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Brian M
24th February 2008, 08:49 PM
HI
My name is Brian i am married to Dawn and we have a 12 yr old boy Luke and in turn we are owned by Poppy 17 months Daisy 13 months and Rosie 7 months and i have pondered about the show scene but i have no idea what is required or needed so lots of advice pls.I presume the first requisit would be a dog but how do i determine if they are good enough or just a wsate of time.The Blenheim of 13 months her proper name is Lorankas Dawns Delight and her grandad was Loranka Celebration but how do i judge her credentials i think shes well proportioned walks as though she knows she special feisty and a bloody big trouble maker,ie if its quite Daisy is shreddig the bath sponge or sitting down chewing my £200 acer bloodgod i have just planted but to further exacibate Little Rosie is becoming the scorcers apprentice Rosie erself good be show standard i dont no ,rosie came from Joyce Wilson a breeder and a judge on the cicuit while Daisy came of course Lorranie Hughes while our Precious little sirl Poopy will never be a showgirl but shes mu girl

Karlin
24th February 2008, 09:31 PM
You need to start attending local shows to get a sense of whether this is something you are really interested in and then take some classes in handling and get involved with some local fun shows, which will give you a sense of where to go next and what serious competition at local club shows might be like.

Most breeders don't sell show quality dogs to pet homes however -- you can expect to pay well upwards of £1000 for a potential show dog (some of our UK show breeders can probably give you a better idea, I am just guessing at least that range). But a good way to start to learn about showing is to take any cavalier to a fun show and start to learn basic handling that way. Many people simply enjoy the fun shows -- serious showing is extremely political and competitive and may not at times be very pleasant -- to be honest. It isn't something to do thinking it will be kind of a fun side hobby. :lol: It is understandably, very serious business for many people.

Most local clubs can tell you about how to find a show handling class.

I am sure the show folks here in the UK can give more specific suggestions.

Cathryn
25th February 2008, 09:58 AM
Juicy!!:razz:

OK, here is what I suggest you do, first of all get hold of a copy of the breed standard, (you will find this at www.thecavalierclub.co.uk) and read it again and again until you have it imprinted in your mind, you will begin to picture what is YOUR idea of the perfect Cavalier! Next thing I will tell you to do is to visit the upcoming Crufts dog show at the NEC in Birmingham and visit the "Discover Dogs" section, all Kennel Club recognised breeds are on display in this section over the entirity of the show, find the Cavaliers and talk to the people who are with them, these are dogs owned by various breed club members who all show and will be able to tell you about the finer points of the breed! Time your visit with toy Group Day and you will then be able to see the show dogs in the ring too. You will quickly see that different breeders/exhibitors have different idea's as to what exactly the perfect Cavalier looks like!
This is the trick of showing really, to find/breed a dog that fits your idea of perfection and then to find a judge who has the same idea!! NOT EASY!! I have over the years managed to quallify several dogs for Crufts both on the Annual Qualification and also on the Lifetime Qualification, (The lad in my Avatar is life qualified!) but will not be showing this year sadly.
You mention illustrious grandparents, and Yes you have every right to, the dog you named is an incredible representative of the breed, I remember him well! HOWEVER!! You can have a dog who has a wonderful all champion pedigree that has so many faults it would get nowhere! I have used a Crufts Best of Breed Winner at stud and the pups although initially very nice just did not come up to scratch!
Talk to breeders at Crufts is my advice (AFTER they've been in their class!) then go home and go over your own dogs again applying the breed standard to them and see how you rate them then! Commonest faults right now are upright shoulders, poor movement, incorrect bites and small eye's, the last one being the hardest of all to correct!!

I could write much more on this, but think that is enough to be going on with for now, feel free to ask any more you need to know, by all means PM me etc, will be happy to help IF I can! Have been showing now on and off for almost 15 years and will speak from my own experience, but we are all of us never done learning!!

Karlin, the price you have quoted sounds about right but that would be from a well known kennel, I feel I should also say that it is against the code of ethics to sell a puppy as being a "Show Quality" puppy before it is 6 Months old, has been shown by the breeder and done some winning, any puppy sold with a view to it being show should only be sold as a "Show Potential" puppy,, and to be honest I would only be asking about £100 more than a pet puppy personnally as you have NO guarantee that the pup will fulfill it's potential! I have seen/owned many an ugly duckling who turned into a swan and vice versa!! :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Hope this is of help to you???

shippers
25th February 2008, 11:27 AM
This is a very interesting thread. I'm like Brian as I always wondered how you know a dog has show potential. I'm visiting crufts this year and I'm hoping to chat to some breeders/exhibitors regarding showing. I'm really looking forward to watching the Cavaliers in the ring. I know that my girl Sally, although fantastic in my eyes, would never be a show dog. She is well outside the breed standard for size and definitely not the dainty type although certainly not fat. I really hope to get into showing in the future even just at fun shows. How did you get into showing/breeding your dogs Cathryn? You seem such a credit to the breed.

Barbara Nixon
25th February 2008, 12:06 PM
If you want to meet cavalier show people nearer home, the UK Toy show is at Stafford on March 30th. Lorraine Hughes will probably be there, so you could show her some photos, for a tentative opinion (You can't take your dog along, unless it is registered at the show). It's a good show to visit, as it has toy dog obedince, too, at which cavaliers are well represented.

As Cathryn says, a brilliant pedigree is no guarantee that a dog is show quality. Teddy, shown here is by CH Homerbrent Expression, from a Toraylac bitch. His litter brother is a champion, but he is not good enough.

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d54/BarbaraNixon/teddyhead014.jpg

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d54/BarbaraNixon/teddydown2012.jpg

Brian M
25th February 2008, 01:34 PM
Hi
Thanks for your excellent advice and guidance Cathryn, and Barbara Teddy looks and is a beautiful boy ,all your welcome comments do leave an enormous amount for thought and Karlin Daisy was not too far removed from the figure you mentioned ,the amount of time and dedication that seems to be needed seems awfully daunting its as though one is embarking upon a life times work, which i imagine it is. I bought last year two books i think they were called Cavalier Champions and they are pictorial records of Champions past and present and do give an excellent guide to the standard needed but it seems that unless you are prepared to basically go into a full time breeding programme you are then only relying on purchasing pups who have possible show potential and i would presume therefore your success if any would be very limited, so i think i will attend the odd show and watch from afar and wish all our breeders who must really totally dedicate themselves the best of luck in there individual endeavors and i shall just keep and enjoy Daisy and her siblings for what they are my pet girls ,but maybe at a show seek out one of you dedicated people and ask for some of your advice and comments. Thanks to all.

sins
28th February 2008, 01:17 PM
I guess I'm in the same situation as Brian. I have a bitch with a good pedigree but I have no idea how to assess faults.She seems to match the breed standard in many ways but doesn't seem to have the sweet soft expression that the showdogs have...or the long long ears.
May I ask Barbara why you decided that Teddy wasn't show standard?
Sins

Daisy's Mom
28th February 2008, 01:54 PM
Barbara, Can you tell us a little more about why Teddy isn't good enough to show? One reason I'm asking is that, literally, he could be Daisy's twin, except his blaze is better than Daisy's (more symmetrical). But their facial expressions and head structure are very, very similar, especially in that shot showing his profile. Having said that, though, I know Daisy's also too big to show, in addition to any other faults she has.

I'm always interested in seeing "faults" on a real dog rather than in theory.

I went to an "old club" Cavalier specialty show right before Christmas, and I was amazed at how many of the dogs shown had the Blenheim spot! Of course, I knew it was desirable, but in that prestigious club, it seems like they seldom bother to even try showing a dog without one! This was just casual observatino, of course, I didn't try to actually count. But the prevalence of the lozenge on so many of the dogs kind of amazed me!

Theresa
12th March 2008, 07:29 PM
Teddy is not good enough, Barbara??? Are they blind!! He is beautiful!

Cathryn
12th March 2008, 08:23 PM
Hmmmm, many questions and many answers here!!

The "Lozenge" is not the be all and end in all honesty, OK if you get down to 2 dogs you like as much as each other and one has the lozenge and the other doesn't, then that should be the deciding factor, BUT,there have been many top winning dogs(here in the UK at least) who do not have the spot, my very own Logan (dog in my avatar) does NOT have the spot/lozenge has qualified for Crufts for life!! The overall quality of the dog is the important thing, personnally I look for health and temperament firstly, they go hand in hand, no one is more important than the other, then construction and movement, a badly constructed dog will NOT move correctly, finally the icing on the cake, MARKINGS!!! Personnally I like my boys more on the heavily marked side (shows their construction off better!) and the girls more evenly marked, each to their own!!

I know Barbara's lad's litter brother very well indeed but I think I will let Barbara tell her own story on this!!

Barbara Nixon
12th March 2008, 08:35 PM
Teddy has one testicle only partly descended ie it is out of the abdominal cavity, but just short of the scrotum. He is also at the top end of size and does not have double pigment in his eyes. he went through a bad time temperamentwise, so may be unrpredictable, as he can nip in excitement (even me ). I think he does move very nicely though and he has nicely distributed coulour.

You see pretty or handsome does not mean a dog is a suitable show dog.

Daisy's Mom
12th March 2008, 09:40 PM
You want to know a secret? Don't tell anyone -- I'm not a big fan of the lozenge! icon_whistling I know I'm supposed to like them, but I just kind of don't! I think that's why I noticed so many of them at that Cavalier show.

OK, I know I'm in the tiny minority and I guess I'm kind of weird in that way. Lord knows I'm far from a conformation judge, but if I were picking out a dog for myself, based only on appearance differences, I would pick the one without!

Don't get me wrong, I think all Cavaliers are beautiful, so I'm not criticizing anyone's baby, but my personal preference is not to have the lozenge, looks-wise. icon_blshing

It's funny how personal aesthetics enter in. I just met Charlie, a Blenheim who just moved into our neighborhood. He is covered with freckles, even all over his legs. His owner said she picked him out of the litter because of the freckles! She said he was the only one with freckles. It just goes to show you there's a lid for every pot, right? Daisy has 6 perfectly spaced freckles around her nose, and I'm not too fond of them. My kids, however, think they are what make her so cute.

Lisa_T
12th March 2008, 11:29 PM
What do you mean by 'double pigment', Barbara? I think I know what you mean, but not certain.

The other thing: standard says that Cavaliers should not have a stop, but I've seen photos of show winners with a clear stop, which seems to go with an indentation between the eyes. Amber has this. Holly, on the other hand, typifies the 'no-stop' rule very nicely. Then again, I suppose judging is about seeing a dog as a sum of his/her parts, rather than fixating on one area.

I know neither of my girls would be show quality. Holly has a beautiful head, but she's below standard for size, and her movement isn't the best. She's also too timid. Amber has the personality and gorgeous movement, but she does (I think) still have a slight underbite. I also think that perhaps she may be too long, but maybe not. Overall I think Amber has better construction, which I supposes bears out Cathryn's comments that good construction = good movement. And Amber is mismarked in any case.

Barbara Nixon
13th March 2008, 10:07 AM
This photo of Izzy shows his double pigment. ie the sclera or 'white' was brown.

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d54/BarbaraNixon/001izzyeye.jpg

pippa
13th March 2008, 11:26 AM
If you want to meet cavalier show people nearer home, the UK Toy show is at Stafford on March 30th. Lorraine Hughes will probably be there, so you could show her some photos, for a tentative opinion (You can't take your dog along, unless it is registered at the show). It's a good show to visit, as it has toy dog obedince, too, at which cavaliers are well represented.

As Cathryn says, a brilliant pedigree is no guarantee that a dog is show quality. Teddy, shown here is by CH Homerbrent Expression, from a Toraylac bitch. His litter brother is a champion, but he is not good enough.

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d54/BarbaraNixon/teddyhead014.jpg

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d54/BarbaraNixon/teddydown2012.jpg

Gus also comes from those lines. There is a great British champion in his lnes not to far back.My daughter tried showing him as a young 2 yr old dog but he HATED it and was no show dog.When all the other dogs were in their crates he was crying to be on her knee.We love him as he is though.Pippin has a lovely face, but, had an undecended testicle ,so she couldn't show him. I felt the show world was to competitive for my daughter and was kind of glad it didn't work out. I got the dogs for pets but someone suggested we show Gus and as I wasn't interested my daughter said she would. He won his first show but made a complete SHOW of himself in the 2nd and that was that!