a heart murmour for years now but it has never been graded, for the past 2 years he has had on and off severe pain in back end, walking funny, yelping in severe pain, weakness in hind quaters...this comes and goes but each attack seems worse then the one before. I have noticed the fast few months very often his breathing is sooo rapid. He is laying next to Tilly now and I have watched carefully and his breathing is 3 beats to her 1. He is seeing the vets on 7th Janaury. What should I be asking them. Time and time again besides saying he has a murmour they have never come to any conclusion as to whats wrong with his back end problems. The have treated him with Metacam and Rimadyl for pain. I dont know where to go with this next although I am making them look at him again. his last bad attack on hind end weakness and yelping was in July, No attack since then....they even suggested he be put to sleep - I am stumped:(

Gem
30th December 2007, 11:17 PM
Im no expert so cant really offer any advice. But I hope he gets better soon. Have you tried another vets for a 2nd opinion?

Karlin
30th December 2007, 11:21 PM
This sounds like it may well be syringomyelia. There are painkillers which would probably help him greatly. I've got a lot of information including a treatment diagram, symptoms document and Clare Rusbridge's introduction to the condition that you can download and take to your vets. Are your vets doing anything for his heart problems as well?

www.smcavalier.com

There are lists of neurologists on the site that do low cost MRIs or would at least do a clinical exam (as his heart condition is so advanced I'd not do an MRI nor consider the surgery option for SM if he seems to have it but I'd hurry to get him onto some pain treatments for it. There is a free trial at the Royal Vt College and you could check on this -- info posted in the SM forum). I would try to find a vet familiar with the condition if your vets are not willing to investigate this possibility. Probably at least 50% of all cavaliers will eventually develop SM so this should definitely be checked. I would ask that he be put on frusemide if he isn;t already as this will also help his heart and also, gabapentin (neurontin). If the vets are not treating for his heart I would try another vets that take a more active care approach. If he is short of breath and hyperventilating he really needs to be on some heart meds if he isn't yet. Good luck and let us know how you get on.

TillyTommy
30th December 2007, 11:23 PM
Exactly what I was just discussing with my husband. We were told 2 years ago they thought for certain he had prostrate cancer - turned out not to be true, they we were told he just had a compacted bowl, which they cleared and now were are told he had "some sort of nerve problem" He suffered so badly in july we went to the vets for the third time on a friday and i was told if he was the same putting him to sleep on the monday would be the kindest thing for him - thankfully but the sunday night he began to improve. Other then the rapid breathing he is a happy chap, eating well, walks and playing

TillyTommy
30th December 2007, 11:26 PM
No he is not on anything for his heart, only meds listed when he is in pain. I am going to look into the information you have sent and do what you have suggested. He has struggled to jump on the sofa for at least 3 years now. He gets up in the end but hesitates and has to have a few goes before he makes it!

Karlin
30th December 2007, 11:28 PM
I'd change vets I think and get a second opinion. Also if you look at the list of low cost MRI clinics, you could call one near you and see if they can recommend a vet in your area familiar with SM. I'd also contact the Royal Vet Clinic about the trial. There are links for the trial on the main page of my SM site in the side column.

Caraline
30th December 2007, 11:37 PM
Poor wee man. I wondered about SM too as soon as I saw your post. I see Karlin has that covered. In the absence of an obvious reason for panting (eg heat or exercise), they pant when they are in pain or otherwise distressed.

I sure hope you can get some help for him. :xfngr:

TillyTommy
30th December 2007, 11:37 PM
Thanks Karlin - the reason he is going back to vets on the 7th January is because I had to take Tilly for a small op - I had never seen the vet before and she told me she was a locam and traveled around. I began discussing Tommy, she specialised in heart and nerve problems. She is at the surgery again on the 7th so booked Tommy in to see her. She too felt he should have something for his heart simply based on what i told her and she mentioned SM. So I thought "wow a breathe of fresh air"! i know she will only be at surgery now and again but i will express my concerns and hope she points me in the right direction

Karlin
31st December 2007, 01:23 AM
Oh great, yes get her advice. She might have a reference for you or perhaps can tell you where she will be circulating as locum and then you can check with her again. She might suggest getting him on to something and seeing how he does.

TillyTommy
31st December 2007, 02:18 AM
Having read the information again I am certain its SM, when he has the attacks he gets a left leg twitch, the leg has a mind of its own, difficulty jumping up, thinking back this all started when Tommy was about 4. Just about a month after he turned 4. I am so worried now that he is possibly in pain and has been for some time and untreated. I just dont understand how it will progress, when do I say I will not let him suffer further? Is he in pain now and I dont know it. I feel absolutely dreadful now. On average how long do dogs live with this? can they have it their entire life? What have others done faced with this situation?

Karlin
31st December 2007, 02:32 AM
I have two dogs with SM and both are managed quite well on pain medications. Leo has moderate grade MRI-diagnosed SM and Lily likely has mild SM based on clinical evidence but not MRI (it is one of the reasons I never rehomed her as I had early suspicions). SM is a very variable and strange condition -- some dogs (and people) just get occasional pain sessions, some have chronic discomfort. Some do really well on medication, some do as well as other dogs that have the surgery... there are so many variables and no on knows how a dog will progress. Nicki and Cathy Moon also have SM dogs as do many others here. All our experiences are different, I think I can safely say!

Why not try and get him on the vet college trial? I'd ring them and talk to them. You'd get an MRI through them (though you will likely need to get one of the low cost diagnostic MRIs first yourself) and treatment and follow up.

Also depending on what you want to do and how his heart is (I am not sure if you are sure whether the heart is a mild murmur or a more serious problem) you could consider the surgery. But I';d try to see if the vet will give him a prescription for say a combo of frusemide and gabapentin especially if he has day to day difficulties. If he has just had pain session I'd get him on steroids or gabapentin. Steroids tend to be the best for those occasional pain sessions if they are not very frequent. But you will want an exprt's assessment and advice. This is just what those of us with symtpomatic dogs tend to hear or do.

Barbara Nixon
31st December 2007, 03:49 PM
Izzy , who had a grade six murmur for his last two years, was given Fortekor 5 when he began to cough. later he developed rapid breathing and Vetmedin helped this within a couple of days. He only had Frusicare (Frusimide) during his last months , as the vets found no fluid build up until then.

TillyTommy
31st December 2007, 04:35 PM
Funny the vet keeps asking me is Tommy coughing so they must think his mumour is advanced but he does not cough but does have rapid breathing! Not sure if its just at night when he is resting or if thats when I actually just notice it. When I see vet on Monday I will ask what grade she thinks he is......He seems happy enough, eating, playing, going for short walks but I just cant bear the thought he could be in pain. Husband and I do not agree or see eye to eye fully. He feels Tommy should not have any pain and does not want him to have one day or pain and although I feel the same I dont want to feel like I have taken time away from him either.:(

Karlin
31st December 2007, 05:57 PM
There are two things you should really do -- one is to see a cardiologist to get a proper heart murmur grade. Vets are very poor at grading. Most likely you should get an xray of his heart as well so you know whether there's enlargement. You need to determine where he is at to figure out the best course of treatment and whether the panting has anything at all to do with his heart. Heart care is well established but you need a vet willing to do something actively and you really need to get a grade from a cardiologist. If you check with the CKCS club for heart clinics there are regular low cost clinics at shows that anyone can attend. Ring the club or email them for more info. I would want to get a proper murmur grade asap and get vets who will then treat what needs treating.

Secondly I would get him properly checked for SM. He should be put on regular medication if he has this and to me it really sounds like this is the most obvious source of the kind of behaviour you have seen. He could be made a LOT more comfortable and the pain perhaps fully eliminated but you need proper professional advice. :thmbsup:

TillyTommy
31st December 2007, 06:16 PM
Thanks so much! I have written everything down so when I see this locum vet i can really get the wheels in motion. I simply want to know where he stands and how to keep him comfortable and with me for many more years:)

Barbara Nixon
31st December 2007, 06:32 PM
I don't think that knowing a heart grade is as important as whether symptoms show and how a dog's body copes. Izzy was symptom free until his murmur was very pronounced and I know of two others who were symptom free for over a year with a known 6. My vet says that a dog with an easily managed strong murmur is much better off than those with middling ones, who cough and pant.

Not all mvd dogs , who cough, do so all the time. In Izzy's case, even near the end, it was first thing (and only a couple of hacks), sometimes after mad exercise (he wasn't excercised but liked to run about and I felt that less time that was enjoyed was better than longer with upsetting restrictions ) or excitement and when there was a change in weather (He seemed to be affected by air pressure). Others cough and pant after even mild excercise and when feeding or drinking, so all are different.

I was told that Fortekor slows the heart, Vetmedin helps with breathing and Frusicare removes fluid. heart medications, now, unlike a few years ago, are very good and can give a good quality of life for quite some time; two years in our case.

I would ask for help with the heavy breathing, as at the very least, it must be tiring.

TillyTommy
31st December 2007, 07:09 PM
Thank you Barbara, Do you mind me asking how long did you have your Cavi? Tommy is 7.5 years old and I really hope he is with me many more years

Nicki
31st December 2007, 08:04 PM
karlin is right, all the Syringomyelia dogs progress in different ways - my Rupert is now 11 1/2, has infrequent episodes of pain [sometimes several years apart] and in between is his happy, normal self - other than a few minor problems like not being happy about his front legs being groomed.

My most severely affected dog, TedBear, is only 4 - he is on a cocktail of medications, which we are frequently having to change and rebalance, to keep him comfortable. He scratches, scoots [not anal glands], lies on cold floors, can no longer cope with being cuddled if he's held vertically etc - BUT when he is distracted, such as when you go for a walk, he can still be manic and chase around for a tennis ball. He still has a good quality of life, despite times where he obviously is not as comfortable.

I did seriously consider surgery but felt it was not the right option for him - or for us. With a dog over the age of 7 I would also be wary of surgical options - I think most vets would be of a similar opinion.

However there are lots of meds tha could help Tommy to be more comfortable - the panting could be pain rather than heart, also affected dogs don't seem to cope well with being warm - they prefer to be cool.

HOpe this helps and please keep us posted. Don't feel bad - your vets didn't seem to be up to speed on Syringo, and it's hard sometimes to get them to open their minds! My way of looking at things is that the vet is a partner in my dog's care - and should be prepared to listen to me with an open mind - and be prepared to learn about something if they didn't know - obviously they can't know about every condition affecting every species/breed of dog - this is something that is quite rare outside of toy breeds, and is only now just started to be taught about in vet school.

If a vet doesn't want to listen to you - then find another. The locum vet sounds good -hope that works out for you.

Barbara Nixon
31st December 2007, 08:05 PM
Izzy died in March and would have been 10 in June of this year. I had him from 10 weeks old.

Near the end his breathing was very rapid and he had a faraway look in his eyes. However, I don't think he suffered any pain, though the breathing was uncomfortable, especially in warm or close weather. Coughing never really appeared to bother him, as he'd have his cough , then jump up on the bed or run up and down satirs like a puppy. Just before the coughing began, he lost a lot of weight, though Monty who's 12 , now, also did. We are lucky that Monty's middling murmur doesn't trouble him at all.The day Izzy died he was more sleepy, but ate his evening meal and begged for some sweeties, only an hour before he went out for a wee and died in the garden. It was very peaceful.

This photo was his last, taken before three months before he went and though he's thin (he's the one on the right) he still has his zest for life--and treats.

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d54/BarbaraNixon/003bicciesplease.jpg

TillyTommy
31st December 2007, 10:16 PM
Thanks so much Barbara and so sorry to hear about Izzy, I guess in many respects I am just so worried will i do the right thing vs will i do the wrong thing! i will certainly look into his care and treatment more now and just be guided by gut instincts. He is at vet Tuesday 8th Janaury (sorry thought it was monday 7th)
thanks again for so much helpful and comforting information and I will for sure keep you posted, if not before i will certainly let you know what the vet said - thanks again, I love this site - fantastic:)

sallymum
31st December 2007, 11:38 PM
Dont want to scare people but if any of my dogs in future suffer with mvd i would think twice about putting them on vetmedin as when Sam was put on it he got worst very quickly he actually only lasted about 10 days. Have since heard, though it is brilliant for the vast majority of dogs there is a % who it in fact will make matters worst and my vet thinks this was the case with Sam.
Sam had just turned 8 when he died and i really think if he had of been left on the other meds, though i know he would not be around for ever, i really believe he would be here this evening.
I could actually see him getting worst day by day on this med. Really dont wont to put people of the med but if i had of known about this i may, well at least i would have known that this could happen. But for most dogs it is the new wonder drug.

Barbara Nixon
1st January 2008, 01:28 PM
i'm so sorry that Vetmedin didn't suit Sam, but he is the only case I've heard of , where it didn't help. When Izzy started heavy breathing and panting, the vet decided to try him out and said the effects should show within a few days, but to return if he seemed worse. In fact, his breathing was only noticably faster if he lay by one of the others, within three days and when he had a relapse, a doubled dose sorted him quickly. This was especially good, as his problems cropped up during warm close weather.

I would not hesitate using it for another dog, as the benefits far outweigh the chance of an adverse reaction ; rather like innoculation in dogs and humans.

TillyTommy
1st January 2008, 02:33 PM
Really sorry to hear about your sad experience Sallyann - I think what concerns me most and maybe that should not be the case is these attackes he gets. His get a funny walking gait, his back leg in particular left goes limp, he almost screams in pain - it is a really loud high pitched yelping, im sure last time he has problems with bowels and urine control, he seems to lay on the kitchen floor ususally, not sure why that is the case. Its been 6 months since the last one but each gets worse and the last one lasted 4 weeks although he was not in severe pain the entire 4 weeks, It peaked in the last week of the 4. I am trying to get to the bottom of it so that if another attack happens it is managed better because during that entire time they could never say what it was! He is approaching 8 so i know surgery is out of the question. Its mind boggling to me:confused:

TillyTommy
1st January 2008, 02:40 PM
p.s. and sadly I got Tommy before I knew anything of the bread, I was very ignorant to purchasing a puppy, He was the brother to my Tilly but from a different litter and i got Tilly at 8 months so i knew NOTHING and have learned the hard way. I have since found out that Tommy who was one of 5 in his litter is only 2 of 5 still alive. They ALL suffered problems that were never "sorted" by vets. So as Karlin and many others have said PLEASE be careful in selecting a puppy, i can see now I have/had added to a growing problem with the breed. It was not intentional but a mistake made out of ignorance - unexcusable all the same:(

Barbara Nixon
1st January 2008, 06:57 PM
Don't beat yourself up about this. Most of us were ignorant at some stage. Hundreds of owners of breeds are ignorant about their problems, because , many many think that a pedigree or kc registration means good breeding. you know, I think more people are ignorance of their breeds problems, than those who are informed. before the internet, there were few ways of finding out, until you , unfortunately got experience.

TillyTommy
8th January 2008, 12:27 PM
Hello - Just to let you know Tommy was with the vet this morning. She specializes in heart problems and felt Tommy's murmour would be graded a 4. She said previous xrays showed Tommys heart was "rounded" and we moved on to others things before I could as was "rounded" a normal heart or an abnormality. She has put Tommy on Frusemide and Vasotop. She did explain both meds in detail but I did not retain that information!! She is seeing him again in 2 weeks to discuss meds and my concerns about SM. Just on another note Tommy has always been a rascal when out on the lead - he barks at every animal that he sees and is terrible in the vet as you can imagine! But today he went a bit further and actually went to nip a retriver. He was on the lead so I was able to pull him back but he did catch her slightly but if I hadnt pulled him back god knows!! I was HORRIFIED - he has NEVER expressed an aggressive behaviour before and I am dreading the next vet visit! Any suggestions about all of the above? Thanks so much:)

Karlin
8th January 2008, 01:03 PM
A 4 is pretty far advanced I am afraid (5 in the worst on a 1-5 scale). A rounded heart means it is enlarged so he is going towards congestive heart failure. I would definitely get him on proper meds which should help this a lot. With the right treatment, kept in lean weight, an MVD dog can continue on for quite a while, even a few years.

There's a lot of detailed info here: http://board.cavaliertalk.com/showthread.php?t=9214

If he is snapping while on lead in the vets it is better to keep him very close to you or bring him in a crate. He may be snapping because he is uncomfortable or in pain. You do NOT want to risk a bite though -- another owner can ask that a dog be confiscated and euthenised for biting and so it is better to be very safe if you know he has become a bit reactive. Some dogs are very anxious in small spaces on leads and this can make them reactive when they normally aren't. Also this can be made worse simply by being at the vets, which is a place that makes many dogs extra worried or fearful.

PS I would really change from your regular vets if they never explained any of these key points to you and never had put him on medications even with an enlarged heart! They work for you after all and you need to understand your dog's health status, not have it be some secret only they know about.

Barbara Nixon
8th January 2008, 01:13 PM
Vets here use a scale of 1 to 6 for murmurs.

Odd you should mention unusual snapping, but , in his last two years, izzy got untrustworthy. He never really liked Joly, but tolerated him and growled if he overstepped the mark. However, in his last two years, he did, on several occasions attack and really hold onto Joly, should he yelp for any reason . He also bit, laid back Monty twice, when he yelped. The vet could find no pyysical reason for this behaviour, but did say that some dogs do , unaccountably change like this, being intolerant of other dogs' yelping.Izzy did scratch his ears a lot and the old vet used to give meds anyway, but the new one said there was nothing wrong with his ears and that he could have very mild sm, which was of little consequence , compared to his severe heart condition (ie off the scale).

TillyTommy
8th January 2008, 01:14 PM
Thanks Karlin - Apparently the rounded heart was picked up last July when he had this yelping, pain episode in July. In xray was taken because of that but they xray the heart at the same time and NOTHING was mentioned to me! I am horrified and I am changing vets and I am also asking for an explanation from the vet practice I have been using.
Tommy has always whined and barked at the vet but he has never nipped. I will from now on crate him because i cant take the chance. He nipped the retriever on her lip. The retriever owner was ok about it but that really is beside the point. I really cant get my head around WHY they did not deem it important to tell me he had an enlarged heart, serious mumour, and no meds! It is beyond belief!:(

TillyTommy
8th January 2008, 01:25 PM
Barbara - thats interesting because Tommy certainly has not been so tolerant the past 18 months. My little boy, 4 now, is often growled off. Tommy has never gone for him but he will growl at things he used to love or at least accept!! All I can do now is keep him comfortable, really for the most part he seems a happy chap ,

Karlin
8th January 2008, 01:30 PM
Well, vets are pretty poor generally at getting grades right. And the condition can advance quickly meaning the grade may have been much lower at the time of the x-ray. But I don't understand why the vet wouldn't have explained what was on the xray to you. Also many simply treat MVD like some minor thing that 'can't be helped'. I hear *all the time* of Irish vets who just do nothing for dogs that are in obvious heart failure -- to the point where even I could diagnose them! Yet not a single medication was given. I know two cases where dogs were sent home in distress finally being given a new prescription to start that DAY for heart meds and died the same day at home, leaving a very distraught owner whose experience would have been much better had the dog been allowed to quietly pass away at the surgery and of course, if the vet had started treatment to at least ease the dog's discomfort and hopefully, extend life and quality of life many months earlier.

I am really not sure why some take this approach, as if there has been no advancement since the 1950s in the understanding of this by now very well studied condition. Many owners not wish to go the way of lots of blood tests and lots of monitoring but at the very least their vet should be tracking this condition with them and keeping them well informed of what happens with MVD and how it progresses and what can be done, when. The link above and that write-up by PatB really show how much IS understood about MVD and the many approaches that can be taken.

Thanks Barbara for the grading clarification. I know vets can also use a 1-5 or a 1-6 (or is it 1-4?) scale for patellas too! Making it more confusing...

TillyTommy
20th January 2008, 05:24 PM
Just to let all the followed this thread that Tommy has been on heart tablets for nearly two weeks now. He is back to vet on tuesday. Tommy does not seem much different but maybe tablets take time to take effect? I timed his breathing last night and it was just over 70 beats in just one minute! Not sure what it should be but my Pebbles and Tilly both timed between 17-20 beats per minute SO Tommy is breathing over 3 times faster. The last few days I have noticed panting in addition to the fast breathing, Thankfully he is still happy, eating well. I sit and look at him on the sofa and you can see the heart beating by just looking at his stomach. after about 30 beats it acutally seems to stop for a second or two then starts up fast again, I seem to live in fear with him at the moment:(

Barbara Nixon
20th January 2008, 05:57 PM
Vetmedin , in Izzy's case, wqs quite quick acting (about 3 days) but Fortekor took longer.

I feel for you about living on a knife edge, because I went through that with Izzy , who died almost a year ago.

TillyTommy
20th January 2008, 06:04 PM
So sorry about that Barbara, Did you sit and wonder - watch and wait? I hope I will be waiting some time:)

Barbara Nixon
21st January 2008, 12:52 PM
Oh yes. I twice went to the vet thinking this was it (he was having trouble breathing) and each time, though, they had something extra to try.

OK head out of sand. it looks like we're off again. Monty has been coughing, just one hack, most mornings, since before Christams and I know , in my innermost, that it is not because he is licking his rude parts or paws clean (Though making himself cough this way has not been uncommon and Teddy did the same when he was madly licking , due to his allergy).

Monty was 12 in November and has had a mumur for years (middling back in the summer), but no symptoms until now, so I'm going to book him in to see the head of our vet practice.

TillyTommy
21st January 2008, 01:35 PM
Im so sorry to hear that Barbara, my fingers crossed for you. Do let us know how you get on.
Thinking of you x

Arne
21st January 2008, 02:24 PM
fingers crossed for Tommy and Monty too.

Nicki
21st January 2008, 09:22 PM
oh Barbara so sorry to hear this - keep us posted on how Monty is doing once you've been to the vets...

Theresa
23rd January 2008, 12:43 AM
Bless you Barbara. We are thinking of you and Monty and sending you happy thoughts!!! Please let us know how you get on. :luv:

TillyTommy
24th January 2008, 02:09 PM
Tommy update - He saw vet today, they stopped heart meds for two weeks because it wasnt making any difference and they want to see how he goes in the mean time (2 weeks) Apparently he is having a lot of pain in the back end. She did anal examination and is prostrate is enlarged, now coming back to an older problem of 18 months ago! We have been going in circles so he is now being referred to specialist to look at heart and prostrate. Waiting for a phone call from the vet this afternoon. Appt should be next week. In mean I have made sure my son stays away from him and does not pester him. He is still eating well and wagging his tail but not himself! I really hope I will soon have some answers even if costly! He is sleeping at the moment which he does lots of lately.

TillyTommy
1st February 2008, 03:38 PM
Just to let everyone know that followed this thread that my Tommy took a terrible turn last night and is very poorly. We were due to see vet anyway this morning. Sadly, I never got to the bottom of what all his problems were. My vet who I have wonderful relationship with is away until 13 February. If Tommy has not passed naturally then he will be put to rest at home with his family on the 13th February. I am finding it too hard to even write about it and all the details other then to say thanks for so much help and advice. Is it normal to feel so much grief?? I am devastated right now

Barbara Nixon
1st February 2008, 03:47 PM
I'm so that it has come to this for Tommy and I hope that, like Izzy, he does go by his own choice.

I don't know whether it's just me, but after all my dogs have passed ( 2 pts and 2 died ) I've felt better. They are gone, yes, but there is no more suffering and no more worry about what is to come.

TillyTommy
1st February 2008, 03:50 PM
Thanks Barbara - Im not so sure he will make it until the 13th, like you I hope he doesnt because I am not sure how I will cope with it otherwise. I am cooking him fresh chicken and rice tonight - he loves that

Karlin
1st February 2008, 04:10 PM
Did you ever put him on gabapentin? I would really recommend getting him on medications for SM immediately given the things you are seeing with him if the turn seems pain related -- I would doubt the pain sessions are due to anything else and these would be hugely relieved almost certainly if you get him on gabapentin to see if that helps. If you feel it is general pain and/or his heart and is all too hard for him, then certainly go with your heart on this difficult decision. It is very tough to be making such decisions. :flwr:

Barbara Nixon
1st February 2008, 08:22 PM
My dread with Izzy was seeing him put to sleep, but I had partly eased my mind, by deciding to request the same as I did for Benji. I asked the vet to put him under heavy sedation, while I was there and then left, when he was unaware.

TillyTommy
1st February 2008, 08:42 PM
Karlin - I will phone vets first thing in the morning and mention that medication. I just want him comfortable,, you just know your animals and I know he has suffered too long. The debate continues as to is it SM or not. I know in my heart it is but it is too late for him to see specialist. He was due to see vet in Cambridge. I wouldnt wish what I have seen with him on anyone or any dog.
Again, thanks everyone for so much help and advice, I am much more informed and knew more then I ever dreamt possible now.
PLEASE others no back street breeders - if you saw my Tommy you would understand.
Thanks again:)

Elaine 2
2nd February 2008, 01:25 AM
I wonder why they stopped his heart meds after only 2 weeks, maybe that's what's made him have a bad turn

Caraline
4th February 2008, 05:06 AM
This is so terribly sad. I don't know enough about the medical issues to make any wise comments. I would like to say this though....

If you decide to llet him go, getting the vet to come & do this at home is a wonderful & gentle way to do it. Many people are afraid to be there when it is done, but I can only say that as sad as it is, it is also comforting. I don't know what the procedure is in other countries, but here in Australia the agent for euthanaising a dog is simply an overdose of anaesthetic. So it really is "being put to sleep". The dog goes into a very deep sleep and he just forgets to breathe & his heart forgets to beat. Truly, I wish that humans with painful & terminal conditions could be allowed to go in such a humane manner.

It would be wonderful if something comes up before the allocated date that changes what is ahead, but if not, I hope the above will provide a little comfort & reassurance.

TillyTommy
4th February 2008, 06:10 PM
Caraline - thank you so much

merlinsmum
4th February 2008, 07:47 PM
.

It would be wonderful if something comes up before the allocated date that changes what is ahead.


Me too:paw:

Nicki
4th February 2008, 09:17 PM
Thinking of you - I really hope that things aren't as bad as they currently seem.

Did you phone the vets/ I too think it would be worth trying some pain meds - I have known mine to pant when they are in pain.

It seems a bit sudden to stop all the heart meds just like that - that would surely cause withdrawal symptoms


Oh and my vet came to my house when it was time to give Peaches her wings - she was lying on my lap with my husband feeding her prawns, it was very peaceful, the vet just injected her leg and she hardly noticed. She just stopped breathing - no panic, nothing. I felt very raw afterwards but maybe we felt more cheated as she was only 7 - I think perhaps if they have led a long and healthy life one might view it differently.

TillyTommy
4th February 2008, 10:19 PM
He is on pain relief. I have been so confused by it all. And just really sad. He is clearly a very unwell boy, I could never give a full picture as its been a 3.5 year time scale.
They will come to the house but even that I cant bear although I know I have to.
My 10 year old is absolutely distraught as we all are. Even writing about it is awful but thanks for all the kind wishes

TillyTommy
6th February 2008, 12:11 PM
Hello - Just to say we have beeing working full out with Tommy. Made many calls and Tommy has been seen independently and is confirmed SM. Everything remains the same and we have to part with him next wednesday. I would love to post a pic of my dear man but cant on my computer. I have several pic on my phone. Could I possibly send a pic to someones mobile who then in turn can post his pic for me? Thanks so much