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mardan
2nd March 2008, 11:40 AM
has anyone bought their puppy online and had good luck?

gandp
2nd March 2008, 12:31 PM
I think this practice is a generally discouraged at all cost. I haven't bought a puppy yet, and may be wrong, but have spoken to several breeders and they all heavily discourage buying puppys on-line because of the numerous pitfalls.

If you don't visit the house where the puppy is born and raised you could potentially be supporting a puppy mill or a back yard breeder, something to be avoided at all costs. Unfortunately there are numerous people out there who want to take advantage of your good intentions and are looking to make money off of the misery of animals that have not been properly cared for.

Also, please note that with ALL breeds there are reports of websites selling puppy's using pictures stolen from other sites (generally breeders), imagine ordering what you think it is a healthy cute puppy and getting something completely different. Buy getting a puppy from an actual breeder you can avoid all of this.

Karlin, the sight administrator has some really good posts about how to choose a breeder, as does the the Cavalier King Charles Club of America. here is the link: http://www.ckcsc.org/ . Also, check out this link they have a lot of info about buying a puppy as well: http://www.premiercavalierinfosite.com/

I hope this helps! :)

-P

Bruce H
2nd March 2008, 01:30 PM
In addition to what grandp posted, take a look at the Cavalier Information Library. There is a lot of good information about buying a puppy.

To answer your question, I don't know of a single reputable breeder who would sell puppy online. But I do know that's how the puppy mills sell their puppies. Please don't support the puppy mills by buying online puppies or from a pet store. An absolute sure sign of a puppy mill or backyard breeder is a puppy that is registered by something other than CKCSC or AKC (assuming it was registered in the US). No reputable breeder would EVER register a dog with one of the bogus pet registries.

If you go to the Cavalier Club web site www.ckcsc.org (http://www.ckcsc.org) you can find a list of member breeders who conform to a Code of Ethics. That's your starting point. From there contact 2 or three breeders and ask lots of questions and be prepared to answer lots of their questions; please don't take offense if some of their questions sound a little personal, they only want the best for their puppy. If they don't have any puppies coming up, many times they will know who does and give you some recommendations

The next step is to go out and look at the puppies that are available. If there are no puppies available immediately, even better! Weird statement, but that allows you to focus on asking questions and observing. BTW, you DO know we breeders have a drug that we use on people that makes them loose control and buy puppies? It's called Puppy Breath :D; naw, just kidding, but we have been accused of it! While you're at the breeders home, ask to see the health clearances on the parents and even the grandparents, if they have them. Ask to see where the puppies and the adults stay. Interact with not just the puppies, but the adults too. All the while, look all around you and observe.

A whole book could be written on how to buy a puppy. All I can say is read everything you can find and don't be afraid to ask lots of questions. Oh, and I have to add this: one of the quickest ways to turn off a good breeder is to have your first or second question be "How much are your puppies?". Perfectly acceptable later in the conversation, but , please, not the first or second question ;). Anyway, good luck in your search for a puppy.

Theresa
2nd March 2008, 08:48 PM
Good advice Bruce. I was recently looking for an adult cav for my parents and I was put in touch with a breeder who was looking to rehome some of her unwanted/needed bitches.

Knowing how breeders like someone who asks questions, I tried this but she just cut me off. She wasn't interested in my questions at all. When I asked about heart certificates she said she didn't have them for these 2 bitches but did have their mother and grandmother there and they had them. We didn't go with her as I had a bad feeling but can I ask the breeders - do you always get your dogs checked or only if you will be definately be breeding from them?

WoodHaven
2nd March 2008, 09:28 PM
Good advice Bruce. I was recently looking for an adult cav for my parents and I was put in touch with a breeder who was looking to rehome some of her unwanted/needed bitches.

Knowing how breeders like someone who asks questions, I tried this but she just cut me off. She wasn't interested in my questions at all. When I asked about heart certificates she said she didn't have them for these 2 bitches but did have their mother and grandmother there and they had them. We didn't go with her as I had a bad feeling but can I ask the breeders - do you always get your dogs checked or only if you will be definately be breeding from them?
************************************************** ****

My protocol is yearly for those getting bred-- those that are pets get them at age 2, if clear I skipped to age 4, age *5*(I want to know who is clear at 5-- I tell their breeder what their status is) then I have been doing it yearly anyway.

Cathryn
2nd March 2008, 11:37 PM
Good advice Bruce. I was recently looking for an adult cav for my parents and I was put in touch with a breeder who was looking to rehome some of her unwanted/needed bitches.

Knowing how breeders like someone who asks questions, I tried this but she just cut me off. She wasn't interested in my questions at all. When I asked about heart certificates she said she didn't have them for these 2 bitches but did have their mother and grandmother there and they had them. We didn't go with her as I had a bad feeling but can I ask the breeders - do you always get your dogs checked or only if you will be definately be breeding from them?


Hmm, NOT good!! Personnally I have all mine checked at 1 and 2 years, then breeding bitches annually, and pet bitches every other year, as Sandy has already said ALL dogs checked at 5 years old anyway, gives me a good indication on my breeding programme, all bar 1 dog here I have bred myself anyway!! :rolleyes:

I would always discourage buying a pup online, there have been too many instances of money changing hands (and I am not just talking for dogs here either!) and the buyer receiving either nothing at all or in the worst scenario something so far from what they were expecting it's just untrue!! Buyer beware!!

Cathy T
4th March 2008, 12:35 AM
has anyone bought their puppy online and had good luck?


Absolutely and unequivocably not a recommended practice. I prefer not to roll the dice when it comes to health of a Cavalier....and buying online is a roll of the dice....you might get lucky but the odds are against you.

luvzcavs
6th March 2008, 04:00 AM
perhaps if you look up puppy mills and look at some of the pictures alone you will be detered from even thinking about purchasing a pup online ? I would be almost 99.9% sure that is the environment your pup will come from if purchased online.
I think you need to educate yourself a lot before going any further with your thoughts on buying a pup. I had never had a pet before let alone a precious cavalier puppy but I new enough not to buy from a pet shop or online, even then I thought registered papers were enough and in some respects I still got stung. Invest the time as it will be well worth it in the long run and save you a lot of money and heartache. Good luck with your search and enjoy learning :) but please please don't buy online.

Bridam
6th March 2008, 04:01 AM
I couldn't imagine buying a puppy without meeting her first.

WoodHaven
6th March 2008, 04:20 AM
I am going to preface this with IN MY OPINION

A conscientious breeders usually has one or two breeds. It is difficult to study and do well at one.

They CHIC or at least have current (within the year) documentation of health exams for heart by a board certified cardiologist, eyes by ophthalmologist, HIPS checked (at least prelimed) OFA, Patella by vet.

They want to meet the new owners. At least discuss how and where they will be living. They will openly discuss the MVD and SM issues for the breed.

Cavaliers are expensive to breed correctly.... they will be about 2000.00USD (plus or minus a bit).

I swore I was not going to make any more comments on the subject. But having picked up 3 byb rescues this week has made me perturbed, grouchy, and more than a bit 'anti byb'. fwiw

Karlin
6th March 2008, 04:39 AM
My opinion is that there's online and then there's online. Many reputable breeders have websites and list their available dogs online. Many reputable breeders -- including some who are some of the most dedicated in fighting puppy millers/farmers -- also list on some of the general puppy breeder listing sites precisely because they feel it is very important for reputable breeders to be visible, available to answer questions, and not let the backyard breeders take over these sites and be seen as the norm in breeding. However very few breeders using sites like puppyfind, puppydogweb, pups4you etc are good breeders. Almost all of these are brokers/BYBs/mills and need to be fully scrutinised and asked for proof of health certs etc. I cannot emphasise this enough!

Nonetheless, somewhere in this section many months ago, I posted a very interesting argument written for one of the dog publications asking breeders why they do not more actively use the web to counter letting the disreputables own this space. It is quite thought provoking.

I also think it is not necessarily a problem to take a puppy that you have not met. A breeder of repute will have quality, health-bred puppies. Many good breeders either ship puppies or allow them to be collected and flown to their new home by the family. But most breeders willing to ship puppies as long as you are willing to send payment are NOT reputable breeders (again, see above!).

As a general rule the vast majority of internet sellers at this time are either brokers, puppy millers or backyard breeders. There are a whole range of red flags that make this obvious to an experienced eye but they know most do not know what to look for. Indeed many are very adept of sounding like they do all the right things to people who have done research but don;t know how to differentiate what these people say from what a good breeder would do. A good example is saying:


I heart test all my dogs annually with my vet
my puppies are guaranteed clear of genetic problems and are checked by my vet before shipping
my dogs are from champion English and Irish stock
my lines are free of MVD


1) this means little. The dogs need to be cardiologist tested but they know this makes it SOUND like they 'heart test'
2) no puppies can be guaranteed free of genetic problems and many vets are in a profitable arrangement with BYBs and millers and routinely rubber stamp vet checks -- and a vet check on a young puppy from an excellent vet only means the puppy is OK at that moment, not 'guaranteed free of genetic problems'
3) about every cavalier eventually is from English or Irish champions if you go back enough generations -- most have some within three generations. Reputable breeders don't make vague assertions like this, but BYBs do. You want quality dogs from reputable lines in all generations with actual kennel affixes, not dogs called "Molly's Boy" or "Frankie" on the pedigree
4) no one's lines anywhere are free from MVD. It is endemic in the breed; working with a reputable health focused breeder who knows his/her lines and heart history is the best way to get the healthiest puppy you can and ALSO, just as important, support the future of the breed. Mills and BYBs and pet owners breeding 'just one litter' are the main reasons so many of our dogs get early onset MVD

I could list many more! Buying a puppy online is not like finding a bargain on eBay, comparison shopping for a car, etc... unfortunately this can be hard to understand for the newcomer (it was for me til I really began to read and read and read!) and the learning curve can be very steep when people end up with sickly puppies and dealing with some truly vile people. There's a good video pinned in this section on why buying online can be very risky -- and tragic.