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CVFlagg
17th February 2008, 09:08 PM
I am needing a bit of advice/reassurance. Yesterday I took my four year old to the vet for his annual vaccines (3-year rabies and lepto <I would have prefered to not do this, but the vet has seen a few cases in my area>) we came home and everything was fine, eating, drinking, playing, etc. But this morning he woke up and threw up twice, once the size of a golf ball just yellow mucus and the second time (they were within minutes of each other) about tennis ball size yellow mucus but it did have small frank blood streaks.

He is acting normal, eating and drinking and running around chasing squirrels, could the blood be a result of the vaccines given yesterday?

WoodHaven
17th February 2008, 09:21 PM
I NEVER give lepto with anything else. It seems to be one of the most highly reactive vaccinations for cavaliers.. Rabies I also give alone.

Justine
17th February 2008, 09:26 PM
This happened to Alfs.He had to have a injection and antibiotics.The lump under the skin on his neck was huge.I think you have to be careful as it can become septic.

Karlin
18th February 2008, 03:57 PM
I'd call your vet -- vomiting with blood may have nothing to do with a vaccine reaction. If you talk to them you can find out what might be a reaction and what might not be.

I agree with Sandy -- I'd not want to give either lepto or rabies at the same time in future.

Just some perspective on vaccines generally -- it is fairly normal to have some reaction to some vaccines for people too, so it doesn't bother me too much if dogs have mild reactions either. People as well as dogs all react differently. I know people who get quite queasy from tetanus shots but I don't -- but typhoid or yellow fever -- can;t remember which -- made me really dizzy and tired for 24 hours and my arm was pretty sore. I had to have a whole range of injections for a trip to Africa a couple of years ago. If the option is getting yellow fever or a day of discomfort as my immune system is put under pressure to develop resistence I'll take the latter.

CVFlagg
18th February 2008, 07:21 PM
Thanks for all of the feedback! The vet actually called today with the results from his junior wellness bloodwork (execellent) and I mentioned the vomiting, he said to keep a close eye on him and if he vomits again or if he starts having diahrrea to bring him in. I am hoping we are out of the woods since he has not gotten sick since the one time.

Thanks for the advice on the vaccine schedule, I will definitely be making sure they only get one vaccine at a time.

CavyMom
19th February 2008, 03:40 PM
Sounds like you're on the right track! I also never give Lepto to any of my dogs - Also with an adult dog, I no longer follow a 1 year schedule, I do a series of 3 shots as a puppy, and a booster at a year. I then to titer testing at 2 years, and yearly there after - As long as the titer testing looks good, I don't do any further vaccination. After loosing a dog to a vaccine reaction, I learned the hard way of the harm vaccines can cause when given to often. For owners that don't have access to titer testing or just don't wish to do it, it's becoming more and more common to do ALL vaccines on a 3 year schedule instead of a yearly schedule.

Daisy's Mom
19th February 2008, 06:01 PM
It's so frustrating because Tennessee still requires rabies every year. Our first vet said he thought the law would be changed by the time Daisy's 2nd year rolled around, but it hasn't. He said that all the studies say that rabies vac is good for 3 years, but Tennessee hasn't recognized that.

My breeder told me never to give Lepto either, so I haven't. I do worry a little, though, whenever we are walking near standing water where Daisy might be tempted to drink. The vet says Lepto is on the rise in our area.

Kris Christine
22nd February 2008, 10:49 AM
[PERMISSION GRANTED TO CROSS-POST THIS MESSAGE.

Regarding the Lepto vaccine, on Page 2 of the American Animal Hospital Association's 2003 Canine Vaccine Guidelines and Recommendations, it states that "Optional or 'noncore' vaccines are those that the committee believe should be considered only in special circumstances because their use is more dependent on the exposure risk of the individual animal. Issues of geographic distribution and lifestyle should be considered before administering these vaccines. In addition, the diseases involved are generally self-limiting or respond readily to treatment. The committee believes this group of vaccines comprises distemper-meases virus (D-MV), canine parainfluenza virus (CPIV), Leptospira spp., Bordetella bronchispetica, and Borrelia burdorferi."

Furthermore, on Page 7, Tables 1 of the AAHA Guidelines referenced above, it states under Revaccination (Booster Recommendations) that the Leptospira interrogans vaccine "....this product carries high-risk for adverse vaccine events." Under Overall Comments and Recommendations they elaborate: "Anecdotal reports from veterinarians and breeders suggest that the incidence of postvaccination reactions (acute anaphylaxis) in puppies (<12 wks of age) and small-breed dogs is high. Reactions are most severe in young (<9 wks of age) puppies. Routine use of the vaccine should be delayed until dogs are >9 wks of age."

On Page 8 of the 2006 American Animal Hospital Association's Canine Vaccine Guidelines, it states that "Veterinarians are advised of anecdotal reports of ACUTE ANAPHYLAXIS in TOY BREEDS following administration of leptospirosis vaccines. Routine vaccination of toy breeds should only be considered in dogs known to have a high exposure risk."

Leptospira isa “killed” vaccine and is associated with clinically significant adverse reactions. According to the 2003 AAHA Guidelines (Page 16), "...killed vaccines are much more likely to cause hypersensitivity reactions (e.g., immune-mediated disease)."Further, the AAHA task force reports on Page 18 that, "Bacterial vaccines, especially killed whole organism products …..are much more likely to cause adverse reactions than subunit or live bacterial vaccines or MLV vaccines, especially if given topically. Several killed bacterial products are used as immunomodulators/adjuvants. Thus, their presence in a combination vaccine product may enhance or suppress the immune response or may cause an undesired response (e.g., IgE hypersensitivity or a class of antibody that is not protective)."

A fuller discussion of the Lepto vaccine can be found on Page 14, in which it is reported that, "Immunity is an ill-defined term for Leptospira ssp. products. If immunity is defined as protection from infection or prevention of bacterial-shedding, then there is little or no enduring immunity."

Dr. Alice Wolf, Professor of Small Animal Internal Medicine at Texas A&M College of Veterinary Medicine, stated in an address (Vaccines of the Present and Future http://www.vin.com/VINDBPub/SearchPB/Proceedings/PR05000/PR00141.htm (http://www.vin.com/VINDBPub/SearchPB/Proceedings/PR05000/PR00141.htm)) at the 2001 World Small Animal Veterinary Association World Congress that: "The most reactive vaccines for dogs include leptospirosis bacterin and Borrelia [Lyme]vaccine."

Personally, I found the most stunning quote in this entire document to be on Page 18, in which the task force declares: "However, the ethical issue that our profession struggles with today is whether economics justifies giving an animal a drug (vaccines are biologic drugs) that is not necessarily required. As a minimum, we should allow pet owners to make this choice rather than make it for them."

Anyone who wishes to have a copy of the American Animal Hospital Association's 2003 Canine Vaccine Guidelines referenced above, please contact me at ledgespring@lincoln.midcoast.com (ledgespring@lincoln.midcoast.com). I highly encourage people to share this report with all of the dog owners they know!

Duration of Immunity to Canine Vaccines: What We Know and Don't Know, Dr. Ronald Schultz http://www.cedarbayvet.com/duration_of_immunity.htm (http://www.cedarbayvet.com/duration_of_immunity.htm)

The 2003 American Animal Hospital Association's Canine Vaccine Guidelines are accessible online at http://www.leerburg.com/special_report.htm (http://www.leerburg.com/special_report.htm)

The 2006 American Animal Hospital Association's Canine Vaccine Guidelines are downloadable in PDF format at http://www.aahanet.org/PublicDocumen...s06Revised.pdf (http://www.aahanet.org/PublicDocumen...s06Revised.pdf)

Veterinarian, Dr. Robert Rogers,has an excellent presentation on veterinary vaccines at http://www.newvaccinationprotocols.com/ (http://www.newvaccinationprotocols.com/)